Post Cheltenham Blues

RivetingRoger

Anyone else ? 😢
Genuinely blue todaym Have a few backed in Limerick but its sad to think it's a year to wait again.
Slight consolation that Aintree and Punchestown might take on more significance now for good ground horses looking to make up for Cheltenham? But genuinely sad now its over. Huge hole to be filled.

kfallon

Don't worry the Cheltenham preview nights are due to start at the end of the month!

tryfix

Hole me arse, the 2,000 Guineas is just over 6 weeks away.

*yee-haw*

I says

tryfix wrote: »

Hole me arse, the 2,000 Guineas is just over 6 weeks away.

*yee-haw*

Expert eye for me in the 2000 guineas ya heard it here first.

madmoose

I says wrote: »

tryfix wrote: »

Hole me arse, the 2,000 Guineas is just over 6 weeks away.

*yee-haw*

Expert eye for me in the 2000 guineas ya heard it here first.

My mate works for stoute and said it’s got no hope!!!

I says

madmoose wrote: »

My mate works for stoute and said it’s got no hope!!!

Teddy must have been at the sherry then

mdwexford

tryfix wrote: »

Hole me arse, the 2,000 Guineas is just over 6 weeks away.

*yee-haw*

The running in a straight line for a mile really gets the pulse racing.

Car99

mdwexford wrote: »

The running in a straight line for a mile really gets the pulse racing.

What's you best time?

longshotvalue

Just noticed that the Lincoln is on Saturday ,feck sake have they no shame. Still Aintree and Punchestown to come.

RivetingRoger

I have no time for flat
Never got a gra for it atall
Am looking forward to Aintree, Fairyhouse, Punchestown and Galway
Could'nt care less about the flat

ziggy

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RivetingRoger

Galway is a bit of craic thats all. Good week for craic.
Then again the last few years thats all punchestown has been too

Feck it, i will give the flat a go this year. Why not. Never liked it as I dont see the character in flat racing that I see in NH

Ryan Moore would bore paint.
If Adam Kirby or William Buick walked in here now I wouldn't know them
Gosden and Aidan seem decent lads but wouldn't have the bitta divil like Elliott etc

Also, The mess over Chapman being taken off air on ITV following protests from prim and proper tall hat wearing stuffy old toffs for being a bit boisterous with "Johnny G" was just typical of my image of that sport

Last year I remember Josephine Gordon was on ATR with Mick Fitz for some programme and they were discussing the Melbourne Cup and they asked them re comparisons to Cheltenham as an event and all she could offer was "I never watch Cheltenham" like some toffee nose badge of honour.

ZERO CRAIC

mdwexford

Car99 wrote: »

What's you best time?

Faster than yours.

tryfix

mdwexford wrote: »

The running in a straight line for a mile really gets the pulse racing.

It sure does get the pulse starting to race as the classic horses start to sort themselves out.

Shur 'twould have been great altogether if Nijinsky, Dancing Brave, Frankel and Sea The Stars had been set aside for a big race like the Triumph Hurdle.

Motivator

Have never had any interest in the flat to be honest, no real excitement in it and it’s treacherous enough to punt on. Lots of the 5, 6 and 7f races can have the first half a dozen home separated by a length and a half.

I’ve never bought in to the Derby meeting, Royal Ascot or Glorious Goodwood. I’d take a two day summer jumps meeting in Balinrobe or Kilbeggan over the premier flat meetings every time. The evening meetings at the summer jumps tracks in Ireland and the U.K. are great craic. Warm evenings and bad handicappers are what the summer is all about.

mdwexford

tryfix wrote: »

It sure does get the pulse starting to race as the classic horses start to sort themselves out.

Shur 'twould have been great altogether if Nijinsky, Dancing Brave, Frankel and Sea The Stars had been set aside for a big race like the Triumph Hurdle.

A lot better than the boringness of flat racing.

He's won a race in a straight line, how will he handle going round a bend :eek:

I wonder who will be in what stall!!

Will the excitement never end!!

tryfix

mdwexford wrote: »

A lot better than the boringness of flat racing.

He's won a race in a straight line, how will he handle going round a bend :eek:

I wonder who will be in what stall!!

Will the excitement never end!!

Each to their own....

BumperD

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrMj2qFkwfM

longshotvalue

BumperD wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrMj2qFkwfM

Feck a whole year to wait. What a show it is..

BumperD

aidankkk wrote: »

Feck a whole year to wait. What a show it is..

Fairyhouse, Aintree and Punchestown will have tons of great action so plenty to look forward to

handsfree2

aidankkk wrote: »

Feck a whole year to wait. What a show it is..

