DHL overcharging.. see mod warning post #74

spix

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

You are wrong. The issue belongs with the suppliers. If they do their job correctly, then DHL can use the values on the commercial invoice. End of story.

When you know you're beat and have no answer, just copy paste your last comment and hope nobody notices :P



You're the one that's wrong. They're both issues but the one on DHL's side is much more serious.



It's easy to understand why the shipping value might not be declared when you understand how shipping in China works.

However its not easy to understand why DHL are choosing to calculate the shipping value based on ireland->china rates rather than china->ireland rates which would naturally make much more sense. Actually scratch that, it is easy to understand.



End of story.

RUDOLF289

spix wrote: »

When you know you're beat and have no answer, just copy paste your last comment and hope nobody notices :P



You're the one that's wrong. They're both issues but the one on DHL's side is much more serious.



It's easy to understand why the shipping value might not be declared when you understand how shipping in China works.

However its not easy to understand why DHL are choosing to calculate the shipping value based on ireland->china rates rather than china->ireland rates which would naturally make much more sense. Actually scratch that, it is easy to understand.



End of story.

You are wrong. The issue belongs with the suppliers. If they do their job correctly, then DHL can use the values on the commercial invoice. End of story.

spix

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

You are wrong. The issue belongs with the suppliers. If they do their job correctly, then DHL can use the values on the commercial invoice. End of story.

I can agree with part of your statement, the part which says

You are wrong.

RUDOLF289

spix wrote: »

I can agree with part of your statement, the part which says

You are wrong.

You are wrong. The issue belongs with the suppliers. If they do their job correctly, then DHL can use the values on the commercial invoice. End of story.

spix

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

You are wrong. The issue belongs with the suppliers. If they do their job correctly, then DHL can use the values on the commercial invoice. End of story.

I can't argue with these new points you brought up. You win.

What's that DHL, you won't give me my property until I pay 23% tax on an imaginary 100 euro shipping fee. Oh and I got duty now too? That's no problem, RUDOLF289 on boards.ie has clearly explained to me why its okay you're stealing money from me. It's not your fault, it's mine! Here you go, and there's a tip too. Have a nice day

RUDOLF289

spix wrote: »

I can't argue with these new points you brought up. You win.

What's that DHL, you won't give me my property until I pay 23% tax on an imaginary 100 euro shipping fee. Oh and I got duty now too? That's no problem, RUDOLF289 on boards.ie has clearly explained to me why its okay you're stealing money from me. It's not your fault, it's mine! Here you go, and there's a tip too. Have a nice day

Just to rectify the libellous and completely unfounded allegation that I have explained that DHL is stealing money.

I have produced the regulations that apply to the manner in which Customs Value is arrived at. All you have produced is unfounded and and mis interpreted conjecture.

I suggest, if you want to discuss this with me in person, give me a call. I will PM you my mobile nr. Feel free to ring it any time!

Cheers,
Rudolf289

spix

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

Just to rectify the libellous and completely unfounded allegation that I have explained that DHL is stealing money.

I have produced the regulations that apply to the manner in which Customs Value is arrived at. All you have produced is unfounded and and mis interpreted conjecture.

I suggest, if you want to discuss this with me in person, give me a call. I will PM you my mobile nr. Feel free to ring it any time!

Cheers,
Rudolf289

Nothing to discuss and I don't like the way this thread has been overtaken yet some people like to jump to DHL's defense no matter how obviously in the wrong they are. I hope OP gets their money back from DHL since DHL was not the original courier.

What DHL does when shipping isn't declared has been well known for years now. You have produced the regulations and all it does is prove that DHL have chosen to calculate the cost based on the reverse journey which happens to be much more expensive. We can all guess as to why they have chosen to do that but when you have the ability to compare the prices, I think it is self explanatory. They are allowed to do it according to the info you provided but that does not mean it is right!

RUDOLF289

spix wrote: »

Nothing to discuss and I don't like the way this thread has been overtaken yet some people like to jump to DHL's defense no matter how obviously in the wrong they are. I hope OP gets their money back from DHL since DHL was not the original courier.

What DHL does when shipping isn't declared has been well known for years now. You have produced the regulations and all it does is prove that DHL have chosen to calculate the cost based on the reverse journey which happens to be much more expensive. We can all guess as to why they have chosen to do that but when you have the ability to compare the prices, I think it is self explanatory. They are allowed to do it according to the info you provided but that does not mean it is right!

