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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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    #152
    Billgirlylegs
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Billgirlylegs


    seamus wrote: »
    Wow, that was a quick turnaround for such an incredibly long case.

    Justice is justice, if the jury who sat there and heard all of the evidence weren't convinced it was rape, then it probably wasn't.

    There of course are people who had already decided the outcome of this case who won't be happy, but sure isn't there always.

    One genuine issue which did come up in the conduct of the case was the disparity in the cross examination of the woman versus the men. She was basically grilled for the guts of a week on a short history of her adult life, whereas the defendants only questioned for half the time on their conduct on the night in question.

    Whether this is something that can be rectified I don't know, but it certainly creates a huge barrier for anyone wanting to make a complaint of rape. You have to be prepared to open your entire life up to public scrutiny and prove that you're lily white, whereas the person you accuse just has to account for their behaviour that day/night.

    Hasn't this always been the case?


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    #153
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    GLaDOS wrote: »
    A lot of people were convinced of their guilt and only wanted one verdict.

    It's a huge problem with these cases. Some people seems to automatically want a guilty verdict in rape cases.
    Owryan wrote: »
    Twitter has gone into maximum outrage mode. Apparently they got away with it cause they are famous/rich/men/ part of the establishment, it was all a con.

    Expected these lines to be rolled out. Particularly the "rich" line. Don't think rugby players make that much money to be honest. Nowhere near as much as footballers, for definite.
    Owryan wrote: »
    Plenty of women now claiming it should be all female juries for rape cases from now on.

    Jesus wept, that is sad and pathetic.


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    #154
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is this an early manifestation of a sort of reaction to what feminism has become though?..

    Well, I don’t know. As said in another post, I have a friend who is a feminist and she thought the men were innocent based on the evidence.


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    #155
    patmac
    Registered Users Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭patmac


    Some Garda friends of mine reckoned it would never have got to court here, for what that’s worth. It hinged on the girl walking into the room during the middle of it and no reaction from the accused and the fact she went back upstairs a second time.
    The whole thing seemed a waste of time and no-one wins.


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    #156
    Max Prophet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Max Prophet


    Zulu wrote: »
    I feel sorry for the girl, whether or not she was telling porkies or not, it's a sorry sorry affair.

    Can she now be charged for wasting police time?


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    #157
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    As for my opinion on it, I think it was a situation that got out of hand. Jersey puller, lots of alcohol, someone walking in on her and then it’s out of hand. Can’t imagine the guys were very respectful of her that night if they spoke so crudely of her the next day


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    #158
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,236 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Berserker wrote: »
    What are you on about? You need to cross examine people who make claims of this nature in the necessary detail. If it takes that amount of time to get through everything then it takes that long.

    You could cross examine me right after I come home from the shop about the past hour of shopping and I'd probably contradict myself if you asked me about minute detail enough times. Defence lawyers are in the business of generating confusion and uncertainty and that's very easy to do, especially months later when alcohol was involved


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    #159
    sightband
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 670 ✭✭✭sightband


    py2006 wrote: »
    Its just blokes being blokes.

    Maybe on pornhub, but in general no it’s not blokes being blokes. Most blokes idea of a good time or getting a ride doesn’t include having your pals flute at the other end of whatever you have your flute in.


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    #160
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    py2006 wrote: »
    Guys in their position and more so footballers, boybands and movie stars have women throwing themselves at them. You can't blame young blokes for taken advantage (perhaps poor choice of word) of the situation. High fiving each other. Its just blokes being blokes.

    However, today's climate may change that.

    There’s nothing wrong with sleeping with loads of women. You can do that and still treat those willing women with basic respect.


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    #161
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    Raul Mysterious Revenge wrote: »
    If it’s just blokes being blokes speaking about a girl like they spoke about her the following day, then blokes need to take a good long look at themselves.

    Possibly.

    But I am sure women who managed to score a famous and wealthy guy for a one nighter go straight to tell the girl friends too of their conquest!


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    #162
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Owryan wrote: »
    Plenty of women now claiming it should be all female juries for rape cases from now on.

    Feminazis, not feminists. These types don’t want equality whatsoever, which is what feminism should be about. That’s the problem with widespread broadband, WiFi, smartphones etc. Every simpleton has the ability to put their trash out there into the twittersphere at the touch of a button and others latch on.


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    #163
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    py2006 wrote: »
    Guys in their position and more so footballers, boybands and movie stars have women throwing themselves at them. You can't blame young blokes for taken advantage (perhaps poor choice of word) of the situation. High fiving each other. Its just blokes being blokes.

    However, today's climate may change that.

    That used to be thrown around to excuse lots of behaviour. You shouldn't write off any behaviour because of someone's gender.


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    #164
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Skid X wrote: »
    If I had to account for my actions on any random day, I would end up contradicting myself several times if I had four of the best lawyers in Northern ireland poking holes in my story.

    You should never worry about contradicting yourself, as long as you are telling the truth.
    It's that easy.


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    #165
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    sightband wrote: »
    Maybe on pornhub, but in general no it’s not blokes being blokes. Most blokes idea of a good time or getting a ride doesn’t include having your pals flute at the other end of whatever you have your flute in.

    True. some people are into that.

    Not for me.


