Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

At most, it involves less than 15 men planting demo-charges maybe less. Then you have people in the black world the controllers ordering it. This is not involve thousands of people.

And remind us, how long did they need?
A weekend, right.

Also, you don't need that many people to fake Sandy Hook. Dunno why you're saying the government isn't involved in any conspiracies by denying they did Sandy Hook.

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

And remind us, how long did they need?
A weekend, right.

.

A team of scientists discovered nano thermite red/grey chips in dust samples. This evidence now given over to the grand jury in New York. They exist, but it down to the investigators to prove they are not nano-thermite chips.Even Skeptics agree they exist, but they claim there paint chips. Even though the paper claims the red/grey chips have identical properties and that virtually all the same size 100um. How those chips formed during a fire in the towers needs to be addressed and so far it hasn't been. The chips also ignite at low temps and jump to 1500c and leave behind a byproduct of Molten Iron microspheres.

There evidence in the literature nanothermite in some wet gel form can be painted onto steel. I read that, and thought how long would it take to be done if thats possible? A team painting this into steel over the weekend? or would it take longer? This would be nothing like placing demo charges (lot more work involved- but i don't rule out demo charges. I just discussing the explosive evidence the truthers claim they found in the dust.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

A team painting this into steel over the weekend? or would it take longer? This would be anything like placeing demo charges (lot more work involved- but i don't rule out demo charge. I just discussing the explosive evidence the truthers claim they found in the dust.

Yes, I'm asking you how long you think it took for this 15 man team to rig a skyscraper to implode.
A weekend?
A week?

Do you not know?

Also, Sandy Hook could have been planned and executed by a team of 15 people in a week. So why are you saying the government wasn't involved?
Why are you pretending like they never do false flags?

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, I'm asking you how long you think it took for this 15 man team to rig a skyscraper to implode.
A weekend?
A week?

Do you not know?

Also, Sandy Hook could have been planned and executed by a team of 15 people in a week. So why are you saying the government wasn't involved?
Why are you pretending like they never do false flags?

You have to know exactly what the used to explode the buildings.
Truther evidence for explosives involves nano thermite
It only evidence they found.
If talking about demo charges an 110 story building, weeks if not months. If they did it wirelessly and removed the wiring system less time. They would haved accessed the steel hat truss through the elevators shafts, they would not have wired offices with explosives and have wires running along walls.

I discuss conspiracies has evidence. Online speculation Sandy Hook was a false flag have no interest and after looking into it, official story is true.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

If talking about demo charges an 110 story building, weeks if not months. If they did it wirelessly and removed the wiring system less time.

So how long would it take?
How much less time?

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I discuss conspiracies has evidence. Online speculation Sandy Hook was a false flag have no interest and after looking into it, official story is true.

Sandy Hook has as much evidence as you do and as you've seen it's supported by your same arguments.

So why are you saying that the government doesn't do false flags?

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

So how long would it take?
How much less time?


Sandy Hook has as much evidence as you do and as you've seen it's supported by your same arguments.

So why are you saying that the government doesn't do false flags?

Not a demolition expert
I know the way they must do it.
The steel hat truss can only be accessed through a secure room and the elevator shafts
So they are bascially hidden from public sight.
We know the towers had elevators upgrades ongoing for years. So we know they can gain access this way.
The Elevator hired company went bust after 9/11 and disappeared, official record. Maybe something else going on there?
Time to rig explosives i be guessing. I know in 2001 explosives can be set off remotely by radio or by a wiring system.

Whats the evidence for Sandy Hook? What the government conspiracy? I provide plenty of evidence documentation and news articles and official testimony from FBI agents and others. But you keep on rocking thinking the 9/11 conspiracy evidence is weak sauce.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Not a demolition expert
I know the way they must do it.

But you know enough to know they only need 15 people?
How can you know that, but not how long it would take?

You must know something if you can declare how many people it would take.
So how long would it take.
It's a very easy question.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Whats the evidence for Sandy Hook? What the government conspiracy? I provide plenty of evidence documentation and news articles and official testimony from FBI agents and others. But you keep on rocking thinking the 9/11 conspiracy evidence is weak sauce.

Google it.

Also as stated before:

I just not naive conspiracies happen. Iran-Contra was a political conspiracy that involved Ronald Reagan when he was President. Press and media and public were unware of it.It did eventually come out, but most of what took place still hidden from the public.

