2019 Leaf

Soarer

Thought I may as well start this thread, seeing as Nissan appear to have played silly buggers with the 2018 version.

Obviously nothing is "official" yet, but there seems to be a bit of info out there that the 2019 Leaf will be a serious bit of kit.



Couple of threads about the same thing.

This one.

And this one.

There might be more, but I haven't stumbled across it yet.

unkel

So it will get the same 64kWh battery pack from LG Chem as the 2018 Hyundai Kona EV?

Presumably with active cooling this time?

Soarer

Looks that way.

Wonder who has a bigger order put in?!

ELM327

Hopefully they include active cooling.
I think they will end up not selling many of the 2018 leaf in the end.

Soarer

ELM327 wrote: »

Hopefully they include active cooling.
I think they will end up not selling many of the 2018 leaf in the end.

Hopefully it'll lead to big discounts of the 2018 Leaf!

thierry14

Soarer wrote: »

Hopefully it'll lead to big discounts of the 2018 Leaf!

For 20k new they wouldn't be a bad buy

19 Leaf is just about the perfect car

200bhp/400km range is something I didn't expect for a long time

Would be great fun to drive

I would buy one

JackieChan

Any chance they ditch Chademo for CCS?

Shefwedfan

JackieChan wrote: »

Any chance they ditch Chademo for CCS?

They should but can't see it happening.....

Really the EU should make them....

ELM327

JackieChan wrote: »

Any chance they ditch Chademo for CCS?

I would rate that as highly unlikely, considering they are not part of the CCS working group (even Tesla are), and they spent money installing chademo FCP

Shefwedfan

What happens when the 2019 model is about to be released? will Nissan start selling off the 2018 model at cheap prices like they done with Leaf 1.5 and Leaf 1 before that?

Nissan will have to adopt CCS as there are unlikely to be many 100 + Kw chargers installed in Europe. The Ionity chargers will be CCS only.

Thermal management will be dictated by LG Chem.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Nissan will have to adopt CCS as there are unlikely to be many 100 + Kw chargers installed in Europe. The Ionity chargers will be CCS only.

Thermal management will be dictated by LG Chem.

There are already 100kW chademo chargers in Norway. The Kia Soul can charge at 100kW already.

Chademo is the standard in Asia and widespread in NA, it's not going to "go away" just because some bureaucrats in the EU want it to.

Nissan will not adapt CCS

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

There are already 100kW chademo chargers in Norway. The Kia Soul can charge at 100kW already.

Chademo is the standard in Asia and widespread in NA, it's not going to "go away" just because some bureaucrats in the EU want it to.

Nissan will not adapt CCS

They should be made to......or everyone else move to chademo

If they want to sell cars in Europe then all manufacturers should be made to pick one type of charger connections and as consumers, we should demand it.

If it is CCS or Chademo I don't care.

What is the point in having loads of chargers but some of them you can't use??????

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They should be made to......or everyone else move to chademo

If they want to sell cars in Europe then all manufacturers should be made to pick one type of charger connections and as consumers, we should demand it.

If it is CCS or Chademo I don't care.

What is the point in having loads of chargers but some of them you can't use??????

Like diesel or LPG if you drive a petrol car?

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

Like diesel or LPG if you drive a petrol car?

I don't understand your point?

KCross

They should just enforce that every charge point is dual head and then let the market decide which standard prevails.

If you get 50kW from Chademo and 150kW from CCS the market will decide the future pretty quick.

Mandating one over the other is an issue as there are licensing issues at present with both sides screwing each other for licensing fees. So, let them both exist and the market will decide which one is better.

Gumbo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They should be made to......or everyone else move to chademo

If they want to sell cars in Europe then all manufacturers should be made to pick one type of charger connections and as consumers, we should demand it.

If it is CCS or Chademo I don't care.

What is the point in having loads of chargers but some of them you can't use??????

Same for mobile phones. They tried to enforce this years ago and we still have a mix of USB, micro usb, mini usb and lightening and then all the associated adaptors to make each one work.

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

Mandating one over the other is an issue as there are licensing issues at present with both sides screwing each other for licensing fees.

What licensing fees are there for CCS? It's all based on IEC standards, isn't it?

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

What licensing fees are there for CCS? It's all based on IEC standards, isn't it?

I stand to be corrected on CCS.... Chademo charge for the use of the connector... I assumed CCS would not offer theirs for free?

