Lets all have more kids!!!

Blazer

Sometimes you seriously wonder about what planet politicians are on...and then you see ideas like this.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/baby-boxes-for-parents-of-every-newborn-irelands-strategy-to-increase-birth-rate-revealed-36807832.html


The latest brainwave being floated to support an aging population is ....encourage families to have more kids by giving them a baby box.

Instead of lets say
1. Eliminate chidlren's allowance after the 2nd child going forward
2. Increase number of teachers for primary and secondary schools and expand the school subjects and revise the crap junior cert and leaving cert qualifications
3. Build more colleges thus reducing points for courses leading to more people in higher level jobs
4. Rebuild the HSE ground up. Increase nurses salaries at start and give them a proper career path like most countries do thus preventing the draining of resources to other countries

And there's probably a tonne more we could do to ensure most people get upskilled and have better jobs which in turn would provide a better tax take instead of sponging off welfare, career criminals etc etc...

But no...lets encourage Jonjo and Charmaine down the road to pump out the sprogs in the hope one of them might actually get a job and pay a bit of tax to support their parents in the future.
We already have the highest birth rate in Europe and we want more??

Day Lewin

Children are beautiful.

Blazer

Day Lewin wrote: »

Children are beautiful.

that they are...I have 2 myself but there's no way I'd have more.
I can support two as is but there's no way I'd be having 4 or 5 kids.

Kermit.de.frog

Very keen on the method of creation. Not so keen on the actual sprogs

Dog walker 1234

I am happy to sow my wild oats on Saturday night and pray for a crop failure Sunday morning.

godtabh

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Very keen on the method of creation. Not so keen on the actual sprogs

Test tube babies?

super_furry

Want to increase birthdate? Offer free crèches for children whose parents are in full time employment. People want more children, they just can’t afford to have them.

erica74

You can have as many children as you want but PAY FOR THEM YOURSELF.

Try_harder

Number 1 is unconstitutional for a start

pjohnson

I'm suprised these OP's never propose we enact China's one child policy here, or forbid unemployed from being allowed have children.

lawred2

What is planned to be in these baby boxes?

judeboy101

Licences for kids, just like for dogs.

Blazer

Try_harder wrote: »

Number 1 is unconstitutional for a start

how so?

Tombo2001

super_furry wrote: »

Want to increase birthdate? Offer free crèches for children whose parents are in full time employment. People want more children, they just can’t afford to have them.

The other thing this brings is a minimum standard of care for every child, in other words you wouldn’t have that cohort of very neglected children that struggle to adapt to adult life. There should be a much bigger discussion about this, but child welfare is not a topic discussed very much in Ireland, compared to water charges for example.

wexie

lawred2 wrote: »

What is planned to be in these baby boxes?

The starter kits for babies included babygrows, a blanket, outdoor clothing, bathing products, nappies and bedding. Educational books are also included in the package.

not too sure how that's supposed to encourage people to have more children...

responsible parents will still not be able to afford to have more, irresponsible ones still won't care.

So the whole thing will achieve SFA

wexie

judeboy101 wrote: »

Licences for kids, just like for dogs.

right....cause every dog owner has a license as we all know.

lawred2

wexie wrote: »

not too sure how that's supposed to encourage people to have more children...

responsible parents will still not be able to afford to have more, irresponsible ones still won't care.

So the whole thing will achieve SFA

Joke stuff

jobless

super_furry wrote: »

Want to increase birthdate? Offer free crèches for children whose parents are in full time employment. People want more children, they just can’t afford to have them.

This x1000

lazygal

super_furry wrote: »

Want to increase birthdate? Offer free crèches for children whose parents are in full time employment. People want more children, they just can’t afford to have them.

Or offer a child care payment for parents working full or part-time to be used on their preferred child care. We have no interest in creche based child care, we employ a child minder.

JustLen

lawred2 wrote: »

What is planned to be in these baby boxes?

Babies obviously

Hoboo

lazygal wrote: »

Or offer a child care payment for parents working full or part-time to be used on their preferred child care. We have no interest in creche based child care, we employ a child minder.

Your username is quite apt.

lazygal

Hoboo wrote: »

Your username is quite apt.

How so? Are working parents all lazy gals?

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

Or offer a child care payment for parents working full or part-time to be used on their preferred child care. We have no interest in creche based child care, we employ a child minder.

Exactly . All well and good giving parents a baby box, that won't do anything to ease the burden of childcare . They only have to look around and ask why people are not having more kids . They simply can't afford to pay huge rents , massive mortgages and ridiculous child care costs .

lawred2

lazygal wrote: »

Or offer a child care payment for parents working full or part-time to be used on their preferred child care. We have no interest in creche based child care, we employ a child minder.

Direct payments to creche operators would be far easier administered than direct payment to parents.

Also with the well known Irish penchant for taking advantage of in house carers I'm not sure it's something the government would want to be seen to be in direct support of.

lazygal

lawred2 wrote: »

Direct payments to creche operators would be far easier administered than direct payment to parents.