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    #166
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #167
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Glad this trial is over, and justice has been done. I think the whole sordid episode is bad for everyone involved. The lads careers are, I would imagine over - they are not guilty of rape, but their behavior was less than pleasant, and I doubt any sponsor would want to be associated with them. I don't know if the girl was lying or if she really believed she had been raped, but either way she has a lot of pain in her future too I'd imagine.

    I have sons and I can only hope I raised them better than this.


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    #168
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Mr_Muffin wrote: »
    So can they now press charges against her for a false rape alligation against them?
    Not as far as I can recall, they are acquitted but they’re not found to be innocent it just means that the prosecution couldn’t prove their case beyond all reasonable doubt


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    #169
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    My sis and I were discussing the case. She said “I tend to believe women when they say they were raped”. “Always?”, I asked. “Always”. This is commonplace. I wonder would she be grand with her husband being falsely accused?

    Not all feminists are like this though. I have a friend who is a feminist and she thought the men were innocent based on what she had read of the case.

    I'm neither feminist nor mysogynist, nor a juror on the trial so I didn't hear all of the evidence, but from what I did hear and read, I'd say there was plenty of reasonable doubt, so the result seems a fair one.


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    #170
    Jimbob1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Jimbob1977


    The plaintiff's female friend damaged the Prosecution's case from the early days.

    Stuck her head into the bedroom, but didn't see anything illegal.

    If a female friend doesn't back you up, it's going to be a tough job to get a conviction.


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    #171
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    seamus wrote: »
    One genuine issue which did come up in the conduct of the case was the disparity in the cross examination of the woman versus the men. She was basically grilled for the guts of a week on a short history of her adult life, whereas the defendants only questioned for half the time on their conduct on the night in question.

    Whether this is something that can be rectified I don't know, but it certainly creates a huge barrier for anyone wanting to make a complaint of rape. You have to be prepared to open your entire life up to public scrutiny and prove that you're lily white, whereas the person you accuse just has to account for their behaviour that day/night.

    Surely how long someone spends on the stand is solely dependent on the strategy of the defense/prosecution? I don't see how it's a gender issue. The defense obviously would want to try and discredit her by going through the minutiae of her life, this would take a while especially if each defendant had their own lawyer. If the guys weren't kept up there for as long then maybe the prosecution didn't find it would benefit them to do the same.


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    #172
    Tsipras
    Closed Accounts Posts: 493 ✭✭Tsipras


    Shouldn't have made it to court


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    #173
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    What are you talking about??? I read the messages and I maintain there is only a certain breed of men who speak about women like that. You clearly are in that bracket apparently

    Snide little insults.....you clearly are in a bracket which is all on its own and 10 time worse than those people......


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    #174
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    patmac wrote: »
    Some Garda friends of mine reckoned it would never have got to court here, for what that’s worth. It hinged on the girl walking into the room during the middle of it and no reaction from the accused and the fact she went back upstairs a second time.
    The whole thing seemed a waste of time and no-one wins.

    I was chatting to a Garda here about it also and he told me the same thing. Also said that any jury worth it's salt would clear them in a few hours. He was bang on to be fair to him.


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    #175
    kingtiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    patmac wrote: »
    Some Garda friends of mine reckoned it would never have got to court here, for what that’s worth. It hinged on the girl walking into the room during the middle of it and no reaction from the accused and the fact she went back upstairs a second time.

    yes this was it for me as well, that is reasonable doubt right there

    but saying that I saw a pic of the girl is question and this may of swung my opinion in the lads direction as well (this was bias on my part though)


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    #176
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    The plaintiff's female friend damaged the Prosecution's case from the early days.

    Stuck her head into the bedroom, but didn't see anything illegal.

    If a female friend doesn't back you up, it's going to be a tough job to get a conviction.

    Am I right in saying that the accuser didn't want that woman involved in the case at all? I thought I read somewhere?


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    #177
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,120 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    The plaintiff's female friend damaged the Prosecution's case from the early days.

    Stuck her head into the bedroom, but didn't see anything illegal.

    If a female friend doesn't back you up, it's going to be a tough job to get a conviction.

    Wasn't she the one said she saw Jackson having sex with the woman? Apparently she lied too, as he allegedly did no such thing. Those lying wimmins and their evil ways.


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    #178
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,032 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Mr_Muffin wrote: »
    So can they now press charges against her for a false rape alligation against them?

    A false rape allegation would be some woman claiming they had sexually assaulted her even though she hadn't even been with them at all or anywhere near a bedroom.


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    #179
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Every lads group on Watsapp has the exact same BS in it....

    Speak for yourself.


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    #180
    C__MC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    The plaintiff's female friend damaged the Prosecution's case from the early days.

    Stuck her head into the bedroom, but didn't see anything illegal.

    If a female friend doesn't back you up, it's going to be a tough job to get a conviction.

    They where not friends


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    #181
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    There’s nothing wrong with sleeping with loads of women. You can do that and still treat those willing women with basic respect.

    I agree with you. They may have been right dickheads, arrogant and downright disrespectful but that’s not illegal. Feelings don’t come into it in a court of law. The jurors will have done well to keep all that in their minds. I’m sure the judge reminded them of their duty to do that too.


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