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't understand your point?

What's the point of having multiple refuelling pumps you can't use?
Really?

Are you serious?

ELM327

kceire wrote: »

Same for mobile phones. They tried to enforce this years ago and we still have a mix of USB, micro usb, mini usb and lightening and then all the associated adaptors to make each one work.

That's the problem
You can buy a "Phone charger" plug which will have USB at the top, then you connect the propriertary cable.
CCS prohibits the use of an adapter


My kingdom for the man who designs a 150kW CCS to Chademo adapter

Soarer

Thought I'd resurrect this thread for the following link that seems to have been overlooked.

Nissan Leaf prototype with new 60 kWh battery pack leaked fast-charging at 102 kW

Should make things a bit more interesting, as long as the price is right.

But if Hyundai and Kia are coming out with compact SUVs for less than €40k, surely Nissan will have to do better?

Shefwedfan

Soarer wrote: »

Thought I'd resurrect this thread for the following link that seems to have been overlooked.

Nissan Leaf prototype with new 60 kWh battery pack leaked fast-charging at 102 kW

Should make things a bit more interesting, as long as the price is right.

But if Hyundai and Kia are coming out with compact SUVs for less than €40k, surely Nissan will have to do better?

When will it arrive into a dealer to purchase is more important question. It looks to have gone the way of the 2018 Ioniq which was promised.......

I don't expect to see in any great numbers till 2020 2H/2021 at this rate

The current Leaf is selling great so why pull it from market at it's peak

Padraig Mor

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When will it arrive into a dealer to purchase is more important question. It looks to have gone the way of the 2018 Ioniq which was promised.......

I don't expect to see in any great numbers till 2020 2H/2021 at this rate

The current Leaf is selling great so why pull it from market at it's peak

Possible problem for Nissan is that they may then be competing against the Tesla Model 3.

Soarer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When will it arrive into a dealer to purchase is more important question. It looks to have gone the way of the 2018 Ioniq which was promised.......

I don't expect to see in any great numbers till 2020 2H/2021 at this rate

The current Leaf is selling great so why pull it from market at it's peak

I don't think they'll pull the L40. There'll be 2 cars for 2 markets.

ELM327

Soarer wrote: »

I don't think they'll pull the L40. There'll be 2 cars for 2 markets.

They will probably offer the 40 and have the 60 as the premium/upgrade model. Like the 24 and 30.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Possible problem for Nissan is that they may then be competing against the Tesla Model 3.

+1
This is why they need to get the 60 out before 2020-21 as the model 3 will be here at that stage. The L40 won't be competing with it, but, depending on the price point of the L60, it might

Shefwedfan

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Possible problem for Nissan is that they may then be competing against the Tesla Model 3.

If you are buying a 3/5 series do you test drive a Pulsar?

Apart from both been electric I don't see how a Leaf would compete with a Tesla 3?

You would hope the Nissan Leaf is a lot cheaper than a Tesla....

Round Cable

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Apart from both been electric I don't see how a Leaf would compete with a Tesla 3?

You would hope the Nissan Leaf is a lot cheaper than a Tesla....

Why would it be? The 2019 60kWh Leaf will have the same performance and better range than the base model 3, higher seating position, a hatchback, and likely better build quality too.

Tesla are trying to bring the cost of cars down by being efficient in manufacturing. Nissan however have been volume manufacturing cars for ages but it will anybody's guess if Tesla can bring the price down to compete in volume market.

There is nothing inherently expensive on Model 3. Suspension is slightly more complex but Ford etc. have been able to offer multillink suspension on Focus since '98. Model 3 has been desingned from ground up to be cost effective to make. For example the charger and many other EV components have been integrated with the battery pack.

Tesla charges much more for extras at the moment which is their way of raising the average sale price to way above LEAF but the basic car is really good value at only 5k over the price of basic LEAF. Just that you can't purchase one until who knows when. I wouldn't be surprised if fully kitted L60 and Model 3 had exactly the same price.

Shefwedfan

samih wrote: »

Tesla are trying to bring the cost of cars down by being efficient in manufacturing. Nissan however have been volume manufacturing cars for ages but it will anybody's guess if Tesla can bring the price down to compete in volume market.

There is nothing inherently expensive on Model 3. Suspension is slightly more complex but Ford etc. have been able to offer multillink suspension on Focus since '98. Model 3 has been desingned from ground up to be cost effective to make. For example the charger and many other EV components have been integrated with the battery pack.