This song is always stuck in my head for the month before the festival.

https://youtu.be/ci7bpYPd6Tg

ziggy

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Billgirlylegs

ziggy wrote: »

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You may be correct, but what races would you drop, and why?
Good and worthy additions (in my view of course)
AB Hurdle
Ryanair Chase
JLT Chase

Open to debate
novice handicap chase
Martin Pipe Hurdle
Fred Winter Hurdle

Little / no interest
Cross Country
Mares
Little mares

longshotvalue

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

You may be correct, but what races would you drop, and why?
Good and worthy additions (in my view of course)
AB Hurdle
Ryanair Chase
JLT Chase

Open to debate
novice handicap chase
Martin Pipe Hurdle
Fred Winter Hurdle

Little / no interest
Cross Country
Mares
Little mares

Every race is worthwhile simply because there are all 100% competitive. Personally i don't like the mares novice as a race but there rest are fine. Cross Country is a great race.

RivetingRoger

Less races? I want more!!! I want another feckin day! A mares day maybe, I dunno.....
Or, drop a race a day, from 7 to six, add them to an extra day and add a mares chase, a veterans chase and a veterans hurdle!!



GWAN!!

slimshady007

One I'm surprised they haven't added is a grade 1 hurdle over the intermediate distance of 2m 4f or 2m 5f (hurdle equivalent of the Ryanair). Horses that spring to mind over the years would be Al Eile, Oscar Whiskey and The New One. Not quite enough speed for the Champions Hurdle but not enough stamina for the Stayers Hurdle. They have graded races across 2, 2 1/2 and 3 miles for novice chasers, novice hurdlers and chasers but not hurdlers which seems strange.

handsfree2

slimshady007 wrote: »

One I'm surprised they haven't added is a grade 1 hurdle over the intermediate distance of 2m 4f or 2m 5f (hurdle equivalent of the Ryanair). Horses that spring to mind over the years would be Al Eile, Oscar Whiskey and The New One. Not quite enough speed for the Champions Hurdle but not enough stamina for the Stayers Hurdle. They have graded races across 2, 2 1/2 and 3 miles for novice chasers, novice hurdlers and chasers but not hurdlers which seems strange.

The champion hurdle was weak enough this year without this race. I hope it never appears.

ziggy

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longshotvalue

ziggy wrote: »

I’d drop all the handicaps the cross country & the mares novice races

I can't understand that at all . There all highly comledative races with everyone trying fir their lives, as good as 90% of big Saturday races , all in the space of 4 days .

And I'd never have a winner if it wasn't fir handicaps and cross country .

supremenovice

ziggy wrote: »

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I can't wait to see your reaction WHEN they move to a 5 day festival with the Gold Cup on the Saturday "so the working man can watch the Gold Cup".

mdwexford

ziggy wrote: »

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I agree.

kfallon

Bring back the Cathcart Chase!!!!

longshotvalue

If we carry this to the max there really should only be a Champion Hurdle and Gold Cup as everything else is diluting it.

Making it shorter with no handicaps will make it impossible for anyone other than huge owners to get a winner (or even dream about it).

Owners need to think someday ill be there with a chance of the game will be fecked. Anyone who had a leg in a horse would give anything to win any of those races including amateur races and cross country. (that said at the moment even all those races are being won by the same owners, but at least other owners can have a runner with hope)

Anyone not excited by the prospect of going there for a days racing in march needs to find another sport. 3 4 or 5 days.

BumperD

This harping on about when it was three days , you will never hear the end of it. 4 days is fine. Not sure they could fill a fifth day , 4 is enough, if they want Saturday racing start Wednesday

The Mig

I like it at 4 days. Not old enough to remember it being 3 days (apart from that one year with the crazy wind).

Wednesday to Saturday could be interesting.

If they went that route, could they re-schedule the racecard for the Saturday to have a better quality race along with the Gold cup?

slimshady007

handsfree2 wrote: »

The champion hurdle was weak enough this year without this race. I hope it never appears.

Why do you think the Champion hurdle was so weak? I thought it was a cracking finish with Buveir Dair pulling out all the stops to defeat last year's supreme 2nd.

I guess you'd have to look at whether the Ballymore weakens the Supreme/AB, the JLT weakens the Arkle/RSA and the Ryanair weakens the Champion Chase/Gold Cup. In my opinion they don't so I don't think it would weaken the Champion Hurdle/Stayers but others will think different. The Ryanair wasnt particularly liked when it was introduced but it has produced some top quality winners and has become a respected grade 1.

mdwexford

aidankkk wrote: »

If we carry this to the max there really should only be a Champion Hurdle and Gold Cup as everything else is diluting it.

