Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

py2006

eviltwin wrote: »

Not guilty just means the prosecution was unable to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

It doesn't mean the accused didn't do the crime.

Doesn't mean they did either nor does it mean some people can use that analogy to suggest guilt.

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facehugger99

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Absolute disaster of a case for everyone except the lawyers.

Plus ca change

C__MC

facehugger99 wrote: »

Plus ca change

The 4 lads would have been out pocket but did she get free legal aid?

Christy42

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have a huge issue with this. If you are found not guilty of a crime, you should be able to proclaim you are innocent.

This is a huge double standard.

The issue is innocent leads to the woman must have been lying which is not at all true (I am suggesting you have said this but others are giving out about her - she should receive the assumption of innocence as well).

That is why there is the distinction of not being found innocent. She, equally, has not been found to be lying.

ED E

Im not sure this shouldnt impact their careers. Clearly not the nicest of blokes - not the kind who should represent the nation.

And no, not all lads talk like that. Thank you very much.

Isshelying

Aegir wrote: »

I think the verdict is correct. It was basically a 1 v 4 argument that was never going to pass in a court of law. So yes, they aren’t guilty.

Innocent would imply these lads are angels and they aren’t. The way they treated this girl was shocking and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Not guilty of rape, but guilty of being sleezy dirty scumbags.

In my opinion of course, but then, I have a daughter and if this ever happened to her, I would not be relying on the law courts to sort it out.

And you'd be 100% in the wrong and probably end up assaulting a man who engaged in consensual sex with your daughter. Just because you arent impressed with how your daughter behaved its no excuse to target innocent men.

Its this attitude that the woman is always the victim that is ridiculous. She chose to engage in what some people would describe as depraved sex and then felt embarassed about it. Her problem, not the four men who were hauled through the courts.

overshoot

david75 wrote: »

Apparently the judge in the case has previous and oversaw a trial where a guy raped a 12 year old got her pregnant and somehow walked out free from the court.
He pretty much instructed this jury to find these lads innocent.

Personally I believe her.

Given the judge's name is Patricia Smyth, i'd be fairly confident the judge is a woman.
Considering you apparently know all about her trial history and missed that part would say you dont know as much as the jurors who have spent weeks listening to the evidence and after a morning unanimously said the lads were innocent.

mickey1979

I have faith in the system, 12 of their peers were asked to judge and found them not guilty. The jury heard all the information and were asked to convict beyond a reasonable doubt they could not.

I am not that old, still just under 40 and some of what goes I find hard to stomach but morals are always changing who knows what really happened. By my moral compass I find the whole lot rather sickening. Everyone involved is damaged by it there are no winners.

C__MC

C__MC wrote: »

The 4 lads would have been out pocket but did she get free legal aid?

For what? Do you think she was poring over statements and medical exam results or something?

erica74

Mr.H wrote: »

Being raped you are a victim. You didnt choose to be a victim. It was the act of a sicko.

Being accused or rape you are accused by someone of committing that crime. The accuser knowingly made you that sicko.

As I said you can get help and justice for one and not the other

You're very very wrong.

Glebee

Ulster says no.

cee_jay

Mebuntu wrote: »

The woman (women) made their own decision to go back to the house willingly - for tea and biscuits? - I think not. Well done, the Jury.

Victim blaming much?

Isshelying

....... wrote: »

This is utter nonsense, all 4 lads were fully supported by their family, friends and fans throughout the trial.

And they didnt have legions of people tearing them to shreds before any verdict was given. Even their captain was dragged through the mud because he supported them, #notmycaptain

Make all the excuses you want, its a horrific thing to do to a man but some people can only see women as victims instead of the heartless sociopaths some of them are.

Sidebaro

Isshelying wrote:

While rape is a horrible thing, a rape victim is just that, a victim. They get any amount of sympathy, support and anonymity. There is a chance that their attacjer will be very harshly punished.

Not every rape victim comes forward and not all the ones that do have it as easy as you suggest here.

Mr.H

eviltwin wrote: »

Counselling and time don't undo a rape, I speak from 32 years experience.

