When will we learn as a nation to keep left unless overtaking

Ahhhh for forks sake!

Jesus, I'm sure this may have been discussed before but I'm starting to lose my ****ing mind. I have been trying to keep my cool but I could feel my anger boiling up inside me on the way home from work today.

I finish at 15:30 on Fridays so traffic isn't usually too bad (ie, the motorway is fairly empty). The traffic may be sparse but it's ****ing spread evenly across all three lanes of the M50 thus effectively reducing it to a poxy one lane road.

The scenario is usually as follows, a lorry in the inside lane (where they belong), a car trotting along in the middle lane at a speed roughly matching that of the lorry and a car in the outside lane doddering along. So, to drive legally, I do a three-lane manoeuvre and move in behind the person in the outside lane, and lo, the suddenly hit the brakes and indicate to move out to take their exit.

Suddenly, the cars in the middle and inside lane are overtaking us on the left which forces me back into the inside lane.

Rinse, repeat, ad-****ing-nauseam.

How simple is it to keep left unless overtaking. I definitely think five dedicated Garda cars moving up and down each carriageway of the M50 between 6 AM and 10 PM, seven days a week will not only clean up behaviour but also pay for the time and Garda resources PLUS probably make a profit for the country wen they're at it.

I despise lane hoggers.

Sorry. /Rant.

Autochange

How about people who drive at 160 kmh in the right lane. The people who are constantly overtaking.
How do you feel about them?

Philb76

I have to travel n7 and may as well get rid of lane 1 even the trucks and buses sit in middle lane most of the time

Del2005

Autochange wrote: »

How about people who drive at 160 kmh in the right lane. The people who are constantly overtaking.
How do you feel about them?

They are in the correct lane at least.

Del2005

Deedsie wrote: »

I saw 3 tractors crawling along the M7 yesterday. 60km/h is not an appropriate speed on a motorway. No sign of any of the roads policing unit of course.

If it can exceed 50 its allowed on the motorway, there is no minimum speed limit on our roads. So you can drive a 300km/h car at 5km/h on a motorway and nothing can be done to you.

dr.fuzzenstein

Just read the 4837473 threads that were opened on the very same subject on this forum in the last few weeks alone.
Always goes the same. Ranting against lane hoggers, someone suggest undertaking, angry 20 page debate on legality of same, angry 5 page argument over the use of the term "fast lane", more angry ranting over dawdlers, angry ranting about tailgaters, suggestion of brake-checking, someone wetting their knickers that someone might break the speed limit, someone suggesting that they drive slow on purpose because they have a right to drive how they see fit and then the 80km/h brigade arrive, i.e. people who force trucks and everything else to overtake them (10 page debate on trucks overtaking). And I'm actually in favour of giving these people a tricycle or bus pass, because anyone who is unable to at least keep up with a truck on a motorway, well l think they're the kind of person who has Velcro shoes and isn't allowed out unsupervised.

antodeco

The problem is, if you move back into the left lane, you will never back into the right lane again.

2 weeks ago, I was in the middle lane, overtaking those in the left lane (for about 2 minutes of travel time). There were sporadic cars in the right lane. I pulled into the right lane (about 6 cars distance between the 2 cars in the right lane). Guy in the right lane then speeds up and starts flashing me waving his hand. His mate must have been in the car up ahead as then he slows down to a speed of 60kmh to "box me in". Morons. I wasn't pulling a fast one. I was literally moving into the correct lane to overtake but these guys wanted the ight lane to themselves.

If there's enough room for a car on your left to pass you, pull in in front of you, pass the car in the middle lane and then pull back in, you are clearly in the wrong lane. That's the problem with Irish drivers. They all think people are trying to to get one up on them, so they drive in the most obnoxious way possible even if they are 100% in the wrong.

McCrack

Del2005 wrote: »

If it can exceed 50 its allowed on the motorway, there is no minimum speed limit on our roads. So you can drive a 300km/h car at 5km/h on a motorway and nothing can be done to you.

I think driving without due care and consideration might apply to someone driving at 5 kmh on a motorway

To the OP I think just chill out and use the lane of least resistance to overtake and make progress

The Royal Scam

Deedsie wrote: »

I know it's just my opinion and not law but those 3 tractors really disrupted the flow of traffic on the motorway. Didn't seem an appropriate road for them to be travelling on.