Also with the well known Irish penchant for taking advantage of in house carers I'm not sure it's something the government would want to be seen to be in direct support of.

We are registered employers of our minder. She gets holiday pay, sick leave and pay slips. There's not one decent creche near us I'd leave my children in. Creche care isn't something I think the state should privilege.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

This post has been deleted.

wexie

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

right....that'd make things way better.

There's enough Shakiras, Brittneys, Jacintas, Antos and Deccos kicking about as it is.

The objective is to make things a little better, not a lot worse

ayux4rj6zql2ph

This post has been deleted.

s7ryf3925pivug

Stop taxing a sole breadwinner more than two spouses who each earn half as much. Parental care is preferable to daycare before age three.

hairyslug

Any chance we can get this backdated.

Fighting Tao

So those who don't want others having kids, don't want a pension when they get older. Fine....maybe there should be some system to weed these people out and ensure there is no pension payments to them ever.

Greybottle

Dog walker 1234 wrote: »

I am happy to sow my wild oats on Saturday night and pray for a crop failure Sunday morning.

A brilliant Makem & Clancy line. :pac:

lazygal

Fighting Tao wrote: »

So those who don't want others having kids, don't want a pension when they get older. Fine....maybe there should be some system to weed these people out and ensure there is no pension payments to them ever.

They don't want anyone caring for them in their dotage either clearly.

s7ryf3925pivug

We got one of those boxes. Didnt get much with it. Haven't used it much yet. Probably will for a while as he outgrown his current downstairs sleeping arrangements.

Bit weird to think a gesture like this would affect fertility rates. I suspect the journalist has the angle wrong. It's about the child's wellbeing and avoiding SIDS.

Lu Tze

Fighting Tao wrote: »

So those who don't want others having kids, don't want a pension when they get older. Fine....maybe there should be some system to weed these people out and ensure there is no pension payments to them ever.

There won't be a pension by the time we retire, or at least not one in anyway comparable to today's one. The numbers just don't stack up, can't see there being any state pension for anybody who has assets or other income (such as providing their own private pension) in 35 years or so.

Akrasia

lazygal wrote: »

Or offer a child care payment for parents working full or part-time to be used on their preferred child care. We have no interest in creche based child care, we employ a child minder.

Why only for working parents though?

Why is it only economic activity when minding someone else's kids?

If there's a childcare payment it should be paid to all parents to either pay some of the cost of professional child care, or loss of earnings if they mind their own children.

lazygal

Akrasia wrote: »

Why only for working parents though?

Why is it only economic activity when minding someone else's kids?

If there's a childcare payment it should be paid to all parents to either pay some of the cost of professional child care, or loss of earnings if they mind their own children.

Minding my own kids is parenting. It's not a job.

appledrop

It's simple if you want to increase birth rate you need to assist with childcare costs.

Raging_Ninja

They're not wrong though. The modern welfare state absolutely depends on there being more people working and entering the workforce and paying taxes than leaving it through retirement, just like any other pyramid scheme. Best way to guarantee this is people having more kids.

10 years ago there were 4 people paying taxes for every 1 person receiving social welfare (pension, dole, etc). In about 15-20 years that figure will be down to 2.2 as the birth rate falls into line with all the other industrialised countries.

Demographics is the greatest threat the welfare state can ever face.

Sofiztikated

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Exactly . All well and good giving parents a baby box, that won't do anything to ease the burden of childcare . They only have to look around and ask why people are not having more kids . They simply can't afford to pay huge rents , massive mortgages and ridiculous child care costs .

It's also to do with the change of lifestyle. Women aren't at home, cranking out children from their early 20's anymore.

I think its a good idea, the box, but it'd want to be somewhat substantial. Cos if its a single piece of cardboard, I don't see many Irish people using it for the cot purpose.

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

Minding my own kids is parenting. It's not a job.

Do you not think parents should be supported to stay at home and look after their children ? If parents were supported for two years or so I am sure many would stay at home rather than take the option of supported creche fees ? I spoke to a Latvian girl recently and to increase the birth rate they are supported financially for up to three years .It is a percentage of their previous pay and the percentage lowers each year but they are still at least supported

corks finest

Let's not,I'm a father of 8,and can honestly say it was naive and stupid of me to have so many,my income at the time they were young(all in their 30s now)was not enough,it required 2 jobs,and later on the wife had to wo to as well,my eldest is on number 6 kid,has no life herself, not enough money,and in the same position as we were ,crazy,crazy stuff

lazygal

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Do you not think parents should be supported to stay at home and look after their children ? If parents were supported for two years or so I am sure many would stay at home rather than take the option of supported creche fees ? I spoke to a Latvian girl recently and to increase the birth rate they are supported financially for up to three years .It is a percentage of their previous pay and the percentage lowers each year but they are still at least supported

Not everyone wants to stay home. I did for a year both times. I was happy to go back to work. What happens if your job isn't there after three years or you're replaced in the meantime?
Going the creche subsidy route just shovels more money into private enterprises like Giraffe.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Blazer wrote: »

Sometimes you seriously wonder about what planet politicians are on...and then you see ideas like this.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/baby-boxes-for-parents-of-every-newborn-irelands-strategy-to-increase-birth-rate-revealed-36807832.html


The latest brainwave being floated to support an aging population is ....encourage families to have more kids by giving them a baby box.

