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Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

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    #2102
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Buildings do fail due to fire, but there no documented history of high rise structural steel framed collapse of a full building prior to 9/11. Partial collapses have occurred , steel connections can fail, but right up to 9/11 it was found to be occurring in a select area of the building. Building seven, the claim is one failure in an specific area of the building, caused a rapid collapse of all steel connections across the entire full width of the building. Never occurred before 9/11 or after 9/11.
    No building has ever been demolished using secret demolition.
    No building has ever been demolished using thermite/thermate/nanothermite.
    No skyscraper has ever been demolished after it was hit by a jet liner, or had a skyscraper fall right next to it.
    No skyscraper has ever been demolished after it was hit by a jet liner, or had a skyscraper fall right next to it on the same day.

    Never occurred before 9/11 or after 9/11
    Therefore your pet theory has to be impossible.


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    #2103
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Wheres the proof there were Al Qaeda texts and materials in the airport baggage?

    Just posted, info from Dohnjoe link, go back.


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    #2104
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    When you find Al Qeada texts and materials in the airport baggage, then it obvious the men were hijackers who fled.

    Not necessarily. It might have been Arabic documents that someone confused with AQ texts, it could have been AQ related material (like news stories related to AQ). It could have been anything. It could have been AQ plans to use the plane as a weapon. It could have been nothing.

    The point is, you have no idea what it is. So your speculation is just a random layperson's speculation - it's absolutely meaningless.


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    #2105
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,454 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Just posted, info from Dohnjoe link, go back.

    Theres no proof there.


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    #2106
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Theres no proof there.

    ABC video provided watch it, this is all confirmed.


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    #2107
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Not necessarily. It might have been Arabic documents that someone confused with AQ texts, it could have been AQ related material (like news stories related to AQ). It could have been anything. It could have been AQ plans to use the plane as a weapon. It could have been nothing.

    The point is, you have no idea what it is. So your speculation is just a random layperson's speculation - it's absolutely meaningless.

    Bit of consequence- four middle eastern men be on departure flight early in the morning of 9/11 and that are not part of the plot? Spencer confirmed  AL Qeada and box cutters were discovered in the baggage. FBI declined to talk 10 years later, because questions will be asked as to why was there no nationwide manhunt to track them down and arrest them? Hijackers purchased tickets for the flight, so tracking them down would not be problematic. All flights got shut down on 9/11, so they'll have no way to get out of the country. 


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    #2108
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Spencer confirmed  AL Qeada and box cutters were discovered in the baggage.
    Well if the entirety of Al Qaeda was discovered in the luggage...


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    #2109
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    King Mob wrote: »
    No building has ever been demolished using secret demolition.
    No building has ever been demolished using thermite/thermate/nanothermite.
    No skyscraper has ever been demolished after it was hit by a jet liner, or had a skyscraper fall right next to it.
    No skyscraper has ever been demolished after it was hit by a jet liner, or had a skyscraper fall right next to it on the same day.

    Never occurred before 9/11 or after 9/11
    Therefore your pet theory has to be impossible.

    The physical evidence shows something else though. Debunkers continue to overlook the melted A36 steel flange. Debunkers still claim the steel only weakened, the construction. FEMA early in 2002 revealed a new phenomenon not seen before in office fire, that some steel members had softened and melted.


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    #2110
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    The physical evidence shows something else though. Debunkers  continue to overlook the melted A36 steel flange. Debunkers still claim the steel only weakened, the construction. FEMA early in 2002 revealed a new phenomenon not seen before in office fire, that some steel members had softened and melted.
    But again:

    Steel members softening and melting is not something that has ever been seen before in a demolition of any kind.

    So the theory you subscribe to has to be impossible.


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    #2111
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Bit of consequence- four middle eastern men be on departure flight early in the morning of 9/11 and that are not part of the plot?

    Coincidence.

    Hundreds, if not thousands of men of Arabic descent were on flights that morning. Maybe these particular men were part of a plot, maybe they weren't. Boxcutters and other potential lethal implements were discovered on multiple flights, because just about every commercial passenger flight in the US was searched. That's what a search on any other day would have turned up back then.

    There are low details on the Flight 23 incident. The FBI has investigated it (or not)

    Your opinion on that matter is meaningless because a) you are relying on second-hand speculation and b) you aren't the FBI


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    #2112
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    King Mob wrote: »
    But again:

    Steel members softening and melting is not something that has ever been seen before in a demolition of any kind.

    So the theory you subscribe to has to be impossible.

    You forget again that's why the micro-sized red/grey nano-thermite discovery in the WTC dust, is important. Thermatic materials- when ignited discharge a high blast of heat- enough to cause steel to melt. 
    The majority of office fires are in the range of 500c to 600c.- too low to begin melting steel. 


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    #2113
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    You forget again that's why the micro-sized red/grey nano-thermite discovery in the WTC dust, is important. Thermatic materials- when ignited discharge a high blast of heat- enough to cause steel to melt. 
    . 
    I didn't forget. It's just not true. It's been shown to you why it's not true.