They sold guns to terrorists in the middle east.
The proceeds send to rebel groups in South America.
The US government worked alongside the Mexican and Colombia cartels to smuggle drugs into the United States. They helped in exchange by moving guns to the rebels groups in South and Central America.
CIA even had an entire enterprise set up with airports, pilots and ships to move drugs for the cartels. Barry Seal story is just one example of the corruption.

So don't be claiming US government officials don't do conspiracies, thats false.

Sandy hook is the same thing, they are just more clever this time hiding the facts from the official media and public at large. There plenty of leaks like i explained before thats proves there was a hiddeen network involved in Sandy Hook. Adam Lanza was not the mastermind of Sandy Hook.

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

But you know enough to know they only need 15 people?
How can you know that, but not how long it would take?

You must know something if you can declare how many people it would take.
So how long would it take.
It's a very easy question.


Google it.

Also as stated before:

This is speculation.
Placing high explosive packet charges along 47 steel hat truss columns, is not time consuming. To place a packet charge just on the steel, takes a few minutes.
They are not doing the job to be precise, they just wanted to bring the building down the quickest way possible
Yes, cutting torches are often used to cut through steel and place the demolitions inside the steel columns, but they not trying to be careful here and save lives and property. Whoever did this knew lives would be lost.
There no need to bring in extra crew to break through walls and gain access to the steel.
Are they on tight schedule or they have time to do this?
They are out of sight doing their work- so plenty of time to do this.
15 men is speculation based on longer period of time. If its week job- you likely going to need 30+ people if not more to place explosives.

Some type of explosive used make sense. Since the concrete pulverised in mid air. Take concrete and try to break down into dust particles. The energy to break down concrete to dust in the air enormous. That can't be explained by fire or any natural event. There should be huge chunks of floor concrete falling away in the air, instead it turns to dust.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Not a demolition expert

Indeed. You aren't a demolition expert. And your "feeling" that these buildings were controlled demolitions is contradicted by actual experts.

You are again rehashing your disinfo from previous discussions, you aren't providing any supporting evidence, and you are basing your bizarre views on speculation and incredulity

Bonus: Lowenko and Sullivan incoming, watch this space

Dohnjoe

High quality shot of 911 from the Hudson, 1:45 for the collapse. Note all the demo charges going off.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

High quality shot of 911 from the Hudson, 1:45 for the collapse. Note all the demo charges going off.

If explosives were used it occurred inside the building not outside. The shock from the blasts would push steel, concrete and furniture sideways not downwards. It explains why all the steel got hurled hundreds of feet away in all directions sideways. You watching a top down building implosion.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed. You aren't a demolition expert. And your "feeling" that these buildings were controlled demolitions is contradicted by actual experts.

You are again rehashing your disinfo from previous discussions, you aren't providing any supporting evidence, and you are basing your bizarre views on speculation and incredulity

Bonus: Lowenko and Sullivan incoming, watch this space

You have posted this video before and I watched it. I went over every myth and wrote about it.

I don't mind debunking videos, but this guy is not honest. He has not understood the claims made by truthers.

Ron Craig claims the truther explosive evidence is entirely based on photographs and testimonals.

False- its based on a chemical study of the red/grey chips, also. Seismic activity studies. And thermal imaging studies.
False- Truthers never claimed classic thermite brought down the building, they claim nanothermite + high explosives did it.

If you report the other side beliefs falsely then nobody in the truther community will listen to you.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This is speculation.

Wait.
If it's all speculation and you aren't an

expert, why should we believe your claim about 15 people?
We already know you are bad at math as well as knowing nothing about demolition now too.

So where did you come up with the idea of 15 people?
How did you arrive at that number?

We know that Sandy Hook would only need 15 people to pull of though.
So why do you still not believe it when you've been shown evidence for it?

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Wait.
If it's all speculation and you aren't an

expert, why should we believe your claim about 15 people?
We already know you are bad at math as well as knowing nothing about demolition now too.

So where did you come up with the idea of 15 people?
How did you arrive at that number?

We know that Sandy Hook would only need 15 people to pull of though.
So why do you still not believe it when you've been shown evidence for it?

Listening to demolition experts.
A demolition team is normally made up of 30 experienced workers.
There work involves taking down a large sized skyscraper building.
A whole crew would not be needed on 9/11.
I explained the reasons why, i went with 15 people.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Listening to demolition experts.
A demolition team is normally made up of 30 experienced workers.
There work involves taking down a large sized skyscraper building.
A whole crew would not be needed on 9/11.
I explained the reasons why.

But you arent an expert in demolition. So why would your speculation be valid?
You dont know how long it would take so you dint know how many people it would take.
We also know that your math skills are poor.

