Smart Home Security System

Ted Simpson

Hello all, I'm looking to get a smart home security system which would be compatible with products such as Google Home, Philips Hue and and Nest to name a few. What system currently availbale would be my best bet?

2011

For smart home security system I think you would be better off posting here.
The focus of this forum is more on security and less about home automation. The next generation of alarms is not mainstream in Ireland yet, but it is on the way.

There is a very interesting discussion about a powerful alarm by Cytech that will meet all of your home automation needs on this thread.

KoolKid

Siemens Vanderbilt currently have some integration in place and GSD are currently looking at Alexa integration.

Ted Simpson

KoolKid wrote: »

Siemens Vanderbilt currently have some integration in place and GSD are currently looking at Alexa integration.

Ok, from what I read it looks like the Cytech comfort system is better though with more integration with lights, thermostats etc.

I have google home, ultimately what I want to be able to do is tell google to arm or disarm the house with a simple phrase.

KoolKid

Ted Simpson wrote: »

I have google home, ultimately what I want to be able to do is tell google to arm or disarm the house with a simple phrase.

Looking at the Alexa development app I'd be confident this will be a standard feature across the board. Alexa (and other similar hubs) have skills which are basic apps that run on the voice command . This in turn contacts the app/server to execute the command. I wonder if some might try charging for these,:rolleyes:

bk

I think there will be different levels of integration with Home Automation that will come over the next year or two.

At the basic level is the ability to arm/disarm your system using voice or other similar triggers (IFTTT actions, SmartThings routines, etc.).

At a more advanced level you will have systems where the alarm system sensors can be used for other non security related matters. E.g. PIR detect motion and turns of lights, window sensor detects a window being opened and turns off the heat, etc.

This more advanced level already exists in the US in systems like ADT SmartThings, Go Abode, etc. but they haven't made their way to the UK/Irish market yet. But it is only a matter of time.

BTW at the basic arm/disarm level a couple of common alarm systems in the UK and Ireland, such as the above mentioned Cytech, Yale, Honeywell, HKC, etc. can be made to work with SmartThings with a bit of hackery, but probably beyond most regular peoples abilities.

2011

Ted Simpson wrote: »

Ok, from what I read it looks like the Cytech comfort system is better though with more integration with lights, thermostats etc.

Yup, the more mainstream systems will eventually catch up.

I have google home, ultimately what I want to be able to do is tell google to arm or disarm the house with a simple phrase.

That is easily done with HKC right now.
Simply connect a Sonoff WiFi switching device to a key switch zone on the system and get Google Home (or Alexa) to operate this with a simple phrase. For security the Sonoff can be installed within the alarm panel.

KoolKid

2011 wrote: »

That is easily done with HKC right now.
Simply connect a Sonoff WiFi switching device to a key switch zone on the system and get Google Home (or Alexa) to operate this with a simple phrase. For security the Sonoff can be installed within the alarm panel.

That could be achieved with any panel that has key switch zones.
Ideally integration via the apps cloud would be much more useful.

2011

KoolKid wrote: »

That could be achieved with any panel that has key switch zones.

Absolutely, I justed used HKC as a good example as it is the system that more people know.

Ideally integration via the apps cloud would be much more useful.

Already done.
Sonoff allows integration through an app in addition to voice control via Alexa (as requested by the OP). Further enhancements are possible with IFTTT thanks to Sonoff

manmachine

Hi All,
We have the windows and doors wired but never got around to installing the alarm. Was looking at some of the off-the-shelf DIY wifi options and they look more functional and way cheaper.

As pointed out above, the most popular US options (SimpliSafe, Abode) still not available here. Looks like Yale's Sync system is one of the main emerging options in the UK / Ireland.

Any thoughts?

bemak

Looking at something similar myself. Leaning towards Yale although I like the look of Simplisafe which can now be purchased in the UK. An internal siren though - how good is that really?

bk

bemak wrote: »

Looking at something similar myself. Leaning towards Yale although I like the look of Simplisafe which can now be purchased in the UK. An internal siren though - how good is that really?

Personally I wouldn't be happy not having an external siren. It is an important feature of alarm systems in the UK/Ireland. It says, I've an alarm, go somewhere else.

Of course it won't stop all burglars, but tends to discourage more opportunistic thieves. A lot of home security is making your home look like it is more trouble then it is worth and try for an easier target.

If you do go for this, I'd also at least get a fake external siren. Not ideal, but better then nothing.

BTW I've got the Yale, it is far from perfect, but I'm actually quietly impressed with some of its features and I'm happy enough with it for now. Of course no guarantees.

bemak

Ya the Yale might be worth it just for the yellow sign on the front of the house! I'm not too fussed about having connectivity via apps etc - I just want a nice, clean, simple looking system that works. The simplisafe to be fair to it looks really good but you'd question how well it works, particularly if you read the reddit reviews.

