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First home purchase disaster

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2

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    #32
    Sinister Kid
    Registered Users Posts: 7,503 ✭✭✭Sinister Kid


    I hear face book is good for that... (Name & shame)


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    #33
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    If you name and shame you will be defaming them which will put you in a world of poo


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    #34
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    Please don't incur any more costs in relation to this property. Talk to your current solicitor - make sure he/she knows its a 'for free' chat - seek their advice to ascertain if you have any right to claim. And hindsight is a great thing but on the next property hold off on the building survey until you know everything else is good and your solicitor has contracts from the vendor.

    I doubt very much that your old Auctioneer would be willing to join up with you regarding a claim.... in fact, I'd be stunned.


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    #35
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    justagirl wrote: »
    Please don't incur any more costs in relation to this property. Talk to your current solicitor - make sure he/she knows its a 'for free' chat - seek their advice to ascertain if you have any right to claim. And hindsight is a great thing but on the next property hold off on the building survey until you know everything else is good and your solicitor has contracts from the vendor.

    I doubt very much that your old Auctioneer would be willing to join up with you regarding a claim.... in fact, I'd be stunned.

    For loss of commission?


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    #36
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    For loss of commission?

    There is no basis for an EA/Auctioneer in this circumstance to claim for loss of commission .... we don't know the full scenario but we do know that the property was given by the vendor to another Auctioneer (this happens.... a lot) - again for reasons we don't know but we can guess that they think the other Auctioneer can get a higher price for them....


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    #37
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    hdowney wrote: »
    Have they still got your deposit also? They sound so shady I wouldn't be surprised if you have a fight on your hands to get that back. Good luck with it, and I am sorry to hear you are going through this.

    There is no fight to be had. The seller can do whatever they want until contracts are signed. You can offer an extra 100k over underbidder and he can decline it. Or in my case request for drawdown of funds , solicitors all done and contract deadline expired one day beforehand and they decided to bail.


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    #38
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    You can claim for the costs you incurred i.e. the valuer, engineer, loss of earnings for appointments in relation to house etc.

    Talk to a solicitor.

    The odds of him winning are slim. No contract signed so they can do whatever they want


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    #39
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    Fol20 wrote: »
    There is no fight to be had. The seller can do whatever they want until contracts are signed. You can offer an extra 100k over underbidder and he can decline it. Or in my case request for drawdown of funds , solicitors all done and contract deadline expired one day beforehand and they decided to bail.

    So sorry to hear this. It's awful when this happens. I always say ... until you have the key in your hand .. it's not yours.


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    #40
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    You can claim for the costs you incurred i.e. the valuer, engineer, loss of earnings for appointments in relation to house etc.

    Talk to a solicitor.

    The odds of him winning are slim. No contract signed so they can do whatever they want

    There was a verbal agreement and costs incurred as a result. There may be emails or texts which support that


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    #41
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    There was a verbal agreement and costs incurred as a result. There may be emails or texts which support that

    It happens all of the time, I am not saying it is right. But unfortunately, on the little detail we have been given - there is no basis for a legal claim here.


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    #42
    Wildcard7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭Wildcard7


    Fol20 wrote: »
    There is no fight to be had. The seller can do whatever they want until contracts are signed. You can offer an extra 100k over underbidder and he can decline it. Or in my case request for drawdown of funds , solicitors all done and contract deadline expired one day beforehand and they decided to bail.

    Well in that case I know what I'd do: Look for a new house, and at the same time put down an offer for this house that's higher than the current bid to waste as much of their time as possible.


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    #43
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    There was a verbal agreement and costs incurred as a result. There may be emails or texts which support that

    Agreement in principle perhaps, nothing binding until contracts are signed by both parties.

    I'm absolutely open to correction on this if anyone has any interesting case links :)


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    #44
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Verbal contracts are binding, difficupt to prove without a witness however if there is a single line in an email agreeing that the house is to be sold to OP then he/she has a good case


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    #45
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Is there not a code of ethics for the valuer, if he is also an estate agent or auctioner. Sounds like the valuer comes over to the house, thinks it’s valued below market and then contacts to seller to get the rights to the house sale. This has got to breach a contract he has with the bank - his job for the bank was to merely make sure the house wasn’t overvalued, not undervalued. An undervalued house is good news for a mortgage provider.

    I can’t imagine the banks are too happy with this. And he might have caused them far more monetary damage than the op. I can’t see they would use him again.

    Is this a small village or town, op?


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    #46
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    There was a verbal agreement and costs incurred as a result. There may be emails or texts which support that
    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    Verbal contracts are binding, difficupt to prove without a witness however if there is a single line in an email agreeing that the house is to be sold to OP then he/she has a good case

    Any EA/Auctioneer that knows what they are doing has something like this in correspondence pertaining to an offer on a property:
    "subject to contract/contract denied" .... which covers eventualities like this OP has endured.


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    #47
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    Verbal contracts are binding, difficupt to prove without a witness however if there is a single line in an email agreeing that the house is to be sold to OP then he/she has a good case

    Like I said, would be genuinely interested in links to any cases where a potential purchaser had won a case for consequential losses against a vendor based on a verbal agreement in principle via an agent prior to contracts being signed.


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    #48
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    If you name and shame you will be defaming them which will put you in a world of poo

    Defamation is only a thing if its false.


