Chemical weapon used on civilians in Syria + Airstrikes

nacho libre

Discodog wrote: »

It's very easy to spot "organised" marches/demos. If they aren't organised you end up shot or in jail.

I've seen this propaganda before with regard to Saddam. Just as Saddam had his supporters so does Assad. If Saddam did not have supporters in Sunni aeras of Iraq, there would have been no sunni insurgency after the War in 2003. They weren't all forced to support him, some did because they did well out of his rule. Just like Tyrants such as Pinochet, and the Argentinian junta had their supporters too. This myth that all support for dictators is coerced is a false narrative.

Gatling

gw80 wrote: »

Any one see or hear about the rally held in support of assad in damascus, literally thousands on the streets, i didn't see it on 6. 01 news. Ill tune in at 9. It will surely be covered, wont it?.

It looked like the trump inauguration -mostly empty ,
Seems he hadn't gotten the support that a minority on here claim is massive and in the majority

Johnny Farango

Someone was looking for the full Fisk article:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

And some analysis:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

Johnny Farango

https://www.globalresearch.ca/robert-fisks-douma-report-rips-away-excuses-for-air-strike-on-syria/5636530 Meant to post this with the Fisk article.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Discodog wrote: »

The OPCW are experts. They have to visit when the site is contaminated not after Russia have cleaned it up

Oh well that's me put back into my box, and all the while I thought they were a bunch of chance'ers :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Johnny Farango wrote: »

Someone was looking for the full Fisk article:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

And some analysis:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-chemical-attack-gas-douma-robert-fisk-ghouta-damascus-a8307726.html

Cheers.

I've a huge amount of respect for Fisk, and actually had him sign my copy of 'Pity the Nation' when I met him in Lebanon.

His wife is Lebanese and comes from a village inside the old Irish battalion's area of operations in south Lebanon.

You'd have to be a complete imbacile to believe Assads forces (or the Russians) would use chemicals against anyone when they're more or less won the war, and certainly the battle for Douma. And not use them when his forces were in retreat.

Assad is no doubt a tyrant, and I know from speaking to work colleagues who's worked in Syria that the regime and people on their side ruled with an iron fist. But Assad is an educated man, he's no fool ~ certainly when you compare him to the idiot in the White House.

Not a chance did he gas Douma

nacho libre

Gatling wrote: »

It looked like the trump inauguration -mostly empty ,
Seems he hadn't gotten the support that a minority on here claim is massive and in the majority

I never claimed support for him was massive, just that there are those who support him. I do not claim to know how many support him

Gatling

nacho libre wrote: »

I never claimed support for him was massive, just that there are those who support him. I do not claim to know how many support him

I never said you did ,

But there is a minority who have regularly claimed the majority of Syrian want him in power based off not a lot other than making a nuence of themselves .

The majority of Posters don't support trump or American foreign policy either.

But that doesn't mean we don't get to discuss Assad and Putin

Gatling

It seems Assad has asked russia for a $400 billion loan to rebuild parts of Syria if the fighting ever stops.

cnocbui

Rogelio Eager Mink wrote: »

Oh well that's me put back into my box, and all the while I thought they were a bunch of chance'ers :rolleyes:

You should write scrips for CSI: ‘Get some bleach and clean up all that blood and those strange stains - and send the victims clothes to the dry cleaners, there’s dirt and handprints all over them. Then get the team to look for evidence.’

cnocbui

Gatling wrote: »

It seems Assad has asked russia for a $400 billion loan to rebuild parts of Syria if the fighting ever stops.

Putin will be laughing for a week solid.

RebelButtMunch

It's all gone a bit tumble weed in here isn't it. It's looking likely there was no gas attack at all. Oh Dear.

Gatling

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

It's all gone a bit tumble weed in here isn't it. It's looking likely there was no gas attack at all. Oh Dear.

Nah it's more of a case of not having to shoot down a constant stream of utter crap ,
Let's see what the OPCW say ,but there not allowed to attribute blame

RandomName2

Gatling wrote: »

But that doesn't mean we don't get to discuss Assad and Putin

There is no 'right' side in this conflict. We have to find what is the 'least bad' option going forward. All the sides are lying, all of them have their own agendas. None of the foreign powers involving themselves in Syria are doing so selflessly.

cnocbui

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

It's all gone a bit tumble weed in here isn't it. It's looking likely there was no gas attack at all. Oh Dear.