Besides I'm not sure a who has it worse debate is helpful.

I am not saying it will undo it. I am saying time and counselling can help you to live with it.

I am also saying that time and counselling will not help these innocent men to get their reputations back. Hell not even reputations. What about their friends and family members that might not 100% trust them anymore? That kind of thing damages people to the very core. They are innocent by the way. We are not talking about people who actually raped anyone!!

Actual rapists we can have a separate discussion about how we should torture them until they die a very slow death but we are talking about innocent men who now have no way to get through this accusation.

Its easy for peopel to see what I am saying a feign some sort of shock horror and think I am disgustiing for saying it. But I am comparing two different things.

One: A person being raped is horrible. They deserve all the support in the world and as far as I am concerned we do not give them enough justice as a society.

Two: A person wrongfully accused of rape. This usually happens because a person feels embarrassed about a sexual act. they claim they were raped. They make their sexual partner a criminal! For the rest of their lives the accused will have to live with this accusation. Friends and family who support them will still have small doubts. Their future kids and grand kids will always have doubts.

So yes One is worse than the other. You can have a life and a future with one but not the other.

wdmfapq4zs83hv

I think the verdict was innevitible given the amount of reasonable doubt. The testimony of the witness who walked in would have been key. I think biggest issue here was alcohol. Consent becomes a very blurred line where too much alcohol is involved. In my day this would have been seen as a night you would rather forget. These days there is just so much at stake to get yourself too drunk that you become mixed up in a situation like this. Wether you are the victim or the accused.

Mr.H

facehugger99 wrote: »

Given the deeply misogynistic attitudes displayed by 'the lads', I think they can count themselves lucky they haven't suffered a worse outcome

yea they are lucky!!

Innocent yet they have to live with this for the rest of their lives. Nice!

facehugger99

py2006 wrote: »

So they were lucky there weren't found guilty of rape based on immature comments?

Very lucky indeed, why else do you think said comments were introduced by the prosecution.

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Mutant z

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

"Not guilty" is not the same as "innocent", and it all came down to he-said she-said. I don't think any of us are in the position to know what truly happened on that night. We've only heard a fraction of a percent of what evidence was in the trial.

Well they were found not guilty what more do you need.

jr86

Listening to Jackson's solicitor's comments a lot of the days lost to "legal issues" the mob were giving out about on Twitter, was actually as a result of stupid, ill-informed Social Media commentary. Completely unsurprising.

It was a disgrace throughout the trial

Glebee

Joanna Thankful Case wrote: »

I think the verdict was innevitible given the amount of reasonable doubt. The testimony of the witness who walked in would have been key. I think biggest issue here was alcohol. Consent becomes a very blurred line where too much alcohol is involved. In my day this would have been seen as a night you would rather forget. These days there is just so much at stake to get yourself too drunk that you become mixed up in a situation like this. Wether you are the victim or the accused.

Im glad i was not around in your day....

py2006

facehugger99 wrote: »

Very lucky indeed, why else do you think said comments were introduced by the prosecution.

Are you suggesting those comments means the are guilty of rape or am I misreading you?

I agree the comments were nasty.

ED E

#IBelieveHer is blasting away at the minute.

py2006

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At least she isn't in the main stream media around the world.

VinLieger

ED E wrote: »

#IBelieveHer is blasting away at the minute.

Yup quite a bit of chip on shoulder comments based more on the guys backgrounds as rugby players showing this is not so much about the rape but people simply don't like them and others like them

Mr.H

Sidebaro wrote: »

If you say one thing is worse than another then you kind of are downplaying it, no?

Surely if counselling and time can get you to live with being raped then it would work for being falsely accused also?

Equally, if no amount of time or counselling can erase an accusation then it also can't erase such a traumatic thing like being raped?

So counselling can stop people from calling you a rapist??

nonsense

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Yes!!!!

Assetbacked

Anne1982h wrote: »

I believe her solely because I have no idea why you would put yourself through that incredibly public and humiliating trial if nothing bad actually happened at all. It doesn’t make sense.

It's not uncommon for girls to enjoy being used in that way, treated like a sexy toy or being gangbanged.

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