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    #49
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    Graham wrote: »
    Like I said, would be genuinely interested in links to any cases where a potential purchaser had won a case for consequential losses against a vendor based on a verbal agreement in principle prior to contracts being signed.

    Yes - I would be extremely interested as well as have never come across any myself.


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    #50
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Banterbus28 wrote: »
    If you name and shame you will be defaming them which will put you in a world of poo

    Defamation is only a thing if its false.

    Aye but it would damage your case if part of the claim was acting in bad faith...


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    #51
    Banterbus28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Banterbus28


    Like I said, talk to a solicitor. Go through all of your outlay etc.


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    #52
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    justagirl wrote: »
    So sorry to hear this. It's awful when this happens. I always say ... until you have the key in your hand .. it's not yours.

    Tbh, in my case I was actually happy it didn’t complete. I thought I was over leveraged in debt and the price I was paying was too much, but if it was my own place to live in, I can see why people would be pissed off. Iv gone through the motions a good few times and come out the other side. It’s stressful, painful, and completely out of your control and all you can do is bite your lip and move on. Iv has banks waste my time for 6-9months to decline accepted price and for prices to have gone up by at least 30-40k for exact same properties in the same area, engineers coming back with unmortgageable issues,difficult sellers and the dreaded slow unresponsive vendor solicitors. Generally speaking for OP situation I wouldn’t hold any bad blood between the original ea. Since he didn’t close out on the deal he may have lost 5-10k in closing fees depending on the value of the property so I’m sure he is as equally unhappy


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    #53
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Tbh, in my case I was actually happy it didn’t complete. I thought I was over leveraged in debt and the price I was paying was too much, but if it was my own place to live in, I can see why people would be pissed off. Iv gone through the motions a good few times and come out the other side. It’s stressful, painful, and completely out of your control and all you can do is bite your lip and move on. Iv has banks waste my time for 6-9months to decline accepted price and for prices to have gone up by at least 30-40k for exact same properties in the same area, engineers coming back with unmortgageable issues,difficult sellers and the dreaded slow unresponsive vendor solicitors. Generally speaking for OP situation I wouldn’t hold any bad blood between the original ea. Since he didn’t close out on the deal he may have lost 5-10k in closing fees depending on the value of the property so I’m sure he is as equally unhappy

    I am glad it worked out for you in the end. It really is a stressful process, especially if someone is buying for the first time. I think communication really helps.... making sure everyone knows exactly what's happening and what the steps are really help to keep everything moving in the right direction. A vendor can still pull the sale but I personally believe being honest and straight go a long way.

    I agree with what you are saying about the original EA - the situation was out of his/her hands and I hope the OP finds a new property that might be a better option for him/her.


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    #54
    bleary
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭bleary


    The ea can make a claim for their commission as they introduced a seller to the vendor. Unfortunately you have no claim without contracts signed . Even with them signed difficult to enforce


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    #55
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    bleary wrote: »
    The ea can make a claim for their commission as they introduced a seller to the vendor. Unfortunately you have no claim without contracts signed . Even with them signed difficult to enforce

    The EA cannot make a claim for their commission..... the EA is no longer the agent for the property....


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    #56
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,059 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Defamation is only a thing if its false.
    No, defamation is a thing unless it's proven to be true.


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    #57
    bleary
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭bleary


    justagirl wrote: »
    The EA cannot make a claim for their commission..... the EA is no longer the agent for the property....

    They can. They signed a contract to introduce a buyer. They did , so are entitled to their commission. If the sale had fallen through it might be a case of just advertising costs but I this case the vendor should expect to receive their bill


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    #58
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    bleary wrote: »
    They can. They signed a contract to introduce a buyer. They did , so are entitled to their commission. If the sale had fallen through it might be a case of just advertising costs but I this case the vendor should expect to receive their bill

    No, they cannot. If this was the case - this would be a major money spinner for EAs as properties can get pulled for some reason or other.

    And would you as a vendor sign anything with an EA if such ramifications were possible?

    If you insist that they can and you can get a solicitor to take such a case - I would love to meet them;)


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    #59
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    justagirl wrote: »
    No, they cannot. If this was the case - this would be a major money spinner for EAs as properties can get pulled for some reason or other.

    And would you as a vendor sign anything with an EA if such ramifications were possible?

    If you insist that they can and you can get a solicitor to take such a case - I would love to meet them;)
    Most EAs have a sole agency or sole right to sell. I have seen cases of EAs suing and succeeding against owners. They are entitled to be paid if they introduce a ready able and willing purchaser. The problem the EA would have in the o/ps case is that it would be alleged he undervalued the property and did not secure a purchaser at full market value.


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    #60
    justagirl
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭justagirl


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Most EAs have a sole agency or sole right to sell. I have seen cases of EAs suing and succeeding against owners. They are entitled to be paid if they introduce a ready able and willing purchaser. The problem the EA would have in the o/ps case is that it would be alleged he undervalued the property and did not secure a purchaser at full market value.

    You also need a ready able and willing seller ;)


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    #61
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    justagirl wrote: »
    You also need a ready able and willing seller ;)

    The EA has been instructed to sell. If he finds a buyer and the owner then refuses to continue the EA can sue for his fee. people can't just instruct and EA to sell and when he has done the work tell him they have changed their mind and leave him with nothing.


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