The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Bannasidhe

Ismisejack wrote: »

Spoke to a group of fellow young people today(18-22), most hold pro life views, but not all, but those with pro life views all said that same thing, that they felt pressurised by society to keep quiet on their views and that they felt they’d be labeled inaccurate derogatory names such as women haters and dinosaurs ( completely and utterly untrue) if they let their view known, it seems standing up for the unborn is seen as uncool to the elites and biased media up in Dublin

Really. Back in '83 I was verbally abused, called a baby murderer, spat at, slapped and shoved for handing out pro-choice leaflets. I was 17 years old and of slight build. Grown men were shoving me around and screaming in my face. I was chased down Patrick Street in Cork by a baying mob and escaped without serious injury only because my cousin was a bus driver and happened to be passing, he stopped his bus, opened the door so I could get on, and drove off.

A work colleague in London told me that one of the main reasons he had left Ireland was because he was so badly beaten by people he thought were friends - in fact his own uncle was involved - that he spent 3 weeks in hospital - he had been handing out pro-choice leaflets in Clonakilty.

When you have suffered physical violence from people who say they are pro-life sympathy for those who fear being seen as 'uncool' is in short supply.

AudreyHepburn

Oldtree wrote: »

He does say he is "middle ground".

I think he wants to ensure that every woman is fully informed 'before' making her final decision (she may not be fully informed before going into the doctor) and that is a middle ground issue, being addressed to the middle ground.

That’s how I interpreted his words too and I am in full agreement.

There has to be some sort of legislation in place so that we don’t end up in a situation where you can simply walk in off the street, demand an abortion and be given one.

It’s too complex an issue to allow that.

david75

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

That’s how I interpreted his words too and I am in full agreement.

There has to be some sort of legislation in place so that we don’t end up in a situation where you can simply walk in off the street, demand an abortion and be given one.

It’s too complex an issue to allow that.

I don’t think you’re being very fair to women or girls with that last comment. At all. Or showing much awareness of the entire issue as it affects women to be honest.

I know certain elements are trying to paint it like ‘most young ones are sluts just out riding and will be using this as a revolving door thing. And serves them right! Save the eighth!’


You disrespect all women by putting them in that bracket with that kind of comment.

January

Nobody walks in off the street and demands an abortion. Nobody.

AudreyHepburn

david75 wrote: »

I don’t think you’re being very fair to women or girls with that last comment. At all. Or showing much awareness of the entire issue as it affects women to be honest.

I know certain elements are trying to paint it like ‘most young ones are sluts just out riding and will be using this as a revolving door thing. And serves them right! Save the eighth!’


You disrespect all women by putting them in that bracket with that kind of comment.

First of all I am a woman and as such I understand perfectly how this issue affects us.

Second I never called anyone a slut or sought to degrade or disrespect anyone.

I just feel it’s important that there are proper processes and guidelines in place to deal with this issue.

Martina1991

Kyta wrote:

My question I guess is, (again whether you are pro-life or pro-choice) are you posting here in an attempt to sway the opinion of potentially undecided voters who are reading the thread?

I started off as just a reader of this thread but feel compelled at times to post when I see blatant lies and ignorance portrayed as fact.

Oldtree

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

That’s how I interpreted his words too and I am in full agreement.

There has to be some sort of legislation in place so that we don’t end up in a situation where you can simply walk in off the street, demand an abortion and be given one.

It’s too complex an issue to allow that.

Do you really think any women would do that? On a whim?

Ave Sodalis

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

First of all I am a woman and as such I understand perfectly how this issue affects us.

Second I never called anyone a slut or sought to degrade or disrespect anyone.

I just feel it’s important that there are proper processes and guidelines in place to deal with this issue.

Is there any medical procedure you can walk in off the street and demand to be given?

Take something along similar lines: getting your tubes tied or getting the snip. Despite it being a decision that affects absolutely nobody else except a woman/man and maybe their partner, most doctors will refuse to do it unless under exceptional circumstances. The procedure is legal, and is still exceptionally difficult to get. With that in mind, do you really think it's going to be a case of strolling in during lunch time, and back again to finish off your day?

AudreyHepburn

Oldtree wrote: »

Do you really think any women would do that? On a whim?

To be fair no I don’t - I was being facetious I suppose. I’d imagine it’ll be like any other doctors appointment that you make.

I just hope that like a normal gp appointment you would be sat down and talked to, given all the options available and any other supports you require and that like any other medical treatment you are given time to come to a decision.

I just fear many on the pro choice side want abortion on demand with no questions asked and I couldn’t in good conscience agree to that.

January

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

To be fair no I don’t - I was being facetious I suppose. I’d imagine it’ll be like any other doctors appointment that you make.