I'm no farmer but is it more appropriate for them to use N and back roads and causing massive distruption on them? Adding huge journey times to themselves and other road users attempting to manoeuvre around 3 tractors.
They are are as entitled as you are to use the motorway if the can travel above 50 km/h.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

The mind boggles. Empty road and she was just sitting there in the middle lane. I got a nice two finger salute for giving a (well-deserved) blast of the horn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr_s6kzvjGo

darlett

....when hell gets a covering of black ice. You can't cure stupid I'm afraid! And when the motorway ends and drivers have to face a roundabout, thats when we really get creative on some fairly basic rules.

doolox

Northbound at approx 5pm today (Sunday 15th April) a 5 series blue BMW doing 90 kph on the outside lane near the Finglas junction and still there at the Lucan junction toddling along and being passed by cars in the middle lane.

Also the cars on the inside lane from Blanch to Lucan tend to go the fastest of all three lanes. This is not the first Sunday I have observed this phenomena of the fastest lane on the M50 being the almost empty inner lane.

Also you find characters who trundle onto the M11 and the M50 at the slowest speed possible in the single lane entry ramps holding every one up behind them and entering the prevailing traffic at suicidally slow speeds. When the followers try to overtake them THEN they speed up to thwart them or swing into the middle lane to defy them and force them into the outer lane to execute the overtake.

Some people just hate being overtaken but lack the necessary skills and experience to drive properly and are jealous of those who do.

LeBash

I just drove the entire length of the M50 and up the M1 to Balbrigan. Even on an almost empty M50 it's happening.

It's the 3rd most annoying thing on the road behind no indicators (especially at a busy round-a-bout when they take your exit and you miss your chance to get onto it) and cyclists breaking red lights and when you almost plow them out of it, they get upset.

grogi

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

The mind boggles. Empty road and she was just sitting there in the middle lane. I got a nice two finger salute for giving a (well-deserved) blast of the horn.

In fairness - the signs above the motorway (0:30) were clear:
- left lane - Exit 4 - R132
- middle & right lane - continue on M1 towards Belfast

doolox

Two cyclists one a courier type always in a hurry and the other a Lance Armstrong wannabe coming towards a junction. One had the lights the other hadn't but did not stop. Big collision and much leppin' and cussin' ensued. If they had rifles it would be the Hatfields and McCoys all over again..... Top class entertainment.

jaxxx

I'm kinda glad to be living in Limerick all my life, never having to deal with more than 2 lanes at a time

limnam

Just back from Italy and it was like a bloody dream driving on the motorways

I'm not sure if the whole of Italy is like this, but in the north trucks over a certain size are limited in speed and it's illegal for them to overtake. So unlike Ireland were you get caught behind some idiot in a large truck snailing in the overtaking lane trying to overtake another one.

Then people overtake and are straight out of the lane. I'd nearly move over. Bliss.

Larbre34

In answer to the OP, until I get around to flaming up behind every single one of them and flashing them into submission. I'm aware this is aggressive behaviour, but its the norm on the continent where there is zero tolerance for lane ill-discipline.

A more genuine answer would be, until there is compulsory motorway driving instruction included in the learner driver syllabus. The fact we need simpleton RSA adverts showing someone using lanes properly makes the whole nation look like f**ktards.

A few years back a buddy of mine in Garda Traffic took me out for a high-speed spin in a marked Mondeo V6. It was a bit of fun, but what stuck with me was the high number of dopes in the overtaking lanes who failed to notice sirens and flashing blue lights and headlamps right up their chuff. The lack of alertness of so many on the road is breathtaking.

bloodless_coup

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

The mind boggles. Empty road and she was just sitting there in the middle lane. I got a nice two finger salute for giving a (well-deserved) blast of the horn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr_s6kzvjGo

135km/h? Are you aware of the speed limit mr perfect?

doolox

Did the trip from Venice to Verona couple of years ago and you will not be tolerated for long dawdling in the outer lane, in their case the left lane. Most of the civilised parts of the continent are like that where outer lane hoggers are not tolerated by anyone. Only the UK (worse than Ireland ) and Ireland have these dog in the manger outer lane hoggers who will not move in.