However they have a good discount at the moment so it's quite attractive. Must read up on it a bit more

bemak

i just looked at the simplisafe website there and you can buy additional sirens (weatherproof) so that should work. I would definitely have something for optics on the external wall as well. I'm not too fussed about having control via an app etc. Just looking for something clean and simple that works. Simplisafe does look nice if it works. But a quick scan on reddit would have you questioning it.

bk

I hadn't realised Simplisafe had become available in Europe, great to see new options. Hopefully a lot more to come, Ring, Nest, SmartThings, GoAbode, etc.

I do feel that these US companies need to make more effort to localise them for the UK/Irish market. I know SABB's aren't normal in the US, but it really shouldn't be difficult for them to add a battery wireless one for our market.

BTW I was just looking at Simplisafe, does it really require a £20 per month subscription for remote app control and monitoring?!

If true, then that is pretty rubbish and not at all worth it. I'd go for the Yale instead that offers free remote control and monitoring.

bemak

bk wrote:

BTW I was just looking at Simplisafe, does it really require a £20 per month subscription for remote app control and monitoring?!

That's a very good spot. Seems to be required alright. Joke! Yale it is! Out of interest, what's good and bad about your own system?

bk

One other issue with the Simplisafe, for anyone reading this, it looks like it uses 434MHz for it's sensors. That is pretty poor. 434Mhz is a pretty noisy and crowded frequency now it lots of interference. Most European alarm systems including Yale, HKC, etc. have moved onto 868MHz, which is much better for alarms.

bk

bemak wrote: »

That's a very good spot. Seems to be required alright. Joke! Yale it is! Out of interest, what's good and bad about your own system?

Well I've got the slightly older Yale Smart Alarm system, there is now the newer Yale Sync, that may fix some of these issues.

- Doesn't support shock sensors for windows. But then neither does Simplisafe or most other DIY systems (there are some exceptions).

- The keypad definitely feels cheap and it is a bit awkward to use, it has no screen or audio voice, just some LED lights, so hard to figure out what is wrong (e.g. window left open when arming).

My old HKC keypad is far better, feels better built, buttons much easier to reliably press and has a screen and voice and sounds to tell you what is happening. Simplisafe keypad looks like that.

Having said that, we rarely use the keypad, mostly use the app and apple watch app to arm/disarm, so not really a big deal, we mostly use the keypad as a backup.

- Only single channel comms. Notifications are sent over your broadband only, there is no 3G mobile backup option. Also no polling that I can see. These aren't a big issue for me as I've got IP cameras with 5 minutes polling, but could be an issue for others.

- The PIRs and window and door sensors are a bit big and old fashioned looking. Though the new Yale Sync ones look nicer.

Pros:

- Very cheap cost. Really good value for money IMO. A lot of protection for relatively low price.

- Supports a SABB that is wireless and seems to work well. SABB's are something that seems to be missing from lots of DIY systems and I think it is important to have in Ireland. With Yale you can even have multiple SABB's and they are affordable, so extra protection to have one at both front and back of home.

- PIR's, contacts, keypads, remotes, etc. are all pretty cheap, so relatively easy and affordable to add more in future if you need.

- System seems very reliable. Something I worried about before buying. A few times when I've triggered the alarm accidentally, it has worked as expected. Alarm went off, tons of noise and app notifications came immediately.

- App notifications and emails are very reliable from what I've seen, they come through immediately.

- The app is ok, but not great, it can be a little slow to log in sometimes, but it does work, arm, disarm, etc. all work fine.

- They recently added an apple watch support, which is great for arming/disarming.

- They also recently added support for Philips Hue lights. This means if the alarm goes off, all your Philips Hue lights will flash red, turning your whole home into a massive SABB, very cool and I don't think many thieves would stick around with it doing that.

- I'm impressed that they seem to be constantly actively updating their software, updating the apps, adding new features every month or two, etc. Much better then some other alarm system companies, who seem to create an app and then never upgrade it, etc.

Originally I got this system in a sale for a very cheap price. I thought I'd use it as a stopgap until better DIY systems come along, but I've actually been quickly impressed with it.

Of course no guarantees with any of this. Everyone has different needs and budget and even with the most expensive system, there is no guarantee that it will stop a burglar.

bemak

Thanks for that BK. Very comprehensive overview and I think you've convinced me to go with the Yale (primarily due to the shortcomings of Simplisafe that I wasn't aware of). When you refer to SABB's - I assume you're referencing the box that goes on the outside wall?