Me, being one of the "some people" you refer to, I don't defend DHL. But I do call people out when they make unfounded, incorrect statements. Your allegation that DHL is stealing is simply outrageous. Never mind that you can not back them up with hard facts.

Your interpretation of the DHL Hong Kong tariff is wrong.

You have not produced an export tariff, yet you claim that the export tariff is more expensive than the inbound tariff.

You allege that DHL is committing fraud and that they serve their self interest by inflating the shipping cost.

By extention you allege that Customs is at a minimum gullible, or worse, that they are actively working with DHL to perpetrate a fraud on Irish importers.

I am in awe of your audacity!

I will come back on this matter ......

spix

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

Me, being one of the "some people" you refer to, I don't defend DHL. But I do call people out when they make unfounded, incorrect statements. Your allegation that DHL is stealing is simply outrageous. Never mind that you can not back them up with hard facts.

Your interpretation of the DHL Hong Kong tariff is wrong.

You have not produced an export tariff, yet you claim that the export tariff is more expensive than the inbound tariff.

You allege that DHL is committing fraud and that they serve their self interest by inflating the shipping cost.

By extention you allege that Customs is at a minimum gullible, or worse, that they are actively working with DHL to perpetrate a fraud on Irish importers.

I am in awe of your audacity!

I will come back on this matter ......

That's not my 'interpretation' of the tariff...its clearly laid out on the pdf file and the reality is the price people pay is even lower . Whens the last time you used DHL HK? Clearly never because you seem to think, like whiterebel, that low cost express shipping is impossible.

How can I back up anything more than I already have? What do you want? A written admission from DHL and then maybe you'll see what's going on here? Just use common sense please. What DHL does is legal but that doesn't mean customers are meant to agree with the advantageous behaviour which in my opinion yes is practically stealing. It's like Apple eventually being caught slowing down old iphones. Big companies do things like this but they'll have themselves covered so its pointless to do anything but accept it.


What about the audacity of DHL to do this? Smh

RUDOLF289

spix wrote: »

That's not my 'interpretation' of the tariff...its clearly laid out on the pdf file and the reality is the price people pay is even lower . Whens the last time you used DHL HK? Clearly never because you seem to think, like whiterebel, that low cost express shipping is impossible.

How can I back up anything more than I already have? What do you want? A written admission from DHL and then maybe you'll see what's going on here? Just use common sense please. What DHL does is legal but that doesn't mean customers are meant to agree with the advantageous behaviour which in my opinion yes is practically stealing. It's like Apple eventually being caught slowing down old iphones. Big companies do things like this but they'll have themselves covered so its pointless to do anything but accept it.


What about the audacity of DHL to do this? Smh

I ship from China on a very regular basis. Actually, I am in the process of arranging a 20kg sample from Shenzhen to Melbourne on behalf of one of my clients here in Ireland. Having already arranged 2 shipments for the same client ex Shenzhen to Melbourne in the last 10 days. I am involved in that type of business on a regular basis.

Therefore I am well aware of how low actual prices are in China. And, yet again you are quite happy to make a wholly inaccurate statement that is not bourne out by the facts. Also, you continue to ignore the fact that I am in this industry for 40+ years and I have learned a few things along the way.

What is being paid in Hong Kong or China is really immaterial. You pointed out yourself that shipments are possibly handled by a number of parties before they are handed to DHL. Each party will add something to the price that the supplier pays ultimately. That is impossible for Customs or indeed DHL to figure out.

As I have stated many times before, if the supplier fails or neglects to add the freight cost as a seperate line item on his paperwork, he penalises the importer, who ends up with a higher duty and VAT outlay as a result of the supplier's negligence.

I have reached out to 2 of my agents in Hong Kong and I expect to have their response later this morning. They will advise me on the correct interpretation of the DHL Hong Kong tariff.

I will also speak to DHL here in Ireland and I will establish ;

1. What tariff they work off for import parcel shipments from Hong Kong
and
2. What their export tariff is to Hong Kong

I will get them in writing and I will post them in this thread.

On a personal note, I resent the fact that you make accusations against me personally. I have been contributing to boards.ie since 2009 in relation to imports from China. I do so in a fair and balanced manner and go out of my way to be helpfull. Call me old fashioned but I think some of your personal comments are inappropriate.

I will come back on these issues and I will make sure they are based on facts.

spix

RUDOLF289 wrote: »

I ship from China on a very regular basis. Actually, I am in the process of arranging a 20kg sample from Shenzhen to Melbourne on behalf of one of my clients here in Ireland. Having already arranged 2 shipments for the same client ex Shenzhen to Melbourne in the last 10 days. I am involved in that type of business on a regular basis.

