Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

skearnsot

meeeeh wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I'm a woman and I don't and never would. It's none of my business how promiscuous someone is and I don't know why something so irrelevant should influence my opinion of them.

I don’t call them sluts it sure a word almost as abhorrent as the “C” word! But women and girls and very obviously fellas (NOT ALL) call other girls women sluts!

givyjoe

meeeeh wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I'm a woman and I don't and never would. It's none of my business how promiscuous someone is and I don't know why something so irrelevant should influence my opinion of them.

Are you representative of all women? Or even the average woman?

Sile Na Gig

skearnsot wrote: »

I don’t call them sluts it sure a word almost as abhorrent as the “C” word! But women and girls and very obviously fellas (NOT ALL) call other girls women sluts!

Some of my friends call each other ‘slut’ or ‘cnut’ as a term of endearment...reclaiming it apparently. I sometimes call my friends ‘lady’, drives my mam (an old school libber) mad- she hates the word ‘lady’!

Sile Na Gig

givyjoe wrote: »

Are you representative of all women? Or even the average woman?

We don’t have a hive mind!

skearnsot

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

Some of my friends call each other ‘slut’ or ‘cnut’ as a term of endearment...reclaiming it apparently. I sometimes call my friends ‘lady’, drives my mam (an old school libber) mad- she hates the word ‘lady’!

Yup I hear ya!!! It’s gas the terms that drive people up the wall! Iv been called all of the above but while I find certain words abhorrent - I wouldn’t get up on a podium about it if ya catch my drift

Mrsmum

skearnsot wrote: »

I don’t call them sluts it sure a word almost as abhorrent as the “C” word! But women and girls and very obviously fellas (NOT ALL) call other girls women sluts!

But what is your point exactly ? That because some wrong minded people behave like this (offensive language used to describe women) that we should be ok with other wrong minded people doing it ? I'm sure that there are people who still use the n word for black people but most people have got the message that it is unacceptable. Imagine if it came out that Pat Kenny say was laughing and calling a guest on his programme a n.... in private texts, he'd be out the door. Actually my son has told me that some of his coloured friends at school use this word about themselves messing like but that they would not like white people to do it. To slag yourself off is one thing, accepting it from others is a different thing altogether.

Outlaw Pete

facehugger99 wrote: »

A drunk teenager was left hysterical and bleeding by a ****faced PJ and SO. They didn't even have the common decency to walk her to a taxi or make sure she got home ok.

You want them to walk her to a taxi when she's running?

"She ran downstairs and Rory Harrison came out after her and asked was she okay, she said".

Christ knows what else they might be guilty of....

What does that nonsense even mean? Sure Christ knows what anyone 'MIGHT' be guilty of. That you have to inject in a little suggestion of possible wrong doings by them (that we aren't aware of) suggests that what you do have on them isn't enough to warrant the vitriol you're currently expressing towards them.

Don't fcuking tell me they didn't do anything wrong! Their behavior was nothing short of abominable and fell several furlongs below what I expect of any decent human, much less people who proport to represent the national team. Good riddance to them.

She got drunk, had group sex, menstruated, felt embarrassed, left mortified.

The next day they had what appears to be a purposefully exaggerated banter between them about spit roasting and being top shaggers. Were they gents? Nope. They sound like obnoxious knobs but they were all in their early 20s at the time and so I wouldn't be putting them before a firing squad just yet. Young girls don't exactly speak like ladies at that age about lads they have had ONSs with either and so I don't really understand why young lads should all be expected to speak like gentlemen. Had they sent texts to each other right after she left, calling her names or what not, then I would understand your attitude, but they didn't do anything like that.One of them went after her and it's clear some of the lads phoned Rory to ask why she had ran off and if she was okay.