I just hope that like a normal gp appointment you would be sat down and talked to, given all the options available and any other supports you require and that like any other medical treatment you are given time to come to a decision.

I just fear many on the pro choice side want abortion on demand with no questions asked and I couldn’t in good conscience agree to that.

No, we want abortion on request and the only questions asked should be 'are you sure' and 'when was your last period so we can calculate your gestation'. If there's a query over the gestation then further investigation should be required but why should they have to disclose a reason before 12 weeks?

Oldtree

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

To be fair no I don’t - I was being facetious I suppose. I’d imagine it’ll be like any other doctors appointment that you make.

I just hope that like a normal gp appointment you would be sat down and talked to, given all the options available and any other supports you require and that like any other medical treatment you are given time to come to a decision.

I just fear many on the pro choice side want abortion on demand with no questions asked and I couldn’t in good conscience agree to that.

The way you were articulating the point, made me think you were an anti-choicer scaremongering from a slightly different angle. and the same again highlighted in bold above.

No sane person has any time for the "abortion on demand" theory touted by the anti-choice brigade, so the fear of it is not a reality.

Achasanai

Kyta wrote: »

My question I guess is, (again whether you are pro-life or pro-choice) are you posting here in an attempt to sway the opinion of potentially undecided voters who are reading the thread? And do you think the % of undecideds who you could potentially convince to vote your way is large enough to affect the outcome of this referendum?

I think there definitely are undecideds reading the thread - probably not registered or if they are, they're just reading and not commenting, so it makes sense to have the arguments out here.

I find some of the more knowledgeable posters make some very good points, and reference cases that I was unaware of. These definitely help in the real world, where I'm talking to those who are (or were) undecided, and it makes a real difference. I know I've changed the mind of at least some, and I can see other people changing their opinions slowly. Having the conversation in real life is key, but having it here is a start.

david75

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

First of all I am a woman and as such I understand perfectly how this issue affects us.

Second I never called anyone a slut or sought to degrade or disrespect anyone.

I just feel it’s important that there are proper processes and guidelines in place to deal with this issue.

Within any luck, and in all probability, this will be the most scrutinised well thought out and watertight legislation we ever pass. We’ve probably never dealt with anything nearly as important that affects and concerns our society and affects every single woman and girl (well; of child bearing age and soon to be) as well as it affecting social strata and class.

It’s time for this to happen. They won’t screw it up. (If we can just get Coveney to put his feet down on the floor rather than his mouth)

AudreyHepburn

Oldtree wrote: »

The way you were articulating the point, made me think you were an anti-choicer scaremongering from a slightly different angle. and the same again highlighted in bold above.

No sane person has any time for the "abortion on demand" theory touted by the anti-choice brigade, so the fear of it is not a reality.

I’ve said countless times that I am pro choice. I will vote to repeal one way or the other.

The poster above you, a pro choicer, clearly states ‘we want abortion on request ’ - clearly some apparently sane folks to want that.

As I say I will vote to repeal regardless but let’s not pretend everyone on the choice is being reasonable.

January

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’ve said countless times that I am pro choice. I will vote to repeal one way or the other.

The poster above you, a pro choicer, clearly states ‘we want abortion on request ’ - clearly some apparently sane folks to want that.

As I say I will vote to repeal regardless but let’s not pretend everyone on the choice is being reasonable.

I don't see why abortion on request up to 12 weeks is a bad thing. In fact I see the 12 week cut off point as too restrictive given how small a window it is to make a decision and how we cannot detect major, non fatal, disabilities before the 20 week anatomy scan.

Soulsun

Are we on course for a 25th May vote?

david75

*seem to be replying to a post that has disappeared but anyways.

We’re seeing our government attempting to Overturn a referendum result from 1983 owing to public demand so who can say. I can’t see Ireland going full tilt conservative in the future and overturning this result of it passes.

But who knows.

January

Soulsun wrote: »

Are we on course for a 25th May vote?

Yeah, we are still on course for that date barring any major set backs.

erica74

January wrote: »

I don't see why abortion on request up to 12 weeks is a bad thing. In fact I see the 12 week cut off point as too restrictive given how small a window it is to make a decision and how we cannot detect major, non fatal, disabilities before the 20 week anatomy scan.

Abortion on request is literally a precise description of what initiation of the process should be. "Hallo Dr Xxxx, I would like to request an abortion."

Zubeneschamali

January wrote: »

I even change one voters mind I'm a happy bunny.

This. I get exactly one vote, and it was always going to be yes. So that's +1 for repeal.

But if I talk one No voter into voting Yes, thats -1 No, +1 yes, net gain 2.

So talking one single solitary No voter into voting Yes has twice as much effect as my own vote.

