The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

gctest50

horseburger wrote: »

...........

It is clear that Ivana Bacik endorses the stance of Dr Patricia Lohr Medical Director of BPAS, because

Ivana Bacik posted, on youtube, the video of the address to the Oireachtas Committee, by Patricia Lohr.

more space-filling paid-by-the-wordcount looking cr@p logic

If i post, on youtube, a kitten video - it doesn't mean i'm a crazy-cat-lady


on youtube, on youtube,on youtube,

trying to make her look really bad by going to the massive expense of posting on youtube

Samuel T. Cogley

Any links to your kitten videos?

gctest50

no multimedia - there is this though. :


http://www.mommyish.com/10-reasons-to-have-an-abortion/

RobertKK

kneemos wrote: »

Mary Loo,s election poster s.https://www.newstalk.com/Sinn-Fin-launches-campaign-calling-for-Yes-vote-in-Eighth-Amendment-referendum

Tiocfaidh ar ta?

horseburger

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As an aside, If I ever had the misfortune to correct a dissertation you had written I would be employing the ol green pen a great deal to draw lines through your endless quotes and video links and asking you to tell me in your own words what exactly your opinion as I can read/see for myself what *insert name here* says/thinks should I wish to know their opinion/position.

You'd be lucky to get a pass tbh.

Thanks again for being so courteous.

What do you think of the points made by Ben Shapiro, in this video, in response to the arguments made for making abortion available?

I think it's interesting because he discusses the use of euphemisms in the arguments, that are made, in advocating for a wider availability of abortion.

He also discusses the issue of at what stage of pregnancy it is acceptable to perform abortions.

He challenges the idea that it is not human before birth. Bríd Smith of People Before Profit suggested on the episode of Tonight With Vincent Browne on TV3 on 6th July 2017, that the baby is a "potential human being as long as it is growing inside the mother", until "when it's born".

Note that Bríd Smith referred to a pregnant woman as a "mother", which is a phrase some posters in this thread, objected to me using, a few days ago.

Does that mean that you, and other very courteous posters, in this thread, agree with Bríd Smith on the "potential human being" until "when it's born" phrases, but disagree with her using the term "mother", when referencing a pregnant woman?

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

It was bad hospital care, .....

If Savita Halapaanavar had received a termination when she asked for it she would have survived, left the hospital and perhaps gone on to have children. If the treatment was delayed a little longer, she would have survived, left the hospital but perhaps suffered from subfertility

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes, but it had been known for years before that in healthcare, that travelling to India lead to a specific heightened e coli threat - one that she had acquired.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2715591/

Starting to sound very like your argument that the Miss P case was a stunt by her doctors.

Zubeneschamali

thee glitz wrote: »

why resort to arguments based on 'well the Bishop says' when there's no evidence of it being an influential factor and makes you look a clown?

It's true that there are many non-Catholic prolifers in America who are not concerned that the 8th is a codification of narrow Roman Catholic dogma, hence this discussion probably has more non-Catholic Savethe8thers than we do here in Ireland.

Annasopra

kneemos wrote: »

No idea how it could possibly be construed as political.

In order to get here politicians had to be convinced. Parties are taking quite different stances on the issue.

Zubeneschamali

horseburger wrote: »

I think the exchange between Patricia Lohr and Peter Fitzpatrick discussing grounds for approval of abortion, is very relevant to this issue, of not knowing what will be covered under new legislation.

Good for you, feel free to vote No on that basis.

Except you don't have a vote here, do you?

Zubeneschamali

kneemos wrote: »

Mary Loo,s election poster s.https://www.newstalk.com/Sinn-Fin-launches-campaign-calling-for-Yes-vote-in-Eighth-Amendment-referendum

You could argue that she is using the occasion to raise her profile, which is scummy, but I would say that Sinn Féin has a long tradition of top-down Do What The Council Tells You, so this may be the most effective way to mobilise a Yes vote in their supporters.

Zubeneschamali

horseburger wrote: »

What do you think of the points made by Ben Shapiro, in this video

Is he one of the Banagher Shapiros?

Annasopra

Ben Shapiro, far right extremist? Forgive me if I dont listen to what he has to say given his extreme views race, islam, lgbt issues and his links with extreme Far right media like Breitbart.

Nah. I wont be listening to far right fascists like Shapiro or Justin Barrett on this.

Zubeneschamali

I had the first canvassers of the campaign yesterday evening - gave me a Together for Yes flyer.

I gave them a thumbs up and said I voted against it last time and will again, and got smiles and thanks.

After they were gone I thought to ask how it was going, but too late. This would not be a very pro-choice constituency, I hope they get on OK.

pjohnson

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I had the first canvassers of the campaign yesterday evening - gave me a Together for Yes flyer.

I gave them a thumbs up and said I voted against it last time and will again, and got smiles and thanks.