Tesla charges much more for extras at the moment which is their way of raising the average sale price to way above LEAF but the basic car is really good value at only 5k over the price of basic LEAF. Just that you can't purchase one until who knows when. I wouldn't be surprised if fully kitted L60 and Model 3 had exactly the same price.

If that is true then Nissan Leaf will be end of life very very quickly.....

Why would anyone(under 60) purchase a Leaf when a Model 3 is the same price?

liamog

A basic Model 3 is $5,000 over the full spec Leaf40.
Based on battery price projections, the 60kWh of battery in 2019 should only add around $1,300 to the base price compared to the 2018 40kWh.

When the Leaf60 comes out I'd expect it to replace the Leaf40 with a minimum increase in price.

Plus the Leaf can fit a dog in the boot without it being animal cruelty

Model 3 is not a hatch for a start so I wouldn't buy one. Why would you buy a Hyundai Kona 64 when you can buy a Model 3 for the same money?

It's a same thing than any cars. You can buy a C Class Merc and Ford Focus for the same money and both will sell. One will be fully kitted and other one will be the base model with windy windows.

Edit: Liamog beat me by 1 minute.

Round Cable

Nissan have also axed the bottom spec XE model in the UK and Ireland, likely due to low demand. Tesla saw the same trend with its 60kWh Model S, which was quickly dropped.

Padraig Mor

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you are buying a 3/5 series do you test drive a Pulsar?

I very much considered buying a 5 series rather than a Leaf 40 last week.

Shefwedfan

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I very much considered buying a 5 series rather than a Leaf 40 last week.

Not new....the 5 series will cost you a few more quid.....

I reckon the 2019 60 Kwh Leaf will be delivered in 2020 , perhaps a few delivered to dealers late 2019 ?

FriendsEV

Round Cable wrote: »

Why would it be? The 2019 60kWh Leaf will have the same performance and better range than the base model 3, higher seating position, a hatchback, and likely better build quality too.

It won't have the same performance

Even a base model 3 will leave the Leaf for dust

RobAMerc

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I very much considered buying a 5 series rather than a Leaf 40 last week.

I am going the other way !
I have a 2013 5 series and am considering buying a new 40kw Leaf.

I might wait for a 64kw, but I would need to be guarenteed it would be delivered in very early 2019.

Leaf 60 will 11-22 Kw AC charger, it's been shown to charge at 102 Kw and it will have 215 HP, this is a game changer and I guarantee, if the price is right they will sell very many of these cars and will have no problem meeting demand like Hyundai ( my opinion ) .

Nissan made a very good business decision to sell their battery business to LG Chem, Nissan should concentrate on building cars, drive trains etc and buy the batteries from the experts. I'm expecting this sale gave Nissan an advantage over Hyundai and maybe other manufacturers who might struggle to meet demand.

So the charging of 102 Kw has a clear advantage over the Kona and also the AC charging if 22 Kw would be a major advantage especially to people here in Ireland , Nissan and Renault failed in their Promise to the ESB to offer faster charging AC cars which is why the ESB installed so many 22 Kw AC points so hopefully the ESB will not give up on AC because while Unkle for instance completely dismisses the value of AC I on the other hand know all to well the value of AC not having DC point on my door step like him. DC charger in use , I can still get 22 Kwh in 2 hrs on 3 phase AC point.

I got to tell you that in order for me to give up the joy of driving the i3 the Leaf 60 ( sounds) very, very tempting. The Model 3 will no doubt offer more driver enjoyment, being RWD will give it a good advantage for grip, I hope Nissan offer a RWD option because the current Leaf is a joke not helped by the tyres and 215 HP will make it worse again.

The Leaf will also be larger than the Kona.

The Model 3 will end up costing a lot more than the Leaf or Kona after some options are applied but I would take more power than gadgets.

The i3 is a very fun car to drive and I would be looking for the same or more level of fun , more power etc. What the i3 and Leaf 60 will handle like is anyone's guess.

I doubt the Model 3 will be available in 2020 anyway and my lease is up in November 2020 so it will be interesting to see what's available.

i3 will be gone or close to being cancelled
i3 becomes ix1 with 350 hp and possibly more but probably 50+k basic. Possibly 2020-2021.
Kona, maybe
Leaf 60 Maybe
Model 3 , Unlikely.
I could perhaps go for another i3 but get the S version.