Fisk was very clear; he wrote an article that he was careful to point out he was quoting a possibly very biased source and was only able to cover one side of the story. He should have also talked to the White Helmets. We really need independent autopsies of those who died.

Looking at the facial discharges from the dead, I find it hard to believe anyone saying chemical weapons weren't used have actually looked at the videos. A room full of dead women and children and no blood or bodily trauma anywhere.

I suggest you have a look at the disturbing videos - you will need to age-verify on youtube by signing in.

ArchXStanton

cnocbui wrote: »

Fisk was very clear; he wrote an article that he was careful to point out he was quoting a possibly very biased source and was only able to cover one side of the story. He should have also talked to the White Helmets. We really need independent autopsies of those who died.

Looking at the facial discharges from the dead, I find it hard to believe anyone saying chemical weapons weren't used have actually looked at the videos. A room full of dead women and children and no blood or bodily trauma anywhere.

I suggest you have a look at the disturbing videos - you will need to age-verify on youtube by signing in.

The white helmets took off outta town with their Jihadi buddies..

Vital Transformation

cnocbui wrote: »

That article is a reporter parroting a Syrian government official without any corroboration or follow-up whatsoever. Talk about having the wool pulled over. I liked the bit about childrens toys - nice touch. I was rather skeptical until that was mentioned.

See the quotes from lab employees.

cnocbui wrote: »

Yes, Western reporting would hopefully include some checking of claims made.

The original report is from AFP.

cnocbui

Vital Transformation wrote: »

See the quotes from lab employees.


The original report is from AFP.

The lab employees work for the Syrian government. Hardly unbiased. 'oh sure, I knowingly make internationally banned chemical weapons all the time.'

You do know that anyone admitting to chemical weapons manufacturing in Syria would likely be tortured by Assads goons?

Shurimgreat

Fisk always has an axe to grind, usually that the West/Israel/Saudi are the bad guys and Assad/Saddam/Gaddafi/Hezbollah are the good guys.

He's hardly an unbiased commentator. You always know the line he is going to take.

Very few journalists would last long in Damascus if they openly criticised Assad so Fisk is never going to go down that route. As far as he's concerned Assad is the best thing to ever happen Syria.

cnocbui

ArchXStanton wrote: »

The white helmets took off outta town with their Jihadi buddies..

Attacking the White Helmets indicates you are such an independent thinker. I am bemused as to why people would fall for and help propagate such obvious Russian propaganda and misinformation.

News World
Disinformation and Conspiracy Trolling in the Wake of the Syrian Chemical Attack
Kremlin propaganda led to questions and charges that an attack in the city of Douma that killed scores of civilians was a hoax.
By Bethania Palma
12 April 2018


On 7 April 2018, reports began emerging from the opposition-held city of Douma east of the Syrian capital of Damascus that scores of civilians had been killed and hundreds injured in a chemical attack. In response to mounting global criticism, the Russian government, which has allied with the regime of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, ramped up its military-grade propaganda machine in an ongoing to attempt to obfuscate facts.

Although no blame has yet been officially ascribed, this latest deadly attack in the now 7-year Syrian civil war is not unique in that the Assad regime has for years been condemned for using chemical weapons against civilians. In 2013 the regime was accused of using sarin, a nerve agent, in an attack that killed more than 1,400 people in Ghouta.

Reports from the ground in Douma indicate there were at least two strikes, one at 4 P.M. and another at 7:30 P.M. local time. Canisters found at the scene along with symptoms exhibited by victims appear to implicate chlorine gas and “organic phosphorus compounds in the sarin gas category.”

U.S. President Donald Trump has openly blamed the Syrian regime and threatened a missile strike. After the Russians voted down a U.S.-authored United Nations Security Council resolution to investigate the attack, U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley accused the Kremlin of “protecting a monster.”