Therefore I am well aware of how low actual prices are in China. And, yet again you are quite happy to make a wholly inaccurate statement that is not bourne out by the facts. Also, you continue to ignore the fact that I am in this industry for 40+ years and I have learned a few things along the way.

What is being paid in Hong Kong or China is really immaterial. You pointed out yourself that shipments are possibly handled by a number of parties before they are handed to DHL. Each party will add something to the price that the supplier pays ultimately. That is impossible for Customs or indeed DHL to figure out.

As I have stated many times before, if the supplier fails or neglects to add the freight cost as a seperate line item on his paperwork, he penalises the importer, who ends up with a higher duty and VAT outlay as a result of the supplier's negligence.

I have reached out to 2 of my agents in Hong Kong and I expect to have their response later this morning. They will advise me on the correct interpretation of the DHL Hong Kong tariff.

I will also speak to DHL here in Ireland and I will establish ;

1. What tariff they work off for import parcel shipments from Hong Kong
and
2. What their export tariff is to Hong Kong

I will get them in writing and I will post them in this thread.

On a personal note, I resent the fact that you make accusations against me personally. I have been contributing to boards.ie since 2009 in relation to imports from China. I do so in a fair and balanced manner and go out of my way to be helpfull. Call me old fashioned but I think some of your personal comments are inappropriate.

I will come back on this issues and I will make sure they are based on facts.

Export prices are here http://www.dhl.ie/content/dam/downloads/ie/Express/shipping/rate_guides/express_service_rate_guide_ie_en.pdf Page 19, HK+China are both Zone 7.

It clearly says on DHLs website they work off the export rate to country of origin -30% so no need to ask that.



I know it would be difficult for DHL to know for sure how much you paid without it being declared but the main issue is again, that they calculate their price based on export when you are importing. It makes no sense whatsoever from the point of actually trying to guess what you paid. However it does make sense from a $$$ point of view. You should obviously look at country of origin export rates to Ireland if you are looking for a relatively accurate estimation but they don't do that.

I don't know how much your agent is charging compared to those HK prices but it should be even lower, I don't understand why you seem to think the HK pdf prices are incorrect. Those are most certainly the official full price fees.

whiterebel

Mod: I’m temporarily closing this as there are some serious allegations being thrown around. Ive reported it so another mod can have a look at it, as I’ve already contributed to it.

Nody

Mod:
I've reviewed the thread and I'm going to keep this fairly simple and straight forward. Spix you've constantly derailed this thread and refused to listen to any evidence showing how you are wrong. You've ignored the point of where the 15 EUR fee is coming from, ignored other couriers using, ignored people with actual experience in international shipping telling you and showing you that you are wrong. In short you're not arguing but soapboxing about how evil DHL is and wasting everyone's time.

Due to this consider yourself thread banned and if you continue to soapbox about the evils of DHL while ignoring the facts put to you this will result in cards. To the rest of the users please return to OPs topic though based on the posts it seems unlikely to be much to add at this time. If someone wishes to debate the cost of the fee/basis for transport cost topic please feel free to open a new thread on the respective topic rather than continue the debate in this thread.

spix

Nody wrote: »

Mod:
I've reviewed the thread and I'm going to keep this fairly simple and straight forward. Spix you've constantly derailed this thread and refused to listen to any evidence showing how you are wrong. You've ignored the point of where the 15 EUR fee is coming from, ignored other couriers using, ignored people with actual experience in international shipping telling you and showing you that you are wrong. In short you're not arguing but soapboxing about how evil DHL is and wasting everyone's time.

Due to this consider yourself thread banned and if you continue to soapbox about the evils of DHL while ignoring the facts put to you this will result in cards. To the rest of the users please return to OPs topic though based on the posts it seems unlikely to be much to add at this time. If someone wishes to debate the cost of the fee/basis for transport cost topic please feel free to open a new thread on the respective topic rather than continue the debate in this thread.

As you wish nody however you seem to be under the impression I don't have any experience with international shipments? Don't worry, I have no intention of talking about this again as I'm confident in all my points being accurate, you and others can of course disagree. From what I can see in this thread I'm the only one who actually seeked to find OPs issue rather than make excuses for why they are being charged. OP has shown proof the parcel was never actually carried by DHL so they are now trying to figure out why they were charged. This is separate all together with the derailing I agree but these things happen

CeilingFly

Lets give Spix the benefit of the doubt.


