UFC 223 | IAQUINTA VS KHABIB | SAT. APR. 7, 2018

Tazzimus

MrStuffins wrote: »

And here is the problem. You completely fail to acknowledge the existence of the middle-ground.

You fail to see me acknowledging the middle ground

Khabib is a terror if he grabs hold of you and your wrestling/stamina isn't god level.
On the flip side of that, his stand up is atrocious, and he would be pucked around by someone who is a top tier striker.

Middle ground is: If he grabs you, you're most likely in for a very long night. If you can keep him off you, he looks very human and punchable.

For the record by the way, as you think I'm biased, I'm a fan of his soul crushing wrestling. His wrist control is a thing of beauty.

Inviere

Joanna - Submission

martyos121 wrote: »

15 minutes, not 25. Huge, huge difference.

Mellor wrote: »

No we didn't. We we see him dominate 3 rounds, and by the 3rd Barboza was dead on his feet, and Khabib was able to slow the pace.

Last night was the only time Khabib has been past the 3rd round.

Indeed, my bad. I suppose ultimately, if he got Conor down early enough in a round, I don't believe Conor survives with enough gas to get the job done. The closest we've seen to that was the Mendes fight, & while Conor was quite impressive ont he ground that night, Khabib is a different ball game. Conor's tdd is high level imo, but I'm not sure I see it holding off Khabib for very long. Of course, Conor could spark Khabib when he's on the way in...ya never know really. Will we even see the fight?

Sofiztikated

I watched the Johnson fight the other day, and can't remember the commentary.

He was hit, and maybe off balanced, but far from wobbled.

The way he switches from side to crucifix control was fluid, but those wrist controls? Damn near cheat mode.

Call Me Jimmy

Although Al apparently has KO power, his technique didn't look the absolute best (and was obviously scared ****less of being taken down), but how and ever khabib looked very comfortable taking the few shots he did.

I think the people who say it's a toss up between him and conor are closest to the truth. Conor could knock him out or khabib could ground and pound. I would lean towards Conor just because I think he is in a different stratosphere to most MMA strikers, but it's just guesswork

Lukker-

What is interesting to me is, now that we've witnessed Khabib go 5 rounds, his lauded gas tank and pressure don't hold up fully. His single legs lost all pop after he locked in that one in the first one (as ridiculous as it was). Than he was reliant on pressuring against the cage and getting the clinch to score judo trips. Al's defensive BJJ was quite effective too, he was willing to take risks to get out of position, because the one sure way to lose to Khabib is to let him ride you. Af

But after midway through the second round he couldn't even get Al to the cage, he'd reset before . I think he didn't want to shoot any more than he had to in case he gassed out hard and got wobbled. Both himself and Conor do their best work inside the opening 8 minutes. It's absolutely necessary that Conor doesn't get taken down in that period. It's gonna be a really interesting opening exchange, who will be walking who down? I think this shows Khabib's pressure isn't unrelenting, you can evade him with footwork, you just can't fall into the traps he sets.

Anyways, whoever faces him next will be much better positioned. There is 25 minutes of tape that wasn't there before, and although Khabib is outrageous at what he does, he's not the perfect fighter by any means.

Sofiztikated

Lukker- wrote: »

What is interesting to me is, now that we've witnessed Khabib go 5 rounds, his lauded gas tank and pressure don't hold up fully. His single legs lost all pop after he locked in that one in the first one (as ridiculous as it was). Than he was reliant on pressuring against the cage and getting the clinch to score judo trips. Al's defensive BJJ was quite effective too, he was willing to take risks to get out of position, because the one sure way to lose to Khabib is to let him ride you. Af

But after midway through the second round he couldn't even get Al to the cage, he'd reset before . I think he didn't want to shoot any more than he had to in case he gassed out hard and got wobbled. Both himself and Conor do their best work inside the opening 8 minutes. It's absolutely necessary that Conor doesn't get taken down in that period. It's gonna be a really interesting opening exchange, who will be walking who down? I think this shows Khabib's pressure isn't unrelenting, you can evade him with footwork, you just can't fall into the traps he sets.

Anyways, whoever faces him next will be much better positioned. There is 25 minutes of tape that wasn't there before, and although Khabib is outrageous at what he does, he's not the perfect fighter by any means.

Yeah, I think the stand and trade might have been the "father plan" that he was told to stick to, to make sure he had enough left to see the later rounds.

Whether Conor could weather the storm of the first 2 rounds of hell, and have enough pop to do damage or not, I don't know. I'd imagine Khabib would target his legs, rather than go high, to use the ACL injury to his advantage, but I think the rangey left combined wide karate stance hopping back would connect.