I think it shows the attitude towards men in our society today that they can be found not guilty in a court of law and yet some will still say that they deserve their lives ruined because they sent some juvenile bragging texts. Is that really a proportional price to pay for immature behavior? Of course it is't. It's exceedingly disproportionate. The reality is we shouldn't even know these men's names let alone be continuing to drag their names through the mud and having talk of their bed sheets splashed across our front pages.

skearnsot

Mrsmum wrote: »

But what is your point exactly ? That because some wrong minded people behave like this (offensive language used to describe women) that we should be ok with other wrong minded people doing it ? I'm sure that there are people who still use the n word for black people but most people have got the message that it is unacceptable. Imagine if it came out that Pat Kenny say was laughing and calling a guest on his programme a n.... in private texts, he'd be out the door. Actually my son has told me that some of his coloured friends at school use this word about themselves messing like but that they would not like white people to do it. To slag yourself off is on thing, accepting it from others is a different thing altogether.

Where did I say it was acceptable??????? I said it happens!!

Mrsmum

skearnsot wrote: »

Where did I say it was acceptable??????? I said it happens!!

Great. It happens but we are in agreement it is unacceptable.

skearnsot

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You want them to walk her to a taxi when she's running?






What does that nonsense even mean? Sure Christ knows what anyone 'MIGHT' be guilty of. That you have to inject in a little suggestion of possible wrong doings by them (that we aren't aware of) suggests that what you do have on them isn't enough to warrant the vitriol you're currently expressing towards them.



She got drunk, had group sex, menstruated, felt embarrassed, left mortified.

The next day they had what appears to be a purposefully exaggerated banter between them about spit roasting and being top shaggers. Were they gents? Nope. They sound like obnoxious knobs but they were all in their early 20s at the time and so I wouldn't be putting them before a firing squad just yet. Young girls don't exactly speak like ladies at that age about lads they have had ONSs with either and so I don't really understand why young lads should all be expected to speak like gentlemen. Had they sent texts to each other right after she left, calling her names or what not, then I would understand your attitude, but they didn't do anything like that.One of them went after her and it's clear some of the lads phoned Rory to ask why she had ran off and if she was okay.

I think it shows the attitude towards men in our society today that they can be found not guilty in a court of law and yet some will still say that they deserve their lives ruined because they sent some juvenile bragging texts. Is that really a proportional price to pay for immature behavior? Of course it is't. It's exceedingly disproportionate. The reality is we shouldn't even know these men's names let alone be continuing to drag their names through the mud and having talk of their bed sheets splashed across our front pages.

100% agree

mfceiling

What actually happened after the threesome is interesting.

Did PJ and Olding know she was upset? Did either of them leave the bedroom after it? Did the girl start crying outside the house or inside?

Easy to call them pricks etc but were they fully aware she was so upset after the event?

Sile Na Gig

Either way it doesn’t look good, and when you’re the face of a wholesome family brand that’s not going to fly.

skearnsot

Mrsmum wrote: »

Great. It happens but we are in agreement it is unacceptable.

It’s horrible absolutely!! Matterless of who does or says it and matterless of their “status” in “society”! I would die if my daughter or son (who was called an autistic **** by a 10 year old by the way) was called that or if she called someone that or if she called any of her peers a derogatory name - she would definitely have us to answer to! Sadly not all households or people have rules of respect taught at home - as that’s where I firmly believe these teachings start.

Squatter

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You want them to walk her to a taxi when she's running?

Well, Harrison managed to catch her before she got there - and he's not a professional rugby player.

Silentcorner

mfceiling wrote: »

What actually happened after the threesome is interesting.

Did PJ and Olding know she was upset? Did either of them leave the bedroom after it? Did the girl start crying outside the house or inside?

Easy to call them pricks etc but were they fully aware she was so upset after the event?

If you can make head nor tail out of what the lads claim happened and what they knew I'd love to hear it...because their version of events are all over the place!

skearnsot

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you can make head nor tail out of what the lads claim happened and what they knew I'd love to hear it...because their version of events are all over the place!

Wasn’t her version of events a bit askew too? Ugh it’s just a fu**in mess for ALL & their families

koheim

What exactly did Paddy Jackson say in the Whatsapp messages? Other than being a member of the groups, I cant find anything he wrote...but this seems to be the reason he was let go.

mfceiling

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you can make head nor tail out of what the lads claim happened and what they knew I'd love to hear it...because their version of events are all over the place!

What was their version? Seriously? Did they have any idea she went home crying in a taxi? Did dhe want to stay and they told her to feck off? (Not a nice thing to do but has happened a milion people after a one night stand).