From what I see online the US is as bad but this is more often due to outer lane exits, urban congestion and a history of insanely slow federally imposed speed limits brought in by the second worst Georgian world leader in History, not Stalin, but Jimmy Carter who hailed from Georgia and was definitely not from the Texas or the American West, huge states with huge distances to cover and in need of high speeds to do it. Carters measure of nation wide 55mph speed limit is got rid of in most states but has had a dampening effect on car driving and driver skills in the US. Most people there treat their cars as a mobile sitting room, eating, on the phone etc when they should be paying attention to their driving. The cops also have a puritanical attitude to speed limits and you have to contend with multiple layers of cops, town state county etc all vying for business.

Germany is where its at for speed but they have a draconian speed related fine structure for non autobahn driving, the faster you go over the speed limit the more you pay not like here where a driver at 1kph over gets done the same as one 20 kph over.....

chicorytip

jaxxx wrote:

I'm kinda glad to be living in Limerick all my life, never having to deal with more than 2 lanes at a time

You find another type of traffic hazard down here. Jaywalkers!!

Skatedude

I'm driving to work at 6 am, the m50 is almost empty and you still see feckers pulling unto the motorways and go straight to the outer overtaking lane?

WHY? the road is empty? I never understood it.

Samuel T. Cogley

Simple fact is many, many people believe on a three lane motorway the inside lane is for joining, the middle is for driving and the outside is 'the fhast lane'.

If you're in the middle lane you don't have to worry about merging traffic and can get on with watching Netflix, texting or whatever.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Isambard

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

yeah I know, already deleted my post.

kerten

I was like OP until I started to use M50 daily. It is actually quite tiring(also dangerous for mid line hoggers who doesn't want to deal with traffic) to progress at 100-110 km/h if you try to squeeze into mid lane traffic averaging 80 km/h after overtaking the bucnh doing 60 km/h.
I gave up after a month trying. Now doing 110-120 km/h on overtaking lane and give way anyone who wants to go faster than me. 
I think it is not a symptom of not knowing what lanes are for more like symptom of lazy driving as a whole.

Henry Ford III

Lane discipline in Ireland is very poor in general. Even enforcement of lane discipline is equally poor, so nothing changes.....

munchkin_utd

limnam wrote: »

Just back from Italy and it was like a bloody dream driving on the motorways

I'm not sure if the whole of Italy is like this, but in the north trucks over a certain size are limited in speed and it's illegal for them to overtake. So unlike Ireland were you get caught behind some idiot in a large truck snailing in the overtaking lane trying to overtake another one.

unless the law has been recently changed, trucks are banned from ever overtaking on 2 lane Irish motorways , and the rules of the road state this :

Do not use the outside lane if you are driving:
• a goods vehicle with a design gross weight of more than 3,500 kilogrammes
such as a lorry or heavy goods vehicle (HGV)

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf - page 7

another example of the guards not enforcing the law it seems.

DPolo

munchkin_utd wrote: »

unless the law has been recently changed, trucks are banned from ever overtaking on 2 lane Irish motorways , and the rules of the road state this :


http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf - page 7

another example of the guards not enforcing the law it seems.

See this daily on the M2, takes them over 2km to pass each other, garda sit on the little ramps but don't come out.


Unfortunately it stems from never learning to use motorways/dual carriageways correctly from the start, most driving instruction for learners is kept within villages and town centres for the most part

doolox

The charming slang term given when two trucks try and overtake each other and take forever to do it. Doing 90 kph in a 120kph zone blocking everyone else up.

Trucks are limited to about 90kph by electronic limiters, I think these are compulsory but small variations between trucks encourage some truck drivers to overtake each other at 1/10 kph speed difference holding everybody else up.
Much worse are granny drivers being over taken at 70-80 kph by a truck who suddenly speed up and prevent the truck from overtaking. When the truck aborts the manoeuvre the granny slows back down to 70kph dictating the speed of the hapless trucker until he makes a second attempt. This comedy can continue for ages much to the fury and disgust of drivers held up behind by these antics.

I am convinced that some people of an evil disposition game the system by not holding their slow speed when overtaken by a truck and do so deliberately out of sheer spite.

DaveyDave

I rarely drive outside Dublin and never use the M50. Went to the airport on Friday morning and the amount of times I needed to change lanes was just silly. I'd overtake because the left lane is doing 80 then because everyone wants to drive in the middle lane, the left lane ended up going faster. Moved back over, slowed down again then couldn't move back into the middle lane because some **** is matching my speed and sitting on my rear.