1kg shipment from HongKong to Ireland using Spix's link to DHL HK pricelist = HK$648. At current exchange rate thats €71.12
(note that air shipments are calculated by volume weight, so even if the item is 200g, the chances are the volumetric weight is at least 1kg.)


For Ireland to HongKong for the identical size package, the rate is 97.65. Deduct 30% and you get 68.35 LOWER that using the published HK tariff.

Two other points.

1 - Every exporter knows very well that an invoice should be attached with goods description, delivery fee and total paid. Hence any overcharging on import duty is solely the fault of the shipper.

2. Spix, just jumped in here. He/she is not the OP and is in reality simply trolling and seems to want to blame someone else for some previous error he or the person shipping to him made.

spix

CeilingFly wrote: »

Lets give Spix the benefit of the doubt.


1kg shipment from HongKong to Ireland using Spix's link to DHL HK pricelist = HK$648. At current exchange rate thats €71.12
(note that air shipments are calculated by volume weight, so even if the item is 200g, the chances are the volumetric weight is at least 1kg.)


For Ireland to HongKong for the identical size package, the rate is 97.65. Deduct 30% and you get 68.35 LOWER that using the published HK tariff.

Two other points.

1 - Every exporter knows very well that an invoice should be attached with goods description, delivery fee and total paid. Hence any overcharging on import duty is solely the fault of the shipper.

2. Spix, just jumped in here. He/she is not the OP and is in reality simply trolling and seems to want to blame someone else for some previous error he or the person shipping to him made.

You are not reading the HK prices properly. I've already addressed this, look properly. Ireland is considered Zone 1 for standard DHL Express = 265HKD = 29 euro. Again these are just official prices and reality is the cost is even lower.
Your comment on volume weight being 5x the weight is way off too unless you are talking about pillows? If the courier divides the volume by 5000 I generally find most parcels will be a maximum of 2x volume over actual weight, most are closer, a few are equal.
As Nody said, stop going off topic please. And if you do at least post something accurate and look at previous posts. This is my last comment on this.

Nody

Mod:
Look I don't want to have to issue cards here (arguing with mod decision on thread definitely falls under the section of the "Don't do this ****" category of things); this is the last warning to all posters. Read the earlier warning, stick to it or if you wish to continue arguing the point (which is not related to the OP) then please do so in a new thread.

spix

ozmo wrote: »

Item was from Banggood - they shipped it next day - I chose tracked postage for an extra 6 euros.
Seems came from China to NL via "Shipping Method: NL Post Tracked" - I received it from a very large DHL courier van in Dublin.

2018-04-23 16:40 DUBLIN, DELIVERED
2018-04-20 12:12 DUBLIN, ITEM IN DEPOT
2018-04-20 12:06 DUBLIN, ATTEMPTED DELIVERY, NO ANSWER AT ADDRESS
2018-04-20 10:49 DUBLIN, ATTEMPTED DELIVERY, NO ANSWER AT ADDRESS
2018-04-20 07:57 DUBLIN, ITEM IS ON DELIVERY
2018-04-19 15:54 DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12, ITEM HAS BEEN ACCEPTED
2018-04-19 15:54 DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12, ITEM IS IN TRANSIT
2018-04-19 15:54 DUBLIN MAIL CENTRE, DUBLIN 12, ITEM RECEIVED
Origin : Netherlands - Tracking consuming: 10364 ms
2018-04-23 16:40 The item has been delivered successfully
2018-04-20 10:49 The delivery of the item was unsuccessful
2018-04-20 07:57 Receive item at delivery office (Inb)
2018-04-19 15:54 The item has been processed in the country of destination
2018-04-18 09:54 The item has arrived in the country of destination
2018-04-11 17:38 The item is on transport to the country of destination
2018-04-11 16:21 The item is at the PostNL sorting center
2018-04-11 16:21 The item is processed at the PostNL sorting center

Order Submitted Apr/08/2018 18:11:54
Order Processing Apr/08/2018 18:13:26
Shipped Apr/09/2018 06:06:12

Did you get any explanation from DHL yet? Very curious to see what happens. I can't think of any reason why DHL should be allowed to charge you 40 euro when it was actually a regular post item. Your max charge should be ~20 euro which includes tax on the $51 total + an post handling fee.