And again it only takes 15 people to fake Sandy Hook.
I've shown that the government is involved using your own argument.

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

But you arent an expert in demolition. So why would your speculation be valid?
You dont know how long it would take so you dint know how many people it would take.
We also know that your math skills are poor.

And again it only takes 15 people to fake Sandy Hook.
I've shown that the government is involved using your own argument.

Can you read?
Are you?
So how can you tell my 15 people figure is wrong?
30 men is normal for demolition team. This is a team with torch cutters and cutter charge experts.
If they just placed packet charges around the steel columns there no need for 30 men. They don't have to knock down walls to gain access.

A bit rich coming from you. You swore you saw an invisible man and a leprechaun in one 9/11 picture i uploaded. Most sane people can tell it was just a reflection of two firefighters standing nearby. But you chose to believe a man can stand in a liquid and was doing work with no hands and legs.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Can you read?
Are you?

Lol what even is this sentence?

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

So how can you tell my 15 people figure is wrong?

Because you arent an expert and can't do math well.

Why do you think my figure for 15 people faking Sandy Hook is wrong.
Ive already shown how this is the case using your own argument.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

A bit rich coming from you. You swore you saw an invisible man and a leprechaun in one 9/11 picture i uploaded. Most sane people can tell it was just a reflection of two firefighters standing nearby. But you chose to believe a man can stand in a liquid and was doing work with no hands and legs.

lol. None of that happened.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

If explosives were used it occurred inside the building not outside. The shock from the blasts would push steel, concrete and furniture sideways not downwards. It explains why all the steel got hurled hundreds of feet away in all directions sideways. You watching a top down building implosion.

You start off with uncertainty by using the word "If" here, "if explosives were used" despite stating previously with absolutely certainty that they were used. You then proceed to rationalise things in an almost childlike fashion, until hey presto by the end of the paragraph you've convinced yourself that it is in fact a controlled demolition.

It's the same way that flat-earth people believe that they only need to rationalise it to themselves in order to make it a fact for everyone

Like you, they completely skip the whole direct evidence part.

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You start off with uncertainty by using the word "If" here, "if explosives were used" despite stating previously with absolutely certainty that they were used. You then proceed to rationalise things in an almost childlike fashion, until hey presto by the end of the paragraph you've convinced yourself that it is in fact a controlled demolition.

It's the same way that flat-earth people believe that they only need to rationalise it to themselves in order to make it a fact for everyone

Like you, they completely skip the whole direct evidence part.

It's also funny cause he doesnt realise how hes contradicting his other position in claiming it was thermite.

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Lol what even is this sentence?

Because you arent an expert and can't do math well.

Why do you think my figure for 15 people faking Sandy Hook is wrong.
Ive already shown how this is the case using your own argument.
lol. None of that happened.

Stop kidding yourself. You never researched the Sandy Hook conspiracy. You post to annoy people, you recieve some weird enjoyment or pleasure from it. I seen the way you insult other people on this forum. Like i told you before, i received messages by pm from people complaining about you and they told me its annoying the moderators allow you be uncivil to posters.

Your estimate is based on nothing. Simple

You claimed i not a demolition expert. I said are you! Self explantatory. You need long explantation for it?

Yes it happened, we had a week long debate about the picture. You changed your mind and agreed with me and then changed your mind again. Flip-flopping was weird.

JJayoo

Citicorp Center Tower

"280m high, 59 story building, the seventh tallest in the world(1978), was supported by a 23,000t steel structure, and was clad in glass and reflective aluminium."

They discovered a structural weekends and had to rectify it secretly.

"proposed a solution to strengthen 200 of the bolted joints. The solution consisted of welding 50mm thick plates across each bolted joint "

"Teams of drywall crews and carpenters would put up plywood screens around each bolted joint and remove the drywall from 5pm onwards each day."

"At 8pm, welding of the plates would commence and continue to 4am, when labourers would clean up the mess before the first office workers arrived. Work would continue seven days a week, the Department of Buildings would fast-track the certification of welders to meet the shortfall of trained personnel, "

So they were able to sneak in every night and do serious structural work on a 59 story building without anyone working in the building noticing....

And "Karl Koch Erecting, the same firm that had erected the World Trade Center, was engaged to complete the retrofit. "

Maybe cheerful is on to something...

http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2015/12/08/citicorp-centre-tower-failure-averted/

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Stop kidding yourself. You never researched the Sandy Hook conspiracy. You post to annoy people, you recieve some weird enjoyment or pleasure from it. I seen the way you insult other people on this forum. Like i told you before, i received messages by pm from people complaining about you and they told me its annoying the moderators allow you be uncivil to posters.

