First home purchase disaster

ESMA

So I found a place to buy quite a few weeks ago. I'm on my own buying for the first time. Placed my bid. Accepted by the seller. Ad taken down. Deposit paid. Got a solicitor involved. Got an engineer in. My auctioneer asked me to ask the bank for a specific valuer to do the valuation. I did this. Valuation was done and paid for. Bank says that all forms ready to be signed next week. All done .......???
I still have alerts set up on Daft - today new place is advertised in the same area I'm buying in. Curiosity leads me to check it out... It's "my apartment"... The seller went with a new auctioneer. No warning. Nothing!!!
Higher price. Out of my price range. To top it off the new auctioneer is the valuer that the bank/I requested - conflict of interest there surely??
Is this fair / just?
I've spent money between valuation and engineer on a place I was never in the running for!

heebusjeebus

Has your solicitor been in contact with the vendors solicitor yet?
If so, get them to ask what's going on.
Also worth raising it with the original estate agent too.

ESMA

I need to speak to the solicitor yet. Hopefully they can help.

Captain Flaps

I'm at roughly the same stage in the process (everything else done, just waiting for all the solicitors to get their various bits sorted) and you're describing my biggest worry about my own purchase. I've been warned by my solicitor and my broker that the only thing that stands in the way of this happening is the vendors morals, in your situation the original agent has also been screwed over so seconding the advice to get on to them for an update.

spaceHopper

Would it be worth talking to the valuer, basically get them to drop it. Tell them you will make a complaint to their professional body and to the bank. They are on the banks approved valuers list and could be seen to be abusing it by seeking business from vendors of properties they value.
This is also taking business off the bank because who ever buys it now my not take out a mortgage with them. Make an appointment to see the bank manger. At the very least they could phone them to hear their side of it as you are about to lodge a complaint with them.

ESMA

spaceHopper wrote: »

Would it be worth talking to the valuer, basically get them to drop it. Tell them you will make a complaint to their professional body and to the bank. They are on the banks approved valuers list and could be seen to be abusing it by seeking business from vendors of properties they value.
This is also taking business off the bank because who ever buys it now my not take out a mortgage with them. Make an appointment to see the bank manger. At the very least they could phone them to hear their side of it as you are about to lodge a complaint with them.

These are some really good points. I have just contacted the bank to bring this to their attention. Thank you - I will follow up on all of this. Do you know who the professional body for this would be? Not to worry if not I'll try search for it.

ESMA

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I'm at roughly the same stage in the process (everything else done, just waiting for all the solicitors to get their various bits sorted) and you're describing my biggest worry about my own purchase. I've been warned by my solicitor and my broker that the only thing that stands in the way of this happening is the vendors morals, in your situation the original agent has also been screwed over so seconding the advice to get on to them for an update.

I sincerely hope this does not happen to you - it's very gutting.

GingerLily

Can the new buyers get a new valuer?

I'm just worried your wasting your energy, the house isn't your until you sign contracts. I don't think the sellers are likely to change their decision not to sell to you.

I'm not saying what happened is fair.

ESMA

GingerLily wrote: »

Can the new buyers get a new valuer?

I'm just worried your wasting your energy, the house isn't your until you sign contracts. I don't think the sellers are likely to change their decision not to sell to you.

I'm not saying what happened is fair.

There is so much corruption with the valuer in this instance - I don't feel I am wasting my time if I point out the flaws and corruption in the system - I might not get the apartment I wanted in the end but I don't feel people should be allowed to screw you over without it being significantly highlighted. Otherwise the system continues to screw people over.

hmmm

Sorry to hear about this. If it was me, I'd have contacted the bank to complain like you did, and then moved on. I wouldn't want to have any further dealings with either the vendor or valuer. I presume also the previous estate agent is hopping mad, and I'd probably contact them to let them know the new EA is the valuer.

hdowney

Have they still got your deposit also? They sound so shady I wouldn't be surprised if you have a fight on your hands to get that back. Good luck with it, and I am sorry to hear you are going through this.

justagirl

ESMA wrote: »

My auctioneer asked me to ask the bank for a specific valuer to do the valuation. I did this. Valuation was done and paid for.