Then I went out to the Kildare outlets twice, there was a number of people driving in the middle lane under the speed limit so I'm on the N7 and have to move into the third lane and go back into the first lane.

I've lost count of how many times I've had someone in the middle lane pass me only for me to pass them again because they can't maintain a speed, repeat several times.

Then coming home I had to overtake several slow cars and there was the same ****ing red Polo on the middle lane constantly, driving at the same speed.

Something needs to change. Half the time it's some middle-aged woman who hasn't got a clue.

I'm so happy I don't have to deal with this everyday. What's the point on having a motorway network if you can't just cruise at a constant speed? Ridiculous.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

newmember2

DaveyDave wrote: »

...there was a number of people driving in the middle lane under the speed limit so I'm on the N7 and have to move into the third lane and go back into the first lane...

I flash any cars in the middle lane that I have to overtake from lane one.

Is there nothing about keeping left in the theory test? They need to put it in bold at the top of the driving licence cert you get when you pass the test I think, outlining the dangers of not doing so on a motorway.

jester77

I was driving back in Ireland for the first time in a very long time last month, and the level of driving is very poor, and a lot of the time very dangerous. Respect to anyone that has to do a lot of daily driving, I can see easily see how road rage incidents could occur.

And parking :eek: Not sure what the point of white lines and disabled signs are as even in half empty car parks the amount of people that can't get it right was amazing.

PaddyWilliams

Unfortunately, the attitude Will never change. When I used be driving back to Dublin on a regular basis, I would always drive in the inside lane on the N7 and was always quicker. People were always jockeying for position in the middle and overtaking lanes, while in the meantime I was tipping along at 100km/h in the inside lane getting to my destination quicker!

limnam

munchkin_utd wrote: »

unless the law has been recently changed, trucks are banned from ever overtaking on 2 lane Irish motorways , and the rules of the road state this :


http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf - page 7

another example of the guards not enforcing the law it seems.

Interesting. Wasn't aware of it.

It seems from my limited experience anyway in Italy for the most part they abide by it, you see streams of trucks in the "right" lane.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

I was driving along the M1 and an unmarked Garda car overtook me at a slightly higher speed. The car was a brand-spanking-new Ford Mondeo and there were no discs in the window. The driver had what appeared to be a sky blue shirt with some kind of epaulettes. So I'm probably right in my assumption that it was a Garda.

He moved into the inside lane behind a van driving well slower than everyone else undertaking him. I thought the blues and twos would come on ............ but no.... the Garda just sat behind him. I was reluctant to undertake the convoy myself in case I got done.

Jesus, if Gardaí don't enforce the rules or don't even know them ... then what hope do we have?

Blanc von lobster

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

I was driving along the M1

Jesus, if Gardaí don't enforce the rules or don't even know them ... then what hope do we have?

I was on the southbound M50 this afternoon and saw a Garda car overtake about six cars in the middle lane....
Maybe he wrote down all the reg plates are will send out tickets, but for some reason I really doubt it..

highdef

grogi wrote: »

In fairness - the signs above the motorway (0:30) were clear:
- left lane - Exit 4 - R132
- middle & right lane - continue on M1 towards Belfast

She was clearly in the wrong lane for at least kilometre before that first sign.... And even at that point, the road markings have not changed to indicate that the left lane was an auxiliary lane. I'd bet she was in the middle lane long before the video started.

Ahhhh for forks sake!

highdef wrote: »

She was clearly in the wrong lane for at least kilometre before that first sign.... And even at that point, the road markings have not changed to indicate that the left lane was an auxiliary lane. I'd bet she was in the middle lane long before the video started.

Spot on. I'd been meaning to respond to that point.

You are only meant to move right when the left most lane becomes and auxiliary one. For what it's worth, she swung left and the last minute and took the same exit as me for Rush / Lusk / Donabate etc.

lalababa

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Keep on topic.

:eek:

Larbre34

The Guards will never ever ever enforce lane discipline, unless someone has seriously impeded a patrol car or bike in the process. In fact, Garda vehicles are often as bad as the rest.

Its up to those of us that don't drive along in a menopausal haze.

highdef

Ahhhh for forks sake! wrote: »

Spot on. I'd been meaning to respond to that point.