I would like not to need the Rex but this depends on the network , for now, for me Rex is absolutely essential, the last 5 times I went to fast charge the chargers were busy and there is only the first Ionity chargers likely to come online by the end of this year.

If the ESB roll out new 45 Kw chargers I'll freak out , this will prove they're taking the p1ss !

Round Cable

FriendsEV wrote: »

It won't have the same performance

Even a base model 3 will leave the Leaf for dust

It won't really for the average driver, the 60kWh Leaf 0-100kph will be 6.5 seconds, base Model 3 0-97kph is at 5.6 seconds.

DrPhilG

[Deleted User] wrote: »

it's been shown to charge at 102 Kw

Has it?

highdef

DrPhilG wrote: »

Has it?

Yes.

DrPhilG

highdef wrote: »

Yes.

Link?

And by link I mean confirmation from Nissan that the car shown charging at 102kw was the new 60kwh Leaf?

unkel

It will never charge in Ireland at more than 45kW unless someone is willing to install new generation CHAdeMO chargers (a system that is already obsolete). Who would be interested in doing that? I doubt Nissan (or the dealers) will.

RobAMerc wrote: »

am considering buying a new 40kw Leaf.
I might wait for a 64kw, but I would need to be guarenteed it would be delivered in very early 2019.

That is not going to happen.

catharsis

Round Cable wrote: »

Why would it be? The 2019 60kWh Leaf will have the same performance and better range than the base model 3, higher seating position, a hatchback, and likely better build quality too.

This... the Model 3 is not a luxury car, and really the only distinction will be RWD. it will be substantially more expensive - particularly by the time you add all of the features which are standard on the leaf, and a Kona, Leaf64KWh and possibly other options will be as good or a better buy if available in Europe by mid 2020

On the other hand, an EQC, e-Tron or iPace will be massively superior to the tesla in every way at the top end and Tesla's brief existence as a luxury brand will evaporate in the presence of actual luxury high-quality cars.

I expect major manufacturers to have exactly the same issues Tesla did with ramping up massive production of cheap cars - but equally I expect that they (like Jaguar) will be able to dominate Tesla at the high end where there are no volume issues and their ability to build high quality cars will be a differentiator.

I wonder how many etrons hae been ordered in Norway? - how Many iPaces? - compared to current order books for Tesla - anyone have these figures?

I know that across Europe IPace has already outsold Model X this year

Padraig Mor

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not new....the 5 series will cost you a few more quid.....

Yeah, a good few more! Was looking at a 2015 5er.

RobAMerc wrote: »

I am going the other way !
I have a 2013 5 series and am considering buying a new 40kw Leaf.
.

You're like me three years ago - I came from a 250bhp 3 litre petrol rear wheel drive Lexus to my Leaf 24. I don't feel short changed (although I do wish the Nissan sound system was even 50% as good!).

unkel

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yeah, a good few more! Was looking at a 2015 5er.


You're like me three years ago - I came from a 250bhp 3 litre petrol rear wheel drive Lexus to my Leaf 24.

And myself. Scrapped my 3l petrol RWD Jaguar for Ioniq

FriendsEV

catharsis wrote: »

On the other hand, an EQC, e-Tron or iPace will be massively superior to the tesla in every way at the top end and Tesla's brief existence as a luxury brand will evaporate in the presence of actual luxury high-quality cars.

I expect major manufacturers to have exactly the same issues Tesla did with ramping up massive production of cheap cars - but equally I expect that they (like Jaguar) will be able to dominate Tesla at the high end where there are no volume issues and their ability to build high quality cars will be a differentiator.

I wonder how many etrons hae been ordered in Norway? - how Many iPaces? - compared to current order books for Tesla - anyone have these figures?

I know that across Europe IPace has already outsold Model X this year

You make some good points to be fair

As much as I like Tesla

The Model S and X is no where near the quality of a high end Mercedes, Jaguar etc

I think Elon knows this and the model 3 will be the bréad and butter for the foreseeable

Tesla won't be able to complete with luxury brands

Once battery production from battery giants is up and running, Tesla will be screwed

Thats the only ace they have

They have already been surpassed with regard autopilot tech

FriendsEV

FriendsEV wrote: »

They have already been surpassed with regard autopilot tech

Have they ?

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Have they ?

IN the head of a mass raving looney perhaps.

FriendsEV

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have they ?

Waymo looks alot better