I'm genuinely curious as to how much the 2 boys were aware of her upset?

blanch152

skearnsot wrote: »

Wasn’t her version of events a bit askew too? Ugh it’s just a fu**in mess for ALL & their families

The sober independent witness contradicted both their drunken version and her drunken version.

That really sums up a lot of rape cases in Ireland - a lot of drink involved making for unreliable witnesses.

Silentcorner

mfceiling wrote: »

What was their version? Seriously? Did they have any idea she went home crying in a taxi? Did dhe want to stay and they told her to feck off? (Not a nice thing to do but has happened a milion people after a one night stand).

I'm genuinely curious as to how much the 2 boys were aware of her upset?

There are 3 different versions.

Each one contradicts the other so therefore we simply do not know how that night ended in that house.


I believe Stuart was went to the bed in a different room at the time the young lady left (I know he testified that the reason he walked into Paddys room was to crash)

Paddy remembers being downstairs when the young lady left the house (he could hear her heels on the tiles in the hallway)

Rory said he say the young lady full dressed outside Paddys Room seemingly in good health, he stuck his head in the door to say goodnight to Paddy who was half asleep at this stage.

Blaine, well, he testified that he walked into the room, the young lady briefly performed oral sex, asked him to get condoms, he went looking for them, by the time he got back to the room she was getting dressed and was leaving.

Neither Rory or Paddy have any recollection of seeing Blaine in the room that night.

Silentcorner

blanch152 wrote: »

The sober independent witness contradicted both their drunken version and her drunken version.

That really sums up a lot of rape cases in Ireland - a lot of drink involved making for unreliable witnesses.

Dara Florense did not contradict the young ladys version, actually she gave the same account the young lady did.

Squatter

Silentcorner wrote: »

Dara Florense did not contradict the young ladys version, actually she gave the same account the young lady did.

Apart from one very significant difference!

AudreyHepburn

mfceiling wrote: »

What actually happened after the threesome is interesting.

Did PJ and Olding know she was upset? Did either of them leave the bedroom after it? Did the girl start crying outside the house or inside?

Easy to call them pricks etc but were they fully aware she was so upset after the event?

My understanding was that they didn’t know until the following day when the one who dropped her home (McEllroy?) told them.

This was after they had started bragging about what at happened I believe.

Outlaw Pete

Squatter wrote: »

Well, Harrison managed to catch her before she got there - and he's not a professional rugby player.

Harrison wasn't naked.. nor even upstairs.

Plus, they all had a lot to drink. She wasn't the only one that was drunk.

AudreyHepburn

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you can make head nor tail out of what the lads claim happened and what they knew I'd love to hear it...because their version of events are all over the place!

And hers wasn’t?

I think the truth of the matter lies somewhere in the middle of the various accounts tbh.

Silentcorner

Squatter wrote: »

Apart from one very significant difference!

Of course, it was Dara's perception of what she was seeing was different, but they both stated that they did not see each others face!

AudreyHepburn

Silentcorner wrote: »

Dara Florense did not contradict the young ladys version, actually she gave the same account the young lady did.

The young lady said she was raped. Dara Florence said she heard and saw consensual sex.

So not exactly the same account.

Silentcorner

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

And hers wasn’t?

I think the truth of the matter lies somewhere in the middle of the various accounts tbh.

What, where did I say that...

I was responding to someone who asked about whether the lads were aware she left the house upset.

Silentcorner

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The young lady said she was raped. Dara Florence said she heard and saw consensual sex.

So not exactly the same account.

Different perceptions of the same scene...

They both said that when the door opened Paddy was having sex with the young lady from behind, and the young lady was performing oral sex on Stuart, they also both said that when Dara opened the door the young lady turned her head.

Dara thought everything was hunky dorey, the young lady claimed she had froze at that stage.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

Different perceptions of the same scene...

They both said that when the door opened Paddy was having sex with the young lady from behind, and the young lady was performing oral sex on Stuart, they also both said that when Dara opened the door the young lady turned her head.

Dara thought everything was hunky dorey, the young lady claimed she had froze at that stage.

But, Paddy said he didn’t have sex with her.