That high handguard protecting his head, no idea of the name, his elbows and shoulders winging the blows Al threw was effective enough too.

mailburner

Rose - Submission

Both conor and Khabib probably need to get it done in the first two rounds I agree with that
Then you have Tony who can go full throttle for five
Worst match up for both these guys by a mile especially for Khabib imo

I want to see Tony Khabib fight more than any

TerrorFirmer

That was a really interesting fight. I think Joe Rogan said it well when he said that Khabib was easily winning the fight but not dominating. Al remained dangerous right until the end and the prospect of a 'big hit' was always there.

Good watch overall. Taught us alot about Khabib.

TerrorFirmer

Also, Joe Lauzon, what the heck happened there? He was terrible, gassed so incredibly early and was a spent force by the end of the first round.

Subcomandante Marcos

Khabib - Submission

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Also, Joe Lauzon, what the heck happened there? He was terrible, gassed so incredibly early and was a spent force by the end of the first round.

I think there's just too many miles on the clock. You can only take so many wars before you can't fight that way anymore. I think it's time for Joe to hang up the gloves.

mailburner

Rose - Submission

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Also, Joe Lauzon, what the heck happened there? He was terrible, gassed so incredibly early and was a spent force by the end of the first round.

I think it's time he retired tbh
Too many wars and you can't but help think he'd have taken Chris gru a few years ago
He's just a tough fighter these days with little else going for him
It's as bad as I've seen him

Lukker-

Fair play for Lauzons corner throwing in the towel.

EagererBeaver

Lukker- wrote: »

Fair play for Lauzons corner throwing in the towel.

Fair play but it should have been done even sooner.

Mellor

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'll need to watch this one again but I don't really remember this being a robbery. I remember thinking Khabib won it. But i'll watch again.

I need to watch it myself also. Wasn't suggesting it was a robbery btw. More so that it was the closest he came to losing anything.

hatrickpatrick

Do ye think there's any possibility that we'll ever get to see Khabib vs Ferguson, or is anyone else getting the vibe that Dana and the UFC have gotten sick of trying to make it work and reluctantly abandoned the idea after recent events?

ardinn

It'd be great if they dont make the fights until the night!! get 6 lightweights to train and whoever turns up on the night you decide then who fights who - If conor, fergy, kebab, holloway, alvarez etc etc etc all turned up and made weight and all had a camp you would have a great night and can afford 4 pullouts! Fat chance of that happening though but it would be a great concept considering the history of tony v kabib.

xtal191

Rose - Decision

ardinn

Wow

Imagine your coach coming out and saying "do you think we are gonna come out amd stand with nate or conor - Hell no"

Basically saying your fighter isnt able for them! I dunno maybe it's just me but thats a horrendous thing to say - It's 100% true - but he shouldnt say it, believe it or even think it!!

Subcomandante Marcos

Khabib - Submission

ardinn wrote: »

Wow

Imagine your coach coming out and saying "do you think we are gonna come out amd stand with nate or conor - Hell no"

Basically saying your fighter isnt able for them! I dunno maybe it's just me but thats a horrendous thing to say - It's 100% true - but he shouldnt say it, believe it or even think it!!

I doubt JK is going to be coming out and saying "yeah we're going to go to the ground with Khabib". It's the same thing.

ardinn

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I doubt JK is going to be coming out and saying "yeah we're going to go to the ground with Khabib". It's the same thing.

No but he would come out and say that if it goes to the ground we are confident our guy can get back to his feet - defend well - attack from underneath - etc etc etc - Not - "Well if it goes to the ground we are fúcked altogether" Basically like yer man said!!

Subcomandante Marcos

Khabib - Submission

ardinn wrote: »

No but he would come out and say that if it goes to the ground we are confident our guy can get back to his feet - defend well - attack from underneath - etc etc etc - Not - "Well if it goes to the ground we are fúcked altogether" Basically like yer man said!!

But that's not what Javier Mendez said. He said they wouldn't try and stand and trade with someone like Conor they way they did with Al. It's just common sense, Conor wouldn't be shooting doubles on Khabib or Tony, his entire game plan for those fights would be to avoid being taken down or becoming involved in scrambles on the ground.

ardinn

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

But that's not what Javier Mendez said. He said they wouldn't try and stand and trade with someone like Conor they way they did with Al. It's just common sense, Conor wouldn't be shooting doubles on Khabib or Tony, his entire game plan for those fights would be to avoid being taken down or becoming involved in scrambles on the ground.

My point is he admitted his man is weak in a certain department of his game which is a big no no for sports psychology! Confidence based athletes must believe they are the very best at everything they do! It's quite unusual to hear a trainer say what he did in the way he did "Hell no" was used instead of, "we would attack his weak ground game"! Im not saying he is not right, im saying there is better ways of saying it - No big deal just something I thought was weird to say!

Outlaw Pete

Rogan responded to the criticism with the following:

It is insanely rare to have a fighter as dominant as Khabib. In one of the most talent stacked divisions to go 25 and 0 is incredible, but to do it without even having a rough moment in a fight is completely unheard of.