Of course the No voters with fixed ideas are not going to change, but there are lots of readers who are not so set in their ideas. Watching No 'spokespeople' post nonsense, lies, insults, deranged rants and then get thread banned over and over has to make people who agree with them go "Hmmmm".

NuMarvel

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

There has to be some sort of legislation in place so that we don’t end up in a situation where you can simply walk in off the street, demand an abortion and be given one.

It’s too complex an issue to allow that.

There was always going to be post-referendum legislation. Always. And that legislation was always going to go no further than what the Assembly recommended. Indeed, what's being proposed has stepped back somewhat from the Assembly's recommendations.

I can't see how anyone could seriously contemplate that Ireland would go from having one of the most restrictive abortion regimes to one of the least in one fell swoop. There was always going to be legislation, and it was never going to be anything radical or groundbreaking.

Annasopra

markodaly wrote: »

Au Contraire mon ami.

If the 8th is repealed there will be no legal protection for the unborn, so an abortion could take place an hour before birth that would be fully legal. Unless you can show me where it would not be so?

If the legislation you linked was sufficient, then why is there still a discussion on cabinet level to the 'what happens after'.

Also, the supreme court ruling was pretty strong on this, that the unborn would have no constitutional rights once the 8th was repealed.

Please. You are embarrassing yourself at this stage. You are making up things that are untrue and EXTREME scaremongering.

If the 8th amendment gets repealed nothing effectively changes there and then in terms of where we legally stand.

Abortion is still prohibited under the Offences Against The Person Act 1861
Limited abortion is allowed for under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013.

an abortion could take place an hour before birth that would be fully legal

This is a lie. It simply could not legally happen. The 1861 Act is still in place. Stop making things up. Just stop.

david75

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Please. You are embarrassing yourself at this stage. You are making up things that are untrue and EXTREME scaremongering.

If the 8th amendment gets repealed nothing effectively changes there and then in terms of where we legally stand.

Abortion is still prohibited under the Offences Against The Person Act 1861
Limited abortion is allowed for under the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013.



This is a lie. It simply could not legally happen. The 1861 Act is still in place. Stop making things up. Just stop.

The ‘au contraire mon ami’ really sets it off.

freshpopcorn

Another Waterford Whispers!
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/03/27/man-6-months-into-posting-pro-choice-statuses-still-cant-find-girlfriend/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article

Oldtree

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’ve said countless times that I am pro choice. I will vote to repeal one way or the other.

The poster above you, a pro choicer, clearly states ‘we want abortion on request ’ - clearly some apparently sane folks to want that.

As I say I will vote to repeal regardless but let’s not pretend everyone on the choice is being reasonable.

You are being disingenuous to 'January' the poster above me.

I will not vote regardless....
I will vote to get rid of an obsolete piece of our constitution that is still being implemented.
I will vote for the proposed 12 weeks, as it is a start but we will have to see how this goes and as January says it may well prove to be too limiting.
I am also comfortable with the viability clause.

the_syco

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

To be fair no I don’t - I was being facetious I suppose. I’d imagine it’ll be like any other doctors appointment that you make.

You were scaremongering.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’ve said countless times that I am pro choice.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I just fear many on the pro choice side want abortion on demand with no questions asked and I couldn’t in good conscience agree to that.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The poster above you, a pro choicer, clearly states ‘we want abortion on request ’ - clearly some apparently sane folks to want that.

I like how you mince your words when caught out bullsh|tting...

the_syco

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Another Waterford Whispers!
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/03/27/man-6-months-into-posting-pro-choice-statuses-still-cant-find-girlfriend/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article

It sounds like the "man believes in feminism to get the ride" meme, tbh.

freshpopcorn

the_syco wrote: »

It sounds like the "man believes in feminism to get the ride" meme, tbh.

When I read it it reminded me of a guy trying to get off with Louise O'Neill.

AudreyHepburn

the_syco wrote: »

You were scaremongering.




I like how you mince your words when caught out bullsh|tting...

Where was I scaremongering? I just stated that I have a problem with the idea of abortion on demand without proper legislation.

Request or demand it doesn’t matter what word is used - I just don’t want abortion to become another form of contraception is all. There has to be safe guards.

I’m going to stress again that I am PRO CHOICE. I will vote to REPEAL regardless.

I get the impression people think I’m closet pro life which isn’t true.

swampgas

bertieinexile wrote: »

I'm trying to put people off voting yes, but I'm just one man and there's only so much I can do. Thank God for Colm O'Gorman.

Genuine question: why?

Telling any woman that the embryo or foetus in her uterus matters more than she does is abhorrent to me. What makes you so arrogant that you think you can decide for women what they should do when faced with a crisis pregnancy?

Because self-satisfied arrogance is what I'm getting from your posts.