The bank usually has their own list of people that do valuations on their behalf? It is absolutely not up to the EA to tell you who to approach to do a valuation for your bank - that is very odd - it is not in the banks interest to do this.

Is your EA registered with the PSRA? Also, is the new EA registered? you can check here to see if they have the appropriate license:

http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/publicregister-reg-of-propserv-prov-en"

ESMA

hdowney wrote: »

Have they still got your deposit also? They sound so shady I wouldn't be surprised if you have a fight on your hands to get that back. Good luck with it, and I am sorry to hear you are going through this.

Still to get deposit back. I will start naming all parties involved if I don't get deposit and all expenses back. It's just too shady to let it go.

ESMA

justagirl wrote: »

The bank usually has their own list of people that do valuations on their behalf? It is absolutely not up to the EA to tell you who to approach to do a valuation for your bank - that is very odd - it is not in the banks interest to do this.

Is your EA registered with the PSRA? Also, is the new EA registered? you can check here to see if they have the appropriate license:

http://www.psr.ie/website/npsra/npsraweb.nsf/page/publicregister-reg-of-propserv-prov-en"

Unfortunately, being a little new to this, I accepted the auctioneers advise to appoint a valuer (if they were on the banks list of valuers) He said this would make the process quicker as the valuer lives nearby and could get it done quicker. Unfortunately, on hindsight, this was a terrible recommendation but it made sense to me at the time.

justagirl

ESMA wrote: »

Unfortunately, being a little new to this, I accepted the auctioneers advise to appoint a valuer (if they were on the banks list of valuers) He said this would make the process quicker as the valuer lives nearby and could get it done quicker. Unfortunately, on hindsight, this was a terrible recommendation but it made sense to me at the time.

It is not your fault ... I'm surprised the bank that was lending you the money used a valuer you suggested - but if he is on their list of preferred valuers - that might be the reason.

Firstly, please check the link to the register to see if these EA are licensed (and any future EA you bid on a property with) ......

matrim

ESMA wrote: »

Unfortunately, being a little new to this, I accepted the auctioneers advise to appoint a valuer (if they were on the banks list of valuers) He said this would make the process quicker as the valuer lives nearby and could get it done quicker. Unfortunately, on hindsight, this was a terrible recommendation but it made sense to me at the time.

Have you talked to the auctioneer you were dealing with originally? He must be livid too because he's now lost a sale to someone who he was giving business to

spaceHopper

Have you been told that the sale is off or is it just the add you saw this morning?

ESMA

justagirl wrote: »

It is not your fault ... I'm surprised the bank that was lending you the money used a valuer you suggested - but if he is on their list of preferred valuers - that might be the reason.

Firstly, please check the link to the register to see if these EA are licensed (and any future EA you bid on a property with) ......

Hi, yes I've checked the register thanks - and they are on it.

ESMA

Sale is off - I was never really told - I just had to assume with the new ad up. My auctioneer said he is refunding my deposit. I spoke to the new auctioneer and he is not willing to accept he is at fault here even though he did the valuation and advised me what engineer to use.

HeidiHeidi

Sorry for the predicament you find yourself in - sounds scandalous and disgraceful, even if not illegal.

Can I ask what you mean by "your estate agent"? Surely as a purchaser (I didn't get the impression you were selling as well) you'd only have been dealing with the vendor's EA?

I'm just curious, sorry if a bit O/T.

Banterbus28

You could make a civil claim for damages...

ESMA

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Sorry for the predicament you find yourself in - sounds scandalous and disgraceful, even if not illegal.

Can I ask what you mean by "your estate agent"? Surely as a purchaser (I didn't get the impression you were selling as well) you'd only have been dealing with the vendor's EA?

I'm just curious, sorry if a bit O/T.

Hi, not sure where 'estate agent' came into context. I didn't mention estate agent - it must have been meant to be auctioneer instead - it appeared from a comment on the thread - sorry for confusion.

ESMA

Banterbus28 wrote: »

You could make a civil claim for damages...