Making it shorter with no handicaps will make it impossible for anyone other than huge owners to get a winner (or even dream about it).

Owners need to think someday ill be there with a chance of the game will be fecked. Anyone who had a leg in a horse would give anything to win any of those races including amateur races and cross country. (that said at the moment even all those races are being won by the same owners, but at least other owners can have a runner with hope)

Anyone not excited by the prospect of going there for a days racing in march needs to find another sport. 3 4 or 5 days.

I enjoy the cross country as a spectacle and for something different. Every other race added since the 3 day festival I can do without.

Nobody said no handicaps. There was loads of competitive handicaps before.

slimshady007 wrote: »

Why do you think the Champion hurdle was so weak? I thought it was a cracking finish with Buveir Dair pulling out all the stops to defeat last year's supreme 2nd.

I guess you'd have to look at whether the Ballymore weakens the Supreme/AB, the JLT weakens the Arkle/RSA and the Ryanair weakens the Champion Chase/Gold Cup. In my opinion they don't so I don't think it would weaken the Champion Hurdle/Stayers but others will think different. The Ryanair wasnt particularly liked when it was introduced but it has produced some top quality winners and has become a respected grade 1.

The "Ballymore" has been around a lot longer than the slow boat Albert Bartlett.

That, the JLT and the Ryanair obviously weaken the other races. It's not even up for debate.

longshotvalue

mdwexford wrote: »

I enjoy the cross country as a spectacle and for something different. Every other race added since the 3 day festival I can do without.

Nobody said no handicaps. There was loads of competitive handicaps before.



The "Ballymore" has been around a lot longer than the slow boat Albert Bartlett.

That, the JLT and the Ryanair obviously weaken the other races. It's not even up for debate.

You probably right in that they added a couple of poorish races and could have made better decisions, like a 2m5f hurdle and maybe a veterans chase rather than the fred winter / mares novice. martin pipe etc.

Don't agree about the JLT or Ryanair, there is far too much between a 2 mile championship race and a 3m race and the intermediate distance is needed. I can think of only 1 time the ryanair had any effect on the gold cup and that was Vautour. I think the JLT makes more sense for novices than the RSA, and as the Gold Cup is a non standard 2 furlongs over the norm of 3 miles , that race is certainly needed as the number of gold cup horses can be counted on 1 hand any year.

danganabu

ziggy wrote: »

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mdwexford wrote: »

Nobody said no handicaps.

That, the JLT and the Ryanair obviously weaken the other races. It's not even up for debate.

Yes it was suggested to have no handicaps as ludicrous and all as it would be, see above.

Of course it is up for debate and I for one don't agree.

WickIow Brave

Get rid of the Fred Winter, Martin Pipe, Kim Muir, Albert Bartlett, JLT, Make the Ryanair for first and second season Novices only like the Cathcart was, get rid of the Mares Novice Hurdle and replace it with a Mares Chase, go back to the old conditions of the 4 miler.

kiers47

WickIow Brave wrote: »

Get rid of the Fred Winter, Martin Pipe, Kim Muir, Albert Bartlett, JLT, Make the Ryanair for first and second season Novices only like the Cathcart was, get rid of the Mares Novice Hurdle and replace it with a Mares Chase, go back to the old conditions of the 4 miler.

I may be in the minority. But I actually think the Martin Pipe is a great addition and a great chance for the conditionals to have a winner at the festival. Would be sad if they scrapped that.
As for the other races you mention i couldn't disagree with. The Fred Winter is a horrendous race. The Mares Novice is also a scandalous event and has no place at the festival.

Also do you mean make the Ryanair a novice event? A second season novice is a horse who failed to win a race during their first season over that discipline. Making them still a novice.
Or do you mean make it for horses who had their Novice season the previous season and allow them to run in the Ryanair before stepping up the year after? Like Don Cossack done?

danganabu

kiers47 wrote: »

. The Fred Winter is a horrendous race. The Mares Novice is also a scandalous event and has no place at the festival.

I think even people like myself who think more is better and that 4 days is great, can agree with the above two superflous races that add nothing at all. 4 days with 6 races a day would be my preference.

WickIow Brave

kiers47 wrote: »

I may be in the minority. But I actually think the Martin Pipe is a great addition and a great chance for the conditionals to have a winner at the festival. Would be sad if they scrapped that.
As for the other races you mention i couldn't disagree with. The Fred Winter is a horrendous race. The Mares Novice is also a scandalous event and has no place at the festival.