The disinformation machines have cranked up their propaganda offensive in response to criticism. Russia’s state-funded networks like TASS and RT began churning out stories reflecting the government’s talking points. Both outlets reported on 8 April 2018 that despite witness reports and graphic camera footage from Douma, Syrian government aid workers found “no evidence” of a chemical attack — a conclusion that to no one’s surprise, the Russian government corroborated:

The Russian defense ministry also refuted reports that the Syrian forces had used chemical weapons in Douma in Eastern Ghouta. According to Head of the Russian Center for Reconciliation of the Warring Sides in Syria Major General Yuri Yevtushenko, the allegations that a chlorine barrel bomb had been dropped in Douma by the Syrian armed forces came from the so-called independent non-governmental organizations, including the White Helmets, which is widely known for its fake news.

The Russian embassy Twitter accounts have also revved up the obfuscation efforts:


Scott Lucas, a journalist and professor of political science and international studies at the University of Birmingham, told us although Moscow became militarily involved in the Syrian conflict in 2015, they had a propaganda office at the presidential palace in Damascus since the beginning. “From the very start you could see how they were putting out muddled story lines just to make you uncertain about what’s happening,” he told us.

The White Helmets, also known by their official title Syria Civil Defense, are a non-governmental organization made up of volunteers who carry out rescue efforts in rebel-held territory while wearing small cameras. Aside from saving lives, they have been credited with documenting war crimes. Thus, they are targets of frequent (but unproven and unfounded) smears that they are terrorists who are staging “false flag” attacks.

Lucas told us attacking medical facilities and first responders then accusing them of terrorism is a Russian tactic, because first responders in Syria — where it’s extremely difficult and dangerous for foreign journalists to enter — are often key reporters of atrocities:

The Russians would go after hospitals and first responders and the propaganda would come out that you shouldn’t trust information from White Helmets or doctors because they’re aligned with the terrorists. They were deliberately bombing the area but saying you can’t trust anyone who is reporting it.

Official Russian government channels are not the only sources of misleading information. Lucas pointed to a coterie of Western social media personalities and bloggers who have concentrated their efforts on running interference for the Assad regime.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/04/12/disinformation-conspiracy-trolling-syrian-chemical-attack/

Gatling

I noticed in the fisk reports which seems to have been missed is when he talks about being on the bus for the media who were invited to tour certain locations , most of the media on the bus wore russian military uniforms ,
Makes you wonder how independent some of the media in Syria is and how much is steered by the russian military

ArchXStanton

cnocbui wrote: »

Attacking the White Helmets indicates you are such an independent thinker. I am bemused as to why people would fall for and help propagate such obvious Russian propaganda and misinformation.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/04/12/disinformation-conspiracy-trolling-syrian-chemical-attack/

Its right there in the article...here let me help you out...

"The White Helmets – the medical first responders already legendary in the West but with some interesting corners to their own story – played a familiar role during the battles. They are partly funded by the Foreign Office and most of the local offices were staffed by Douma men. I found their wrecked offices not far from Dr Rahaibani’s clinic. A gas mask had been left outside a food container with one eye-piece pierced and a pile of dirty military camouflage uniforms lay inside one room. Planted, I asked myself? I doubt it. The place was heaped with capsules, broken medical equipment and files, bedding and mattresses.

Of course we must hear their side of the story, but it will not happen here: a woman told us that every member of the White Helmets in Douma abandoned their main headquarters and chose to take the government-organised and Russian-protected buses to the rebel province of Idlib with the armed groups when the final truce was agreed."

Shurimgreat

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Its right there in the article...here let me help you out...

"The White Helmets – the medical first responders already legendary in the West but with some interesting corners to their own story – played a familiar role during the battles. They are partly funded by the Foreign Office and most of the local offices were staffed by Douma men. I found their wrecked offices not far from Dr Rahaibani’s clinic. A gas mask had been left outside a food container with one eye-piece pierced and a pile of dirty military camouflage uniforms lay inside one room. Planted, I asked myself? I doubt it. The place was heaped with capsules, broken medical equipment and files, bedding and mattresses.

Of course we must hear their side of the story, but it will not happen here: a woman told us that every member of the White Helmets in Douma abandoned their main headquarters and chose to take the government-organised and Russian-protected buses to the rebel province of Idlib with the armed groups when the final truce was agreed."

The clue for this is elsewhere in the same article.

The White Helmets, also known by their official title Syria Civil Defense, are a non-governmental organization made up of volunteers who carry out rescue efforts in rebel-held territory while wearing small cameras. Aside from saving lives, they have been credited with documenting war crimes. Thus, they are targets of frequent (but unproven and unfounded) smears that they are terrorists who are staging “false flag” attacks.