    However there are no examples of "micro-sized red/grey nano-thermite" being found in any demolition
    There are no examples of "Thermatic materials- when ignited discharge a high blast of heat" during a demolition.

    So your own argument proves for a fact that your theory is false.


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    #2114
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,454 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    ABC video provided watch it, this is all confirmed.

    Nope, a loose unsubstantiated claim is confirmed.

    There is no proof.


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    #2115
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Coincidence.

    Hundreds, if not thousands of men of Arabic descent were on flights that morning. Maybe these particular men were part of a plot, maybe they weren't. Boxcutters and other potential lethal implements were discovered on multiple flights, because just about every commercial passenger flight in the US was searched. That's what a search on any other day would have turned up back then.

    There are low details on the Flight 23 incident. The FBI has investigated it (or not)

    Your opinion on that matter is meaningless because a) you are relying on second-hand speculation and b) you aren't the FBI

    I heard the first-hand information from the pilots who believed the men are hijackers. People who have completed the research behind the scenes talking to people in the know have stated Al Qaeda and Box cutters were discovered. Why is the FBI refusing to talk with ABC news about the event, if there nothing going on? You just downplay it, for your own reasons.


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    #2116
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    King Mob wrote: »
    I didn't forget. It's just not true. It's been shown to you why it's not true.

    However there are no examples of "micro-sized red/grey nano-thermite" being found in any demolition
    There are no examples of "Thermatic materials- when ignited discharge a high blast of heat" during a demolition.

    So your own argument proves for a fact that your theory is false.

    Debunkers claim its a primer paint?
    That's absurd because the red/gray chips ignite at 430c in the calorimeter. This is a scientific apparatus that can't lie, it doesn't care about one opinion is about 9/11.
    Red/gray chip ignited at 430c and discharged a white hot flame from within the chip.
    Thermite can not flare up at 430c temp. The only thermatic material known to ignite at this low temp, is revolutionary new military developed thermite called nanothermite. 


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    #2117
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Debunkers claim its a primer paint? 
    Again, it's not true. it's been explained to you.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    That's absurd because the red/gray chips ignite at 430c in the calorimeter. This is a scientific apparatus that can't lie, it doesn't care about one opinion is about 9/11.
    Red/gray chip ignited at 430c and discharged a white hot flame from within the chip.
    Thermite can not flare up at 430c temp. The only thermatic material known to ignite at this low temp, is revolutionary new military developed thermite called nanothermite. 
    But again:
    These chips have never been discovered at a demolition.
    Thermite has never been used in a demolition.
    There are no examples of "revolutionary new military developed thermite called nanothermite" being used for anything.
    Therefore your theory is impossible according to your own argument.


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    #2118
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    I heard the first-hand information from the pilots who believed the men are hijackers.

    You read the same story we did. The pilots were speculating. They claim they saw four arab men "looking suspicious" (like pretty much every arab on every flight that day).

    You don't have much more details than that. It's a speculative story. Maybe they were hijackers, maybe they weren't. I'm pretty sure the FBI would have investigated that lead, they may have found that the men were a bunch of M.E business men and that the AQ stuff found in the luggage was a book on M.E. terrorism and was unrelated.

    We don't know, you don't know. But you want to abuse the info to cast doubt on the event in any way possible

    That's how you treat all info and disinfo about this event. Anything to plant the idea that it was all some sort of conspiracy, and anything but detail that theory properly :)


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    #2119
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,454 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    You read the same story we did. The pilots were speculating. They claim they saw four arab men "looking suspicious" (like pretty much every arab on every flight that day).

    You don't have much more details than that. It's a speculative story. Maybe they were hijackers, maybe they weren't. I'm pretty sure the FBI would have investigated that lead, they may have found that the men were a bunch of M.E business men and that the AQ stuff found in the luggage was a book on M.E. terrorism and was unrelated.

    We don't know, you don't know. But you want to abuse the info to cast doubt on the event in any way possible

    That's how you treat all info and disinfo about this event. Anything to plant the idea that it was all some sort of conspiracy, and anything but detail that theory properly :)

    Remember the person who came out with this info was a flight attendant who wrote it in a book.

    For some reason, people prone to conspiracy theories tend to take anything written in a book - no matter what - as gospel.


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    #2120
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    King Mob wrote: »
    Again, it's not true. it's been explained to you.


    But again:
    These chips have never been discovered at a demolition.
    Thermite has never been used in a demolition.
    There are no examples of "revolutionary new military developed thermite called nanothermite" being used for anything.
    Therefore your theory is impossible according to your own argument.

    That's the debate.
    Why is there nanothermite evidence in the WTC dust samples?
    Clearly it did not land there on its own, someone put it there!
    Oystein claim on International Skeptic forums its a paint primer used to paint the steel surface.
    He still ignores the calorimeter experiment, showed the chip ignited at 430c,  and released a white-hot flame above 1500c to 3000c and when they checked the burned chips it had Iron microspheres.
    When you spot Iron Microspheres, you have evidence a thermatic reaction developed.
    Iron Microspheres are molten Iron balls/ spheres.