Your estimate is based on nothing. Simple

You claimed i not a demolition expert. I said are you! Self explantatory. You need long explantation for it?

Yes it happened, we had a week long debate about the picture. You changed your mind and agreed with me and then changed your mind again. Flip-flopping was weird.

Again you claim things that never happened.

And my estimation on the number of people needed to pull off Sandy Hook is based off the same thing your estimation is.
So why dont you believe it?
Ive already shown that the government must be involved in it if your argument is applied.

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Again you claim things that never happened.

And my estimation on the number of people needed to pull off Sandy Hook is based off the same thing your estimation is.
So why dont you believe it?
Ive already shown that the government must be involved in it if your argument is applied.

Prove it. Adam Lanza did the shooting.
Who is the other 14?
What their role in the conspiracy
Provide some information that proves other people are involved.

Cheerful Spring2

JJayoo wrote: »

So they were able to sneak in every night and do serious structural work on a 59 story building without anyone working in the building noticing....


http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2015/12/08/citicorp-centre-tower-failure-averted/

I would not claim this is evidence, i am right. It just evidence Skeptics are wrong when they claim it can't be done.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Prove it. Adam Lanza did the shooting.
Who is the other 14?
What their role in the conspiracy
Provide some information that proves other people are involved.

Oh, I can't do any of that. I pulled the number out of my ass like you did.

How about you?
Who are your 16 people?
Provide some information that proves other people are involved.
What their role in the conspiracy?
Prove it.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You start off with uncertainty by using the word "If" here, "if explosives were used" despite stating previously with absolutely certainty that they were used. You then proceed to rationalise things in an almost childlike fashion, until hey presto by the end of the paragraph you've convinced yourself that it is in fact a controlled demolition.

It's the same way that flat-earth people believe that they only need to rationalise it to themselves in order to make it a fact for everyone

Like you, they completely skip the whole direct evidence part.

I would have to see how the nano-thermite worked.
It's completely new material like explosive substance, it not classic thermite..Its a super like thermite.
Would there be a need to place high explosives, if nano-thermite was developed by the military? There too many unknowns here.
There was red/grey chips in the dust, and the chips contains the ingredients of thermite. The energy release occurs at low temps, so its not like any thermite i know of available. Thermite takes 3000 F to ignite, this took off and released a high energy spike at 400c.

There excellent debate about this substance on the International Skeptic forum. Oystein a leading 9/11 debunker and Jay Howard (9/11 truther) they go over this in great detail. Personally i think Jay Howard won the debate, but i am bias.

Posted this before, just for people who not familiar with this topic.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289588

Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

Oh, I can't do any of that. I pulled the number out of my ass like you did.

How about you?
Who are your 16 people?
Provide some information that proves other people are involved.
What their role in the conspiracy?
Prove it.

Of course, you did. Sandy Hook, just one shooter.

How many people do you think it would take ?
Full demolition crew about 30
Do you think they need 30?
You can speculate.

smurfjed

The Saudis weren’t too discrete in Istanbul and you still want to think that as a government entity they could pull this off discretely.

It’s also worth noting that the newly appointed Saudi ambassador to the USA is the daughter of Prince Bandar. Do you think that if the USA realistically had doubts about her father that they would have allowed her to be appointed ?

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Of course, you did. Sandy Hook, just one shooter.

How many people do you think it would take ?
Full demolition crew about 30
Do you think they need 30?
You can speculate.

You've dodged your own question.
Who are the 15 people you think planted the demoliton?
Provide some information about them.
Prove it was them.

Show that you arent just plucking those numbers out of your ass.

Cheerful Spring2

smurfjed wrote: »

The Saudis weren’t too discrete in Istanbul and you still want to think that as a government entity they could pull this off discretely.

It’s also worth noting that the newly appointed Saudi ambassador to the USA is the daughter of Prince Bandar. Do you think that if the USA realistically had doubts about her father that they would have allowed her to be appointed ?

The Saudi links to 9/11 is established history. 9/11 commission report was not fully released to the public in 2004.

29 page section of the report was classified till 2016. It written in 2002. Obama did want to release it, the congress disagreed. It a story they never wanted to come out and there many other files they keep secret still.

12 years after 9/11 a long time. The White House knew this would do great harm, if released in 2004. Bush was protecting his allies and there many reasons why he went to great lengths to thwart FBI investigations. Stopping 29 pages coming out did not succeed and gives us an insight to what actually going on.

29 pages with redactions still. It still an informative read.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160715183528/http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/declasspart4.pdf