After they were gone I thought to ask how it was going, but too late. This would not be a very pro-choice constituency, I hope they get on OK.

Odd exchange.

Zubeneschamali

pjohnson wrote: »

Odd exchange.

I'm an odd guy.

kneemos

A combination of conservative older voters who vote on everything and more motivated no voters means we'll be back here again in another ten or fifteen years I reackon.

gctest50

"Medieval biographies of multiple Irish Catholic saints, including beloved Brigid of Kildare, reverently record abortions among their miracles,"


https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/saints-once-did-abortions-it-was-a-lesser-sin-than-oral-sex-1.3466881

dudara

The latest Irish Times poll is out. There’s been a slip in support for both sides, but Repeal is still ahead. It’s going to be close

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-times-poll-public-favour-repeal-of-eighth-despite-slip-in-support-1.3467503?mode=amp

kneemos

dudara wrote: »

The latest Irish Times poll is out. There’s been a slip in support for both sides, but Repeal is still ahead. It’s going to be close

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-times-poll-public-favour-repeal-of-eighth-despite-slip-in-support-1.3467503?mode=amp

A lot of yes voters are of the opinion that abortion isn't right but should be available.
Quite a few of them will leave it up to someone else to vote.

RobertKK

Think the shift is going towards no given the undecided went up with a 9% fall in yes and a 1% fall in no.
The trend will tell a lot in coming weeks.

Zubeneschamali

dudara wrote: »

The latest Irish Times poll is out.

63:37 stripping out the Don't Knows.

47:28:20:5 Yes:No:Don't Know:Won't Vote

Interestingly the drop in Yes (from 56 in January) has not meant a rise in No which also dropped by a point, so a lot of those Don't Knows may be leaning Yes.

No will need every single Don't know to break their way to win. I still reckon Yes will win 55:45.

RobertKK

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

63:37 stripping out the Don't Knows.

47:28:20:5 Yes:No:Don't Know:Won't Vote

Interestingly the drop in Yes (from 56 in January) has not meant a rise in No which also dropped by a point, so a lot of those Don't Knows may be leaning Yes.

No will need every single Don't know to break their way to win. I still reckon Yes will win 55:45.

History shows that don’t no’s mostly go for the status quo if they don’t know rather than vote for change.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

History shows that don’t no’s mostly go for the status quo if they don’t know rather than vote for change.

Have you any source for that ?


If you don't know, you should be more like the Saints

Saints once did abortions

"Medieval biographies of multiple Irish Catholic saints, including beloved Brigid of Kildare, reverently record abortions among their miracles,"



https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/saints-once-did-abortions-it-was-a-lesser-sin-than-oral-sex-1.3466881

Zubeneschamali

RobertKK wrote: »

History shows that don’t no’s mostly go for the status quo if they don’t know rather than vote for change.

That's why I think it will be 55:45 and not the headline 63:37.

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

Have you any source for that ?

It is from observing referendums for long time at this stage.
Googled and found this from RedC research:

https://redcresearch.ie/brexit-polls-lessons-ireland/

It says almost all undecided in the marriage referendum ended up voting no.

baylah17

Great news from the Poll
Looks like the lies and graphic distortions of the No side have come back to haunt them!
The Yes campaign had barely hit first gear when the poll was taken!

January

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I had the first canvassers of the campaign yesterday evening - gave me a Together for Yes flyer.

I gave them a thumbs up and said I voted against it last time and will again, and got smiles and thanks.

After they were gone I thought to ask how it was going, but too late. This would not be a very pro-choice constituency, I hope they get on OK.

What area? You can pm if you like and I can try find out what the results were for you

RobertKK

baylah17 wrote: »

Great news from the Poll
Looks like the lies and graphic distortions of the No side have come back to haunt them!
The Yes campaign had barely hit first gear when the poll was taken!

A 9% fall in yes is great news says a yes supporter...
Near all those undecided are leaning on the no side if you read the link to history of undecided in Ireland.

dav3

RobertKK wrote: »

A 9% fall in yes is great news says a yes supporter...
Near all those undecided are leaning on the no side if you read the link to history of undecided in Ireland.

Or you could read the article posted above where the poll was taken instead of fumbling for irrelevant links. It only took me a minute to read.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/irish-times-poll-public-favour-repeal-of-eighth-despite-slip-in-support-1.3467503?mode=amp

While there may be some concern among repeal campaigners at the tightening of the race, and especially the slippage in their support below the 50 per cent mark, the strength of the repeal position among voters is revealed by a series of additional questions in today’s poll.

Asked about the strength of their conviction for their position, almost 80 per cent of declared repeal voters said that they would “absolutely never” change their mind, or were “extremely unlikely” to do so. Commitment to their declared position was even higher among retain voters.

Among voters who said they were undecided at this stage, twice as many said they were “leaning towards” repeal (30 per cent of undecideds) as were leaning towards keeping the amendment (15 per cent).