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    #2121
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    That's the debate.
    There's no debate. It's been debunked.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Why is there nanothermite evidence in the WTC dust samples?
    There wasn't any.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Clearly it did not land there on its own, someone put it there!
    Oystein claim on International Skeptic forums its a paint primer used to paint the steel surface.
    He still ignores the calorimeter experiment, showed the chip ignited at 430c,  and released a white-hot flame above 1500c to 3000c and when they checked the burned chips it had Iron microspheres.
    When you spot Iron Microspheres, you have evidence a thermatic reaction developed.
    Iron Microspheres are molten Iron balls/ spheres.
    But again, no Iron microspheres etc. etc. have ever been found in a demolition site.
    So therefore it can't be a demolition.


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    #2122
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    King Mob wrote: »
    There's no debate. It's been debunked.


    There wasn't any.

    But again, no Iron microspheres etc. etc. have ever been found in a demolition site.
    So therefore it can't be a demolition.


    It has not been debunked. There is also painted flakes in the WTC dust,  this is why there so much confusion around this topic. Skeptics are likely finding painted flakes and testing them and finding no thermatic properties. 

    Dr Milette the only scientist who ever challenged Harrit and team findings, he found no Iron microspheres after he burned his paint chip, it actually shifted to ash. Harrit red/gray chip did not turn to ash and there were Iron molten balls on the chips, after ignition. 


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    #2123
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    It has not been debunked.
    It has been.
    But we're not discussing that.

    I'm pointing out that your own argument is self contradictory.

    Please show us an example of a skyscraper that was demolished using thermite where they found iron microspheres and melted steel etc. etc.

    If you can't do that, then it means that your theory is impossible according to your own argument.


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    #2124
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Why is there nanothermite evidence in the WTC dust samples?

    There isn't evidence.

    If your house collapsed into rubble you'd find trace elements and compounds of many explosives. Hydrogen peroxide (in toilet bowl cleaner), Sodium nitrate (clog removers), Nitrocellulose (in certain cements), Ammonium nitrate (printer ink) and so on and so on

    It's a bunch of cranks combing through debris looking for any compound of any explosive so they can claim the buildings were blown up.


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    #2125
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    King Mob wrote: »
    It has been.
    But we're not discussing that.

    I'm pointing out that your own argument is self contradictory.

    Please show us an example of a skyscraper that was demolished using thermite where they found iron microspheres and melted steel etc. etc.

    If you can't do that, then it means that your theory is impossible according to your own argument.

    You are again disregarding the complexity surrounding this event.
    Red/gray chips should not be there in the dust. 
    Someone did not make this at home and bring it to work on 9/11.
    Nanothermite chips of this type can only be engineered by chemists who are engaged in the type of work and only known labs known to have tested nanothermite is 'Livermore National Labs. 
    Thermite can't ignite at 430c, it can't happen. Its reason the red/ gray chips are different.
    It was never used before 9/11 does not mean much. What matters there is clear, physical evidence this material substance was in the WTC powdered dust. 


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    #2126
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    It was never used before 9/11 does not mean much.
    But if it never happened before 9/11, then it is impossible.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Buildings do fail due to fire, but there no documented history of high rise structural steel framed collapse of a full building prior to 9/11.


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    #2127
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    King Mob wrote: »
    But if it never happened before 9/11, then it is impossible.

    The harrit experiments clear does show the red/gray chips are nano sized thermatic chips.  
    The fact FEMA found melted steel, make the Harrit and team  discovery more plausible. 

    FEMA is a crisis management US government agency and they also confirmed a new phenomenon happened on 9/11. Known of the fire experts expected to find cut out holes in the steel after an office fire. 


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    #2128
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,777 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    The harrit experiments

    Harrit? he's a truther and his stuff is pseudo-scientific bull****

    He was in a 2009 Danish interview claiming that there had been no forensic examination of 911, that there was no evidence and no one was charged. lol


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    #2129
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    The harrit experiments clear does show .... 
    But again, you've just shown that your explanation is impossible.
    No building has ever been demolished by thermite.

    So therefore, it can't have been a controlled demolition.

    Why are you arguing against your own logic?


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    #2130
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Harrit? he's a truther and his stuff is pseudo-scientific bull****

    He was in a 2009 Danish interview claiming that there had been no forensic examination of 911, that there was no evidence and no one was charged. lol

    Harrit is a chemist from Denmark. Who taught at a university.

    Someone who is more qualified than Skeptics online.

    By the way Harrit and many scientists asked Steve Jones for samples to test in early 2000s when they signed on and agreed with Steve Jones later, the attacks came. Debunkers just reject the evidence as doesn't fit in with their worldview. 


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    #2131
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Harrit is a chemist from Denmark. Who taught at a university.

    Someone who is more qualified than Skeptics online.
     
    Like Dr Judy Wood? :rolleyes:


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