CeilingFly

spix wrote: »

You are not reading the HK prices properly. I've already addressed this, look properly. Ireland is considered Zone 1 for standard DHL Express = 265HKD = 29 euro. Again these are just official prices and reality is the cost is even lower.
Your comment on volume weight being 5x the weight is way off too unless you are talking about pillows? If the courier divides the volume by 5000 I generally find most parcels will be a maximum of 2x volume over actual weight, most are closer, a few are equal.
As Nody said, stop going off topic please. And if you do at least post something accurate and look at previous posts. This is my last comment on this.

You are the one unable to read DHL service guide. Ireland is and always ahs been Zone 8. Service capability to Ireland is service level 1 which means that all products can be carried subject to various surcharges. Different service capability levels from 1-6 apply depending on destination. Lithium batteries would be an example. DHL will carry them on cargo planes, but to some places like Cyprus DHL use passenger planes for final leg and lithium batteries are not permitted - hence a different service capability level for cyprus

spix wrote: »

Did you get any explanation from DHL yet? Very curious to see what happens. I can't think of any reason why DHL should be allowed to charge you 40 euro when it was actually a regular post item. Your max charge should be ~20 euro which includes tax on the $51 total + an post handling fee.

Here's the explanation - https://www.logistics.dhl/mx-en/home/our-divisions/ecommerce/fulfillment/fulfillment-hong-kong.html

DHL do fulfilment service. They send bulk shipments to netherlands and that's first landing in Europe and that where eu customs entry takes place. After that it follows road service which brings down the price.

As far as I know, An Post do not have a customs operation in Netherlands.

spix

CeilingFly wrote: »

You are the one unable to read DHL service guide. Ireland is and always ahs been Zone 8. Service capability to Ireland is service level 1 which means that all products can be carried subject to various surcharges. Different service capability levels from 1-6 apply depending on destination. Lithium batteries would be an example. DHL will carry them on cargo planes, but to some places like Cyprus DHL use passenger planes for final leg and lithium batteries are not permitted - hence a different service capability level for cyprus



Here's the explanation - https://www.logistics.dhl/mx-en/home/our-divisions/ecommerce/fulfillment/fulfillment-hong-kong.html

DHL do fulfilment service. They send bulk shipments to netherlands and that's first landing in Europe and that where eu customs entry takes place. After that it follows road service which brings down the price.

As far as I know, An Post do not have a customs operation in Netherlands.

Have you ever used Netherlands post shipping option from China? I have, it comes with regular post. This is what DHL tracking looks like http://www.dhl.com.hk/en/express/tracking.html?AWB=5105623714&brand=DHL OP did not use DHL.

CeilingFly

spix wrote: »

Have you ever used Netherlands post shipping option from China? I have, it comes with regular post. This is what DHL tracking looks like http://www.dhl.com.hk/en/express/tracking.html?AWB=5105623714&brand=DHL OP did not use DHL.

OP did not ship the item - the seller did. the seller chose to send by dhl. The seller did not put correct details.

the seller is 100% to blame.

I get stuff delivered from DHL sent by Correos in Spain - it doesn't have DHL tracking.
In today's logistics world, different compnaies can handle and item, but only one is responsible for customs entry.

If the seller had properly put the information on the package, there would have been no issue - no use going around in circles and trying to make up rubbish.

I do note that you now seem to accept that you read the DHL pricing guide incorrectly and hence your previous argument about prices has been torn to shreds.

I'm out.

spix

CeilingFly wrote: »

OP did not ship the item - the seller did. the seller chose to send by dhl. The seller did not put correct details.

the seller is 100% to blame.

I get stuff delivered from DHL sent by Correos in Spain - it doesn't have DHL tracking.
In today's logistics world, different compnaies can handle and item, but only one is responsible for customs entry.

If the seller had properly put the information on the package, there would have been no issue - no use going around in circles and trying to make up rubbish.

I do note that you now seem to accept that you read the DHL pricing guide incorrectly and hence your previous argument about prices has been torn to shreds.

I'm out.

You are making stuff up.

NL post is not DHL. The tracking OP provided is typical of a NL post item which has passed through Irish customs without incurring any charges, the delivery failed due to no answer at the address. It was sent to a depot and re-delivered by DHL with wrong charges applied.

Regarding the HK DHL price list, that is not related to OPs issue so as advised by the moderator I am not discussing any further. But what you said is nonsensical.

Nody

Mod:
Ok; I gave warning TWICE on the thread to not take the off topic further and gave out an thread ban. Both issues ignored so two thumbs up to our lucky users who get cards and this thread is now closed instead.