Kildare case. Restricted shotgun.

Uinseann_16

Glass fused light wrote: »

Dumb question but would anyone join or weld two barrels together to fix a defective one?

Quite simple cut a 20" rifle barrel back to 18" to fix the crown, then thread it and permanently attach a muzzle device to brink it back to the 20";)

Grizzly 45

Also there are already 18 inch barrelled shotguns available here in Ireland for the last 80 years. Namely the old Winchester RIC 1897 riot guns. They moved to the restricted category in 2008.The difference being between them and the same concept 80 years on??

Also of note is,The act states "shortens"[The critical word in the whole paragraph] a barrel.It says nothing of , ,acquiring,purchasing, replacing, refitting or legally acquiring a gun with a barrel shorter than 61 cms as committing a crime Obviously this was intended to catch criminals chopping down shotguns into whippets, and didn't take into account that there are factory replacements or custom made shorter barrels out there already.


(6) It is an offence for a person (except a registered firearms dealer) to possess without lawful authority or reasonable excuse—

a) a shot-gun the barrel of which is less than 61 centimetres in length

Ergo,if it is licensed as a restricted firearm...There is your lawful authority.

gunny123

Glass fused light wrote: »

Dumb question but would anyone join or weld two barrels together to fix a defective one?

I used to be a coded welder, done a lot of tig welding for the pharma and engineering industries, but have been away from that level for a while now, thank god.

Welding a barrel ? I would have to say at first glance i'd say no way, shotgun barrels are usually en19/aisi 4140 steel, some brands like Beretta have their own steel concoctions though. Some cheap guns are made from little more than mild steel, which are thicker, to make up for the weaker material.

However doing a search on welding that steel, it can be done, with preheating to a specific temperature, welded with a recommended filler rod, and once welded, cooled slowly in a controlled way. The joint would also have to be backpurged with gas, You would then have to dress the weld someway, easy on the outside but difficult on the inside, depending on where the join is.

Where you weld you could have distortion, more than likely. Shotgun barrels are very thin, about 30 thou/.76mm outside the breech and choke areas, so very easy to warp.

Finally the welding might leave the weld area very hard and brittle, needing further heat treatment, which would be difficult and expensive.

So could it be done ? Probably, but it would be iffy, difficult and expensive. Newer types of welding like lazer welding might be able to do it and avoid some of the problems.

Uinseann_16

Cut the barrel into pieces stack em TIG weld the billet add some more steel(ok alot more steel) and create a pattern welded or "damascus" steel billet draw out the billet to a useable length and use a lathe to cut the bore and chamber:pac:

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

I
So could it be done? Probably, but it would be iffy, difficult and expensive. Newer types of welding like laser welding might be able to do it and avoid some of the problems.

And all of this costs? So somehow I can't see Johnny Joe, gun dealer, and by default of law gunsmith, either having the skill set, equipment, time or actual, need and reason to "repair" rifle or shotgun barrels the way we are thinking. There is also the slight matter of is the gun in proof,or up to even CIP stds after such. Also,as a gun dealer, you would be responsible for any faulty repairs blowing out as well that you signed off on.Be sort of like a main dealer after "fixing" your dodgy brakes letting you out and you end up in the shop front across the road.:eek:

This legislation really makes no sense, unless you look at it in the context of the preceding paragraphs of short-barreled shotguns and rifles. That maybe it is there to allow a gunsmith to add on things like muzzle breaks or choke tubes,etc to bring your previously unrestricted Short Barrelled Shotgun or Short Barrelled Rifle out of the Restricted class of things,and as bureaucrats who drew up this legislation had zero clue about the mechanics of doing such, worded it in broad general brush strokes,like the "shortens" word in the previous paragraph's.That's the only logical conclusion I can draw from this legislative mess.

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And all of this costs? So somehow I can't see Johnny Joe, gun dealer, and by default of law gunsmith, either having the skill set, equipment, time or actual, need and reason to "repair" rifle or shotgun barrels the way we are thinking.

Whatever about your chances of welding a bit of a barrel onto a shotgun to build it back up to the required length, it would be nigh-on impossible to do that with a rifle. Impossible task to realign the rifling perfectly.

Hard to explain this next part below but what exactly does built back up mean?

Supposing a gunsmith had to cut the last 3 inches off my shotgun barrel because of damage. Could he then permanently affix a larger 4 inch pipe to the end of the barrel in such a way that it just extends the overall length of the firearm permanently but isn't actually part of the barrel. In other words, it's much wider than the barrel and therefore doesn't impact the slug or shot. It wouldn't affect the proof of the barrel either I think. Not that I'd ever do this but would this be acceptable?

gunny123

BattleCorp wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And all of this costs? So somehow I can't see Johnny Joe, gun dealer, and by default of law gunsmith, either having the skill set, equipment, time or actual, need and reason to "repair" rifle or shotgun barrels the way we are thinking.

Whatever about your chances of welding a bit of a barrel onto a shotgun to build it back up to the required length, it would be nigh-on impossible to do that with a rifle. Impossible task to realign the rifling perfectly.

Hard to explain this next part below but what exactly does built back up mean?

Supposing a gunsmith had to cut the last 3 inches off my shotgun barrel because of damage. Could he then permanently affix a larger 4 inch pipe to the end of the barrel in such a way that it just extends the overall length of the firearm permanently but isn't actually part of the barrel. In other words, it's much wider than the barrel and therefore doesn't impact the slug or shot. It wouldn't affect the proof of the barrel either I think. Not that I'd ever do this but would this be acceptable?

Barrel sleeving i would think, when the barrels are chopped off at the breech and new tubes sweated in ?

Uinseann_16

BattleCorp wrote: »

Whatever about your chances of welding a bit of a barrel onto a shotgun to build it back up to the required length, it would be nigh-on impossible to do that with a rifle. Impossible task to realign the rifling perfectly.

Hard to explain this next part below but what exactly does built back up mean?

Supposing a gunsmith had to cut the last 3 inches off my shotgun barrel because of damage. Could he then permanently affix a larger 4 inch pipe to the end of the barrel in such a way that it just extends the overall length of the firearm permanently but isn't actually part of the barrel. In other words, it's much wider than the barrel and therefore doesn't impact the slug or shot. It wouldn't affect the proof of the barrel either I think. Not that I'd ever do this but would this be acceptable?

Overly thinking this imo, Surely a permanently mounted muzzle device counts towards the length of the barrel a gunsmith could put a tack weld a compensator on to the barrel to regain length.
This is constantly done in the US to meet NFA regulation of barrel length
For a shotgun surely you could mount on of those Cutts compensators you see on some older remmy semi autos etc...:pac:

Walter Mittys Brother

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

This is constantly done in the US to meet NFA regulation of barrel length

This ain't US though.

Grizzly 45

It was done, and is acceptable in the UK, to change the barrel length to move it from whatever section. [OI Tac !:) where are you?].Seen it done with the UK SPAS12 shotguns. They are 20 ins default and have a permanently affixed 4in cylinder bore. TBH properly heat welded on with solder or whatever makes it permanent and the PTB measure from breech face to muzzle. So so long as it cant be unscrewed by hand pressure.It's good to go.

Sleeving wouldn't be by itself strong enough to keep a barrel together.All that is is a thin wall metal tube that is welded into the barrel to keep the shot pattern together on a rough and shot out barrel..No way is it strong enough to keep two pieces flush together.