And while the keypad mightn't indicate where potential issues are, I assume the app would be quite detailed in this regard? I quite like the fact that its just a simple keypad

bk

bemak wrote: »

Thanks for that BK. Very comprehensive overview and I think you've convinced me to go with the Yale (primarily due to the shortcomings of Simplisafe that I wasn't aware of). When you refer to SABB's - I assume you're referencing the box that goes on the outside wall?

Yes, Self Activating Bell Box (SABB), the box on the wall outside the house.

bemak wrote: »

And while the keypad mightn't indicate where potential issues are, I assume the app would be quite detailed in this regard? I quite like the fact that its just a simple keypad

Yes, it will tell you which doors/windows are open if you try and arm it from the app and there are loads of other settings in the app.

BTW if you aren't in a rush, the new Yale Sync system turns up in Amazon sales and deal of the days from time to time with up to €60 off.

golu

Vanderbilt SPC is possible to integrate with the most common Home Automation systems, e.g Homey, Fibaro, Home Assistant, Control4. You can even do your own binding to your favourite Home Automation system.

For more info please see https://www.lundix.se/smarta-losningar and
https://www.spcsupportinfo.com/SPCConnectPro/?page_id=1772

bemak

Went with Yale. Got a decent price on the full kit (includes smoke sensor/pir and wifi plug). Hopefully it's seamless enough!

NIMAN

bemak wrote: »

Went with Yale. Got a decent price on the full kit (includes smoke sensor/pir and wifi plug). Hopefully it's seamless enough!

Could you drop some feedback in this thread once you have it up and running a while, as I might be tempted to get something like this myself.

bemak

NIMAN wrote:

Could you drop some feedback in this thread once you have it up and running a while, as I might be tempted to get something like this myself.

Ya will do. I will install it and give it a few weeks to see how it works out and then I'll post a but if a review.

bemak

Installed the Yale Smart Sync last week. It has been a very seamless and straightforward experience. I actually did it over a few nights as I only had an hour each evening so I put up the motion sensors one night, the door contacts another night and then the external box. The fact that everything is paired out of the box meant that there was no messing with trying to link them all up.

The system is very easy to use however I can see why the app gets bad reviews - it's not a slick experience but once you know where all the settings are, there's very little to it after that. I was plagued by notifications and alerts from the alarm at the beginning which was very reassuring but I've paired these back to the essentials.

I was sceptical about how good a sensor the smoke alarm was going to be but it has an excellent field of view and completely covers the first floor landing, including the stairs from the second or third step at the bottom.

We have PVC windows which means the frame isn't flush on the interior side - this makes it difficult to get the contact to work and they end up looking very clunky. But I saw a very neat trick on an Amazon review whereby you can get a pack of small 5mm diameter magnets and embed them into the window frame. This avoids the need for the yale contact and keeps everything nice and neat.

Having installed everything - I'm going to get 5 more window contacts and 1 motion sensor for the sitting room and that will have me covered.

On a seperate but related note - I installed a Netatmo Presence Security Camera for my parents over the weekend. The install is a bit fiddly as outlined in a lot of reviews but once set up - the camera has been excellent and I will be looking to get one myself in the near future.

Officer Giggles

bk wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't be happy not having an external siren. It is an important feature of alarm systems in the UK/Ireland. It says, I've an alarm, go somewhere else.

Of course it won't stop all burglars, but tends to discourage more opportunistic thieves. A lot of home security is making your home look like it is more trouble then it is worth and try for an easier target.

If you do go for this, I'd also at least get a fake external siren. Not ideal, but better then nothing.

BTW I've got the Yale, it is far from perfect, but I'm actually quietly impressed with some of its features and I'm happy enough with it for now. Of course no guarantees.

Hi BK,

Just a couple of questions about the Yale Sync if you don't mind.

Does the alarm continue to work as a normal alarm if the internet goes down and do you get a notification if the power/internet goes down.

Thanks

bemak

yes it does

Officer Giggles

bemak wrote: »

yes it does

How often does the system poll the network connection, I couldn't see it mentioned on the website

bemak

Officer Giggles wrote: »

How often does the system poll the network connection, I couldn't see it mentioned on the website

no idea I'm afraid

bk

Officer Giggles wrote: »

Hi BK,

Just a couple of questions about the Yale Sync if you don't mind.

Does the alarm continue to work as a normal alarm if the internet goes down and do you get a notification if the power/internet goes down.

Thanks

I don't have the Yale Sync, but the older Yale Smart Alarm System, though they seem to be much the same, just more modern looking devices.

Yes, the alarm continues to work as a basic bells and lights alarm if the power goes out for up to 12 hours.

However from my experiments, it doesn't notify you if the power goes out. It doesn't seem to have any polling. Our at least not fast polling.

Maybe the Yale sync has or maybe I need to try for longer. I only tried for 30 minutes.

There are ways around these issues if you want.