Instead of lets say
1. Eliminate chidlren's allowance after the 2nd child going forward
2. Increase number of teachers for primary and secondary schools and expand the school subjects and revise the crap junior cert and leaving cert qualifications
3. Build more colleges thus reducing points for courses leading to more people in higher level jobs
4. Rebuild the HSE ground up. Increase nurses salaries at start and give them a proper career path like most countries do thus preventing the draining of resources to other countries

And there's probably a tonne more we could do to ensure most people get upskilled and have better jobs which in turn would provide a better tax take instead of sponging off welfare, career criminals etc etc...

But no...lets encourage Jonjo and Charmaine down the road to pump out the sprogs in the hope one of them might actually get a job and pay a bit of tax to support their parents in the future.
We already have the highest birth rate in Europe and we want more??

The west isn’t over populated. Quite the opposite.

All of your solutions bar point 1) are extremely vague. Not worth engaging.

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

Not everyone wants to stay home. I did for a year both times. I was happy to go back to work. What happens if your job isn't there after three years or you're replaced in the meantime?
Going the creche subsidy route just shovels more money into private enterprises like Giraffe.

At no stage did I say everyone wanted to stay at home ? I said the option should be there to stay at home . If they are going to subsidize child care in creches then in my opinion the option should also be there to stay at home and be supported with the same amount as creche subsidy would cost >I dont actually understand your arguement at all .I am for options and allowing parents chose the child care they wish to avail of , be it at home , creche or a minder .All should get equal support
And I see no problem with any route if it suits the parents and child .Nor would I be snobby and tut tut at creches as they are often the ideal option for many parents and children

lazygal

iamwhoiam wrote: »

At no stage did I say everyone wanted to stay at home ? I said the option should be there to stay at home . If they are going to subsidize child care in creches then in my opinion the option should also be there to stay at home and be supported with the same amount as creche subsidy would cost >I dont actually understand your arguement at all .I am for options and allowing parents chose the child care they wish to avail of , be it at home , creche or a minder .All should get equal support
And I see no problem with any route if it suits the parents and child .Nor would I be snobby and tut tut at creches as they are often the ideal option for many parents and children

Why would someone who doesn't have child care costs because they've chosen not to work outside the home need a child care subsidy? If you choose to forgo income why should the state pay you instead?

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

Why would someone who doesn't have child care costs because they've chosen not to work outside the home need a child care subsidy? If you choose to forgo income why should the state pay you instead?

Because it gives them the OPTION to stay at home .Many dont have that option because they simply cannot afford it .Its not that difficult surely to understand that? Subsidizing creche fees or minders or the parent to stay at home at one rate for all is not at all difficult to grasp ? If the government only chose to subsidize for example one route of childcare then people can only afford that one route .If they open more routes people can chose the route to suit them

lazygal

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Because it gives them the OPTION to stay at home .Many dont have that option because they simply cannot afford it .Its not that difficult surely to understand that? Subsidizing creche fees or minders or the parent to stay at home at one rate for all is not at all difficult to grasp ?

I'm working for not much more than childcare fees right now. People make all sorts of choices the state doesn't pay for. If you choose to forgo paid employment to stay at home to be with your children, that's on you. Why would the state pay you for parenting?

iamwhoiam

lazygal wrote: »

I'm working for not much more than childcare fees right now. People make all sorts of choices the state doesn't pay for. If you choose to forgo paid employment to stay at home to be with your children, that's on you. Why would the state pay you for parenting?

By the very same token then by your logic why should they pay or subsidize a creche fee or indeed your child minder so ? You posted that if the government subsidize creches then your minder also should be subsized . By your own logic you are now contradicting that . As why should they pay for anything at all really if you chose to be a parent ? Did you get maternity leave pay ? Childrens allowance ?

Atlantic Dawn

It's funny that only now the government can see the country is completely finished when it comes to the sustainability of our incredibly generous state pension and social welfare system, there's simply not enough people being born to come even close to keeping it going. They will waffle this they will waffle that but at the end of the day it all comes down to the price of a house being out of the reach of people planning to start a family and those who havn't planned and are banging them out like Flynn are more likely to become homeless as a result of the unaffordability of them.

I had to laugh when I saw the front page of the Irish Independent yesterday, big massive headline "Just 18 months until house prices hit Celtic Tiger peak" and then below it a seperate story "Binge drinking is just what young people do no", can people not see the link in knowing you have zero chance of ever owning a house at current prices and as a result pi$$ing your weeks wages away?

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ind-10.jpg

techdiver

Simon Brief Steward wrote: »

Stop taxing a sole breadwinner more than two spouses who each earn half as much. Parental care is preferable to daycare before age three.

I wish i could thank this more than once.

Tax individualisation was a disaster for single income households.