Of course they aren't going to wait around to be murdered by Assad to prevent witness testimony at any potential future war crime. They aren't dumb.

ArchXStanton

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The clue for this is elsewhere in the same article.



Of course they aren't going to wait around to be murdered by Assad to prevent witness testimony at any potential future war crime. They aren't dumb.

And yet they took off with a load of head choppers....must have been on the way to collect an Oscar, I wonder if their uniforms have velcro on the side so they can chop and change easily

Shurimgreat

ArchXStanton wrote: »

And yet they took off with a load of head choppers....must have been on the way to collect an Oscar, I wonder if their uniforms have velcro on the side so they can chop and change easily

Can't take your posts seriously especially when you seem determined to portray everyone who isn't on the Assad side as a head chopper.
I suppose the gassed women and children were head choppers too?

Like I said before it seems clear you are on a wind up.

ArchXStanton

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Can't take your posts seriously especially when you seem determined to portray everyone who isn't on the Assad side as a head chopper.
I suppose the gassed women and children were head choppers too?

Like I said before it seems clear you are on a wind up.

Everyone is on a wind up to you, obviously it's your problem that you can't except people have a different opinion,that particular "moderate rebel" group are known for their callousness

Annd9

Not a putinbot just a new account before anybody claims it .......

People are well within their rights to be sceptical about The White Helmets. The group was set up in Turkey by a brit , not a group of concerned Syrians which is widely claimed. Their leader was refused entry to The States on two occasions because of his links to actual "headchoppers "

We should also not forget their famous manikin challenge which proved they are more then capable of faking a rescue or two .

Disinformation is a massive part of the problem in Syria on both sides and it's perfectly reasonable not to believe these guys either.

cnocbui

Annd9 wrote: »

Not a putinbot just a new account before anybody claims it .......

People are well within their rights to be sceptical about The White Helmets. The group was set up in Turkey by a brit , not a group of concerned Syrians which is widely claimed. Their leader was refused entry to The States on two occasions because of his links to actual "headchoppers "

We should also not forget their famous manikin challenge which proved they are more then capable of faking a rescue or two .

Disinformation is a massive part of the problem in Syria on both sides and it's perfectly reasonable not to believe these guys either.

Could you please provide links that show the reasons why Raed Saleh was denied entry into the US, in particular, due to links to terrorist groups. Two articles I have just read said that even USAID who had sponsored his trip to the US to receive a humanitarian award, were not told the reason when they inquired.

When asked by Newsweek to provide details on Saleh's case, a spokesperson said U.S. Customs and Border Protection is “prohibited from discussing the specifics of an individual’s inadmissibility review.” There are more than 60 grounds for being denied entry into the U.S. detailed in the Immigration and Nationality Act, including health-related reasons, criminality and immigration violations.

An individual’s admissibility determination “is an administrative action that is protected by the Privacy Act,” according to Customs and Border Protection.

http://www.newsweek.com/raed-saleh-syrian-civil-defense-denied-entry-us-451637

So some proof of your claims please.

Shurimgreat

Annd9 wrote: »

Not a putinbot just a new account before anybody claims it .......

People are well within their rights to be sceptical about The White Helmets. The group was set up in Turkey by a brit , not a group of concerned Syrians which is widely claimed. Their leader was refused entry to The States on two occasions because of his links to actual "headchoppers "

We should also not forget their famous manikin challenge which proved they are more then capable of faking a rescue or two .

Disinformation is a massive part of the problem in Syria on both sides and it's perfectly reasonable not to believe these guys either.

Lol. Sure you aren't. Interesting your first post on boards.ie sounds like Russian propaganda.

Gatling

It seems somebody is trying their hardest to block the OPCW investigation into chemical weapons attacks

The head of a chemical weapons watchdog has said a UN security team has been shot at in Douma which has delayed the arrival of inspectors to the scene of a suspected poison gas attack.

UN security officers entered the Syrian town to assess the situation ahead of the planned visit by inspectors from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), sources said.


The OPCW inspectors are visiting Douma to investigate an alleged chemical attack on April 7 that it is claimed resulted in scores of civilians being gassed to death.

OPCW director-general Ahmet Üzümcü told a meeting at The Hague that the UN deployment came under gunfire on Tuesday