Officer Giggles

bk wrote: »

I don't have the Yale Sync, but the older Yale Smart Alarm System, though they seem to be much the same, just more modern looking devices.

Yes, the alarm continues to work as a basic bells and lights alarm if the power goes out for up to 12 hours.

However from my experiments, it doesn't notify you if the power goes out. It doesn't seem to have any polling. Our at least not fast polling.

Maybe the Yale sync has or maybe I need to try for longer. I only tried for 30 minutes.

There are ways around these issues if you want.

Thanks for the response.

At 30minutes the polling would be useless anyway.

I presume there's an app or something that could notify you.

bemak

ya, the app is quite good. it was revamped lately. I tested it a few times and received push notifications within 2 or 3 seconds of anything being triggered.

bk

Officer Giggles wrote: »

Thanks for the response.

At 30minutes the polling would be useless anyway.

I presume there's an app or something that could notify you.

The Yale Alarm app does indicate if the Hub is online or not. But is seems a bit hit and miss and it only works if you actually look up the app, you don't get a notification, so not really useful.

Personally I've two other smart devices that have sub 5 minute polling. Logitech Circle IP cameras and SmartThings hub. So either way I'll know if my broadband is down from them, so the lack of this feature is a pity, but not really an issue for me.

There is an unofficial API for the Yale alarm, that works with Python, Groovy, Nodejs, that allows you to control the alarm, check it's state, arm, disarm, etc. Allows you to integrate into other Home Automation systems, etc.

It might be possible to build your own polling with that interface, but I need to play around with those interfaces first to confirm that, at the moment, it is looking 50/50 on this.

Personally I think Yale Alarm + one or more Logitech IP cameras makes for a good combination and helps fix the polling issue. On the one hand, sucks to have to buy a second device, on the other hand IP cameras are a good addition to any home security system.

Another option is the Honeywell Evohome Alarm system. They have one that has dual path comms, works over wifi by default, but can fall back to GSM if the wifi fails. I don't know if it has polling.

I don't have this system myself, so I can't vouch for it, the dual path is an obvious pro, but from what I've read, the app and notifications aren't as good as the Yale. So pros and cons.

And of course their are the pro install systems like HKC, GSD, Siemens, which can be configured with dual path and polling.

bk

bemak wrote: »

ya, the app is quite good. it was revamped lately. I tested it a few times and received push notifications within 2 or 3 seconds of anything being triggered.

Yep, the latest app refresh seems much faster and more reliable then in the past.

Though it is somewhat of a weird UI design. The old design was slightly better I think. But the new one actually works better and gives you more useful info (which windows/doors open, etc.).

Notifications have always been great, pretty much instantaneous and I don't remember it ever failing once. Really good.

Playing with the API, the cloud service seems super fast too.

Officer Giggles

Thanks BK, great info for me in your posts

buddyboy

bemak wrote: »

Installed the Yale Smart Sync last week. It has been a very seamless and straightforward experience. I actually did it over a few nights as I only had an hour each evening so I put up the motion sensors one night, the door contacts another night and then the external box. The fact that everything is paired out of the box meant that there was no messing with trying to link them all up.

The system is very easy to use however I can see why the app gets bad reviews - it's not a slick experience but once you know where all the settings are, there's very little to it after that. I was plagued by notifications and alerts from the alarm at the beginning which was very reassuring but I've paired these back to the essentials.

I was sceptical about how good a sensor the smoke alarm was going to be but it has an excellent field of view and completely covers the first floor landing, including the stairs from the second or third step at the bottom.

We have PVC windows which means the frame isn't flush on the interior side - this makes it difficult to get the contact to work and they end up looking very clunky. But I saw a very neat trick on an Amazon review whereby you can get a pack of small 5mm diameter magnets and embed them into the window frame. This avoids the need for the yale contact and keeps everything nice and neat.

Having installed everything - I'm going to get 5 more window contacts and 1 motion sensor for the sitting room and that will have me covered.

On a seperate but related note - I installed a Netatmo Presence Security Camera for my parents over the weekend. The install is a bit fiddly as outlined in a lot of reviews but once set up - the camera has been excellent and I will be looking to get one myself in the near future.

Friendly bump, any long term review advice for the Yale sync system? I'm looking to get one soon as we are close to closing on a house and i want to modernise the 20 year old alarm system that i will replace. Would you buy it again given the time you have had it installed so far?

2011

buddyboy wrote: »

Friendly bump, any long term review advice for the Yale sync system? I'm looking to get one soon as we are close to closing on a house and i want to modernise the 20 year old alarm system that i will replace. Would you buy it again given the time you have had it installed so far?

If you want a professional quality DIY smart alarm I would suggest that you would be far better off with the Ajax system (I linked to this earlier in the thread). The fact that professionals avoid all Yale systems yet they use Ajax systems tells its own story.