Also do you mean make the Ryanair a novice event? A second season novice is a horse who failed to win a race during their first season over that discipline. Making them still a novice.
Or do you mean make it for horses who had their Novice season the previous season and allow them to run in the Ryanair before stepping up the year after? Like Don Cossack done?

Then I'd just make the Coral Cup or the Pertemps for conditionals. Probably the Pertemps.

Yes, I mean like when Don Cossack ran in it. He wouldn't be eligible the year after then when he ran in the Gold Cup. Un de Sceaux would never have been eligible to run in the Ryanair. Vautour would have been allowed the time he ran but had he stayed alive in 2017 he would have had no choice but to run in the QMCC or the Gold Cup. No winning 4 or 5 Ryanairs.

kiers47

WickIow Brave wrote: »

Then I'd just make the Coral Cup or the Pertemps for conditionals. Probably the Pertemps.

Ya that would be fair i guess.

Id probably scrap the pertemps before the MP tbh. The pertemps is pretty much set up for an absolute plot job.
Granted it has been around a lot longer than the MP.

WickIow Brave

If the Ryanair is kept as is then we will have to accept that eventually it will be on an equal footing with the Champion Chase and the Gold Cup. It won't be seen as a lesser race. Horses like Vautour will be running in it year after year and we saw how Douvan nearly ran in it this year. The top trainers won't have any problem running their best horses in the race.

WickIow Brave

kiers47 wrote: »

Ya that would be fair i guess.

Id probably scrap the pertemps before the MP tbh. The pertemps is pretty much set up for an absolute plot job.
Granted it has been around a lot longer than the MP.

Actually that is spot on. I love the Martin Pipe as a betting heat where it's progressive horses just below the top level taking each other on whereas like you say the Pertemps is just plot jobs galore and you get yokes like Glenloe ridiculously short cos the world and its mother know its been plotted up for it.

ziggy

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kksaints

I'd keep the Fred Winter purely because it generally makes the Triumph a classier race due to the fact that a lot of trainers with mediocre 4yos can enter and run in the Fred Winter rather than clogging up the Triumph and creating a big field cavalry charge as it too often was before 2005 .Personally think the Martin Pipe, Mares Novice Hurdle and the 2m4f novice handicap chase add very little to the festival.

handsfree2

slimshady007 wrote: »

Why do you think the Champion hurdle was so weak? I thought it was a cracking finish with Buveir Dair pulling out all the stops to defeat last year's supreme 2nd

You can get a fairly good handle on the race from the ratings.

Identity thief is rated 149 and was about 12 lengths of the winner which would give the impression that the winner only had to run to a mark of 161 to win.

Mick Jazz is rated 156 and was about 3 lengths of the winner which would give the impression that the winner only had to run to a mark of 160 to win.

Melon was rated 159 after his Bula run and ran to a similar standard in this around 160.

So the winner seems to have only had to run to 161 ish to win.

That compares unfavorably to most of the recent champion hurdles including last year.

mdwexford

aidankkk wrote: »

You probably right in that they added a couple of poorish races and could have made better decisions, like a 2m5f hurdle and maybe a veterans chase rather than the fred winter / mares novice. martin pipe etc.

Don't agree about the JLT or Ryanair, there is far too much between a 2 mile championship race and a 3m race and the intermediate distance is needed. I can think of only 1 time the ryanair had any effect on the gold cup and that was Vautour. I think the JLT makes more sense for novices than the RSA, and as the Gold Cup is a non standard 2 furlongs over the norm of 3 miles , that race is certainly needed as the number of gold cup horses can be counted on 1 hand any year.

Oh they definitely give horses more options and make sense to be there.

It does dilute the more established races though.

danganabu wrote: »

Yes it was suggested to have no handicaps as ludicrous and all as it would be, see above.

Of course it is up for debate and I for one don't agree.

But how can you not agree.

The more options there are the more it takes away from each race.
All the horses than ran in the AB, JLT and Ryanair since their inception would either have stayed at home or ran in the older races making them stronger.

Billgirlylegs

I can remember the addition of The Coral Cup and The Bumper.
I can also remember The Cathcart, and it was a nothing race.
I watched Beau Ranger, and Dublin Flyer running themselves into sweaty balls of nothing, running in the Gold Cup. Florida Pearl and One Man did similar,and they were legless after the second last.

I can absolutely guarantee that it is a good thing that The Ryanair was introduced. Al four would have featured at the finish, as opposed to falling in a heap in the longer race.