The closest thing to adversity he’s had to face in the Octagon before Saturday was one solid punch that was landed by Michael Johnson in a fight that was otherwise a horrifically one-sided mauling. When I’m commentating on someone that dominant I am constantly looking for cracks in their armor, and on Saturday night we saw the first of those cracks exposed by an incredibly game Al Iaquinta.

Most people, myself included, expected the highly favored Khabib to rag doll his last minute opponent the way he’s done to everyone else he faced in the Octagon, and that was the case in the early going, but as the fight got into the later rounds Al was able to keep the fight standing and we saw some possible flaws in Khabib’s defense. Make no mistake about it, Khabib won that fight by a landslide, but it went to a decision, and that in and of itself was an upset.

When I’m looking at a fighter as spectacularly talented as Khabib fighting a guy like Al who is an almost impossible underdog I’m not just looking at this fight, but I’m looking at openings that can possibly be exploited by the best fighters in the division. I saw some of those openings Saturday night, and I certainly found them interesting. In no way am I biased against Khabib, in fact I’m a massive fan of his and he’s one of my all time favorite fighters. If any of you were annoyed by my concentrating on that aspect of an incredibly dominant performance by one of the most impressive guys in the history of the division, please accept my sincere apology.

When I commentate on fights my goal is to highlight the action and make it more exciting for the fans at home. Obviously all this is done live in real time, and if I had to go back and do it again I would often be able to do a better job. Even after all the years I’ve been commentating I still learn something new about the position with each and every event, and when that stops happening that will most likely be when I quit.

I think he makes a lot of good points tbf. If you are watching a Premiership team play a much lower division one, then the Premiership side doing something well doesn't stick out, as that's what they should be doing, and then some. What you notice more (and is far more interesting) is if and when the lower division team perform far better than you expect them too, and that's all I think that was going on there. I certainly don't think he hates the guy as the title of one of the videos claims.

rogieop

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Rogan responded to the criticism with the following:




I think he makes a lot of good points tbf. If you are watching a Premiership team play a much lower division one, then the Premiership side doing something well doesn't stick out, as that's what they should be doing, and then some. What you notice more (and is far more interesting) is if and when the lower division team perform far better than you expect them too, and that's all I think that was going on there. I certainly don't think he hates the guy as the title of one of the videos claims.

All he is doing is hyping the fight, like you say, its the same as a prem game being 3 nil at half time, the commentators will always talk about the possibility of either an incredible comeback or running up a big score. They are not going to tell you to turn to a different channel.

Its all part of the hype train. I remember being convinced Stephan Bonnar had a chance against Anderson Silva ffs! They are extremely good at what they do.

Mellor

ardinn wrote: »

My point is he admitted his man is weak in a certain department of his game which is a big no no for sports psychology! Confidence based athletes must believe they are the very best at everything they do! It's quite unusual to hear a trainer say what he did in the way he did "Hell no" was used instead of, "we would attack his weak ground game"! Im not saying he is not right, im saying there is better ways of saying it - No big deal just something I thought was weird to say!

It's unusual because most coaches are full of shit in situations like that. It's no secret that Khabib is a phenomenal grappler, and it's no secret that Conor is a phenomenal striker.
There's little point in pretending otherwise tbh.

Confidence based athletes must believe they are the very best at everything they do!

I could not disagree with that more strongly with that tbh. It's the completely opposite that it true.
Fighters need to believe they are the best at the strengths and recognize their weaknesses.

Perfect example, Ronda Rousey. Edmundo was filling her head with delusions of striking prowess. Look how that turned out.

Sofiztikated

Just saw the supposed pay takes.

How in the name of jaysis does a fighter that's cancelled (Pettis) make more than the loser of the comain?

Pettis $135k
Joanna $130k

SureYWouldntYa

Wasn't his fault the Chiesa fight fell through, usually they'll give guys their show money if they weigh in on point since Pettis did everything he was supposed to do to make the fight happen

Sofiztikated

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Wasn't his fault the Chiesa fight fell through, usually they'll give guys their show money if they weigh in on point since Pettis did everything he was supposed to do to make the fight happen

I get that, but surely the comain event should be better paid.

SureYWouldntYa

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I get that, but surely the comain event should be better paid.

True but Anthony is a semi big name who's headlined ppvs in title fights before and that's reflected in his contract, Johny Hendricks is in a similar boat as Pettis and his pay is 100k+

Joanna isn't a big name in fairness and how many more eyes would she alone have drawn to the card, it's reflected in the pay

Subcomandante Marcos

Khabib - Submission

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Just saw the supposed pay takes.

How in the name of jaysis does a fighter that's cancelled (Pettis) make more than the loser of the comain?

Pettis $135k
Joanna $130k

Pettis contact us a legacy from from when he was champion and on the Wheaties box and a massive star.

Joanna got ppv points for being co-main.