Who would I do this through? A solicitor? Would it cost me more than what I would get back?

justagirl

ESMA wrote: »

Sale is off - I was never really told - I just had to assume with the new ad up. My auctioneer said he is refunding my deposit. I spoke to the new auctioneer and he is not willing to accept he is at fault here even though he did the valuation and advised me what engineer to use.

I am sorry to hear this. How much did the valuer/new auctioneer :mad: value the apartment for and was it for more than your accepted offer?

Had the vendor actually 'accepted' your offer? And had your solicitor received contracts?

HeidiHeidi

ESMA wrote: »

Hi, not sure where 'estate agent' came into context. I didn't mention estate agent - it must have been meant to be auctioneer instead - it appeared from a comment on the thread - sorry for confusion.

I'd consider them to be the same thing! Again wondering why you'd have an auctioneer if not selling?

(and again apologies for being O/T - I'm sure you have enough to be worrying about!)

Banterbus28

ESMA wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

You could make a civil claim for damages...

Who would I do this through? A solicitor? Would it cost me more than what I would get back?

You can claim for the costs you incurred i.e. the valuer, engineer, loss of earnings for appointments in relation to house etc.

Talk to a solicitor.

ESMA

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I'd consider them to be the same thing! Again wondering why you'd have an auctioneer if not selling?

(and again apologies for being O/T - I'm sure you have enough to be worrying about!)

The auctioneer is the guy I was buying off

ESMA

Banterbus28 wrote: »

You can claim for the costs you incurred i.e. the valuer, engineer, loss of earnings for appointments in relation to house etc.

Talk to a solicitor.

Yes I must do this - thanks

Banterbus28

ESMA wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

You can claim for the costs you incurred i.e. the valuer, engineer, loss of earnings for appointments in relation to house etc.

Talk to a solicitor.

Yes I must do this - thanks

Team up with the estate agent that got screwed as well. They will have lost commission etc

Graham

ESMA wrote: »

I will start naming all parties involved if I don't get deposit and all expenses back.

Mod Note:

For the benefit of anyone that doesn't already know:

This is not the venue for 'naming and shaming'.

Banterbus28

The basis is that you were working on the assumption that the house was yours and they have behaved in bad faith by not telling you otherwise.

They have messed you about time to wipe the floor with them.

Sinister Kid

I hear face book is good for that... (Name & shame)

Banterbus28

If you name and shame you will be defaming them which will put you in a world of poo

justagirl

Please don't incur any more costs in relation to this property. Talk to your current solicitor - make sure he/she knows its a 'for free' chat - seek their advice to ascertain if you have any right to claim. And hindsight is a great thing but on the next property hold off on the building survey until you know everything else is good and your solicitor has contracts from the vendor.

I doubt very much that your old Auctioneer would be willing to join up with you regarding a claim.... in fact, I'd be stunned.

Banterbus28

justagirl wrote: »

Please don't incur any more costs in relation to this property. Talk to your current solicitor - make sure he/she knows its a 'for free' chat - seek their advice to ascertain if you have any right to claim. And hindsight is a great thing but on the next property hold off on the building survey until you know everything else is good and your solicitor has contracts from the vendor.

I doubt very much that your old Auctioneer would be willing to join up with you regarding a claim.... in fact, I'd be stunned.

For loss of commission?

justagirl

Banterbus28 wrote: »

For loss of commission?

There is no basis for an EA/Auctioneer in this circumstance to claim for loss of commission .... we don't know the full scenario but we do know that the property was given by the vendor to another Auctioneer (this happens.... a lot) - again for reasons we don't know but we can guess that they think the other Auctioneer can get a higher price for them....

Fol20

hdowney wrote: »

Have they still got your deposit also? They sound so shady I wouldn't be surprised if you have a fight on your hands to get that back. Good luck with it, and I am sorry to hear you are going through this.

There is no fight to be had. The seller can do whatever they want until contracts are signed. You can offer an extra 100k over underbidder and he can decline it. Or in my case request for drawdown of funds , solicitors all done and contract deadline expired one day beforehand and they decided to bail.