You are only meant to move right when the left most lane becomes and auxiliary one. For what it's worth, she swung left and the last minute and took the same exit as me for Rush / Lusk / Donabate etc.

That sort of the driver is the most annoying type. Same thing happens all the time on the N4 westbound between junctions 4 and 5. Left lane lane becomes an auxiliary lane a few hundred metres before junction 5. You'll frequently have drivers dawdling along in the middle lane at 60/70 kmph (80 is the limit), not moving over to the left lane even with a queue behind and left lane clear. Then, as soon as the left lane becomes and auxiliary lane, they pull over to the left and exit at junction 5.

I'd love to know what is going on in their heads, in terms of why they think they should stay in the middle lane until the left lane turns into an auxiliary lane.

largepants

munchkin_utd wrote: »

unless the law has been recently changed, trucks are banned from ever overtaking on 2 lane Irish motorways , and the rules of the road state this :


http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf - page 7

another example of the guards not enforcing the law it seems.

I thought this was only on a 3 lane motorway. As far as I know it is permitted on a 2 lane motorway.

micks_address

Often on the m50 I'll be in the right lane at 100kph overtaking for a good stretch when someone will come up behind be doing 120 plus.. I'm still overtaking cars on my left so feel obliged to get out of the way which I do when safe to do so. Lane hogging might be an issue on the m50 but so is speeding. Very few people seem to obey motorway speed limits..

The Bishop Basher

micks_address wrote: »

Often on the m50 I'll be in the right lane at 100kph overtaking for a good stretch when someone will come up behind be doing 120 plus.. I'm still overtaking cars on my left so feel obliged to get out of the way which I do when safe to do so. Lane hogging might be an issue on the m50 but so is speeding. Very few people seem to obey motorway speed limits..

If everyone drove correctly you'd be overtaking the cars in the middle lane and the cars going faster then you would be able to overtake you in the outer lane.

With modern cars and good roads there's no reason why those cars overtaking you couldn't be doing so at 150 / 160 kph perfectly safely..

Our inability as a nation to comprehend and follow some simple rules will always prevent us from fully utilising our road network as frustration aside, over 30% of the M50's capacity is taken up by poor lane discipline.

Isambard

Swanner wrote: »

If everyone drove correctly you'd be overtaking the cars in the middle lane and the cars going faster then you would be able to overtake you in the outer lane.

With modern cars and good roads there's no reason why those cars overtaking you couldn't be doing so at 150 / 160 kph perfectly safely..

Our inability as a nation to comprehend and follow some simple rules will always prevent us from fully utilising our road network as frustration aside, over 30% of the M50's capacity is taken up by poor lane discipline.

the difference between an accident at 120 and at 160 must be quite significant. There's a reason for you

The Bishop Basher

Isambard wrote: »

the difference between an accident at 120 and at 160 must be quite significant. There's a reason for you

You could say the same about the difference between an accident at 40 kph and 80 kph.

Following your logic we might as well reduce all limits nationwide to 20 kph in case anyone ever gets hurt.

micks_address

Swanner wrote: »

Isambard wrote: »

the difference between an accident at 120 and at 160 must be quite significant. There's a reason for you

You could say the same about the difference between an accident at 40 kph and 80 kph.

Following your logic we might as well reduce all limits nationwide to 20 kph in case anyone ever gets hurt.

I think anyone doing 140 on the m50 is nuts, the amount of close calls from late breaking and lane swerving to avoid collisions is amazing. I bet if everyone kept to the speed limits we'd have less delays on the m50.. I'd rather drive the whole length of it at 80kph than stop start like I was for 40 minutes this morning.. I actually think the proposed variable speed cameras will help.

micks_address

Swanner wrote: »

Isambard wrote: »

the difference between an accident at 120 and at 160 must be quite significant. There's a reason for you

You could say the same about the difference between an accident at 40 kph and 80 kph.

Following your logic we might as well reduce all limits nationwide to 20 kph in case anyone ever gets hurt.

Are you considering reaction times and breaking distances?

rabbitinlights

Swanner wrote: »

With modern cars and good roads there's no reason why those cars overtaking you couldn't be doing so at 150 / 160 kph perfectly safely..

The jump from 120 to 160 would have substantial effects, primarily on the driver - it's exhausting driving at that speed for prolonged periods of time.

140 kph would be nice, but I'm under no illusion that it would cause it's own problems.