Fol20

Banterbus28 wrote: »

You can claim for the costs you incurred i.e. the valuer, engineer, loss of earnings for appointments in relation to house etc.

Talk to a solicitor.

The odds of him winning are slim. No contract signed so they can do whatever they want

justagirl

Fol20 wrote: »

There is no fight to be had. The seller can do whatever they want until contracts are signed. You can offer an extra 100k over underbidder and he can decline it. Or in my case request for drawdown of funds , solicitors all done and contract deadline expired one day beforehand and they decided to bail.

So sorry to hear this. It's awful when this happens. I always say ... until you have the key in your hand .. it's not yours.

Banterbus28

Fol20 wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

You can claim for the costs you incurred i.e. the valuer, engineer, loss of earnings for appointments in relation to house etc.

Talk to a solicitor.

The odds of him winning are slim. No contract signed so they can do whatever they want

There was a verbal agreement and costs incurred as a result. There may be emails or texts which support that

justagirl

Banterbus28 wrote: »

There was a verbal agreement and costs incurred as a result. There may be emails or texts which support that

It happens all of the time, I am not saying it is right. But unfortunately, on the little detail we have been given - there is no basis for a legal claim here.

Wildcard7

Fol20 wrote: »

There is no fight to be had. The seller can do whatever they want until contracts are signed. You can offer an extra 100k over underbidder and he can decline it. Or in my case request for drawdown of funds , solicitors all done and contract deadline expired one day beforehand and they decided to bail.

Well in that case I know what I'd do: Look for a new house, and at the same time put down an offer for this house that's higher than the current bid to waste as much of their time as possible.

Graham

Banterbus28 wrote: »

There was a verbal agreement and costs incurred as a result. There may be emails or texts which support that

Agreement in principle perhaps, nothing binding until contracts are signed by both parties.

I'm absolutely open to correction on this if anyone has any interesting case links

Banterbus28

Verbal contracts are binding, difficupt to prove without a witness however if there is a single line in an email agreeing that the house is to be sold to OP then he/she has a good case

Franz Von Peppercorn

Is there not a code of ethics for the valuer, if he is also an estate agent or auctioner. Sounds like the valuer comes over to the house, thinks it’s valued below market and then contacts to seller to get the rights to the house sale. This has got to breach a contract he has with the bank - his job for the bank was to merely make sure the house wasn’t overvalued, not undervalued. An undervalued house is good news for a mortgage provider.

I can’t imagine the banks are too happy with this. And he might have caused them far more monetary damage than the op. I can’t see they would use him again.

Is this a small village or town, op?

justagirl

Banterbus28 wrote: »

There was a verbal agreement and costs incurred as a result. There may be emails or texts which support that

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Verbal contracts are binding, difficupt to prove without a witness however if there is a single line in an email agreeing that the house is to be sold to OP then he/she has a good case

Any EA/Auctioneer that knows what they are doing has something like this in correspondence pertaining to an offer on a property:
"subject to contract/contract denied" .... which covers eventualities like this OP has endured.

Graham

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Verbal contracts are binding, difficupt to prove without a witness however if there is a single line in an email agreeing that the house is to be sold to OP then he/she has a good case

Like I said, would be genuinely interested in links to any cases where a potential purchaser had won a case for consequential losses against a vendor based on a verbal agreement in principle via an agent prior to contracts being signed.

CruelCoin

Banterbus28 wrote: »

If you name and shame you will be defaming them which will put you in a world of poo

Defamation is only a thing if its false.

justagirl

Graham wrote: »

Like I said, would be genuinely interested in links to any cases where a potential purchaser had won a case for consequential losses against a vendor based on a verbal agreement in principle prior to contracts being signed.

Yes - I would be extremely interested as well as have never come across any myself.

Banterbus28

CruelCoin wrote: »

Banterbus28 wrote: »

If you name and shame you will be defaming them which will put you in a world of poo

Defamation is only a thing if its false.

Aye but it would damage your case if part of the claim was acting in bad faith...

Banterbus28

Like I said, talk to a solicitor. Go through all of your outlay etc.