The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

horseburger

baylah17 wrote: »

It can
It can be described and is described as a fetus.
You had the definition of a Human Being already Bertie so why keep asking the same question over and over?

If not a human foetus, then what?

A canine foetus?

A feline foetus?

A plant based foetus?

A motor car foetus?

A tractor foetus?

A tomato foetus?

A tree foetus?

This item in the Guardian uses the term "human foetus" with reference to a news item about the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.

I presume since the article uses the term "human foetus" that the College recognizes that term.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/25/human-foetus-no-pain-24-weeks

Are they wrong?

Will you shout at them that they are wrong?

Isn't it understood that when issue like "fetal awareness" and "fetal pain" is discussed by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, that they are referencing humans?

https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/joint-rcogfsrh-statement-on-the-proposed-lowering-of-the-abortion-time-limit-from-24-weeks-to-20-weeks/

Why are you calling me Bertie?

NuMarvel

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I must admit that I sometimes get the feeling that I am talking to a parrot.

Or maybe a sea lion?

SusieBlue

horseburger wrote: »

If not a human foetus, then what?

A canine foetus, a feline foetus? A plant based foetus.

A motor car foetus?

A tractor foetus?

This item in the Guardian uses the term "human foetus" with reference to a news item Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.

I presume since the article uses the term "human foetus" that the College recognizes that term.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/25/human-foetus-no-pain-24-weeks

Are they wrong?

Will you shout at them that it is wrong?

Isn't it understood that when issue like "fetal awareness" and "fetal pain" is discussed by the college, that they are referencing humans?

https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/joint-rcogfsrh-statement-on-the-proposed-lowering-of-the-abortion-time-limit-from-24-weeks-to-20-weeks/

Why are you calling me Bertie?

You're like a broken record.

ELM327

horseburger wrote: »

If not a human foetus, then what?

A canine foetus, a feline foetus? A plant based foetus.

A motor car foetus?

A tractor foetus?

This item in the Guardian uses the term "human foetus" with reference to a news item Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.

I presume since the article uses the term "human foetus" that the College recognizes that term.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/25/human-foetus-no-pain-24-weeks

Are they wrong?

Will you shout at them that it is wrong?

Isn't it understood that when issue like "fetal awareness" and "fetal pain" is discussed by the college, that they are referencing humans?

https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/joint-rcogfsrh-statement-on-the-proposed-lowering-of-the-abortion-time-limit-from-24-weeks-to-20-weeks/

Why are you calling me Bertie?

It is a human fetus.
In the same way that this is a human opinion.
It is not a Human fetus, in the same way that my opinion is not a Human, it is human.

Do you understand the difference between noun and adjective?

I do see some plant based fetuses on the no side alright, crusty old men who have no right to tell Irish women what to do with their bodies.

horseburger

kylith wrote: »

Where has anyone described it as not human? It’s not a human _being_ as outlined in my post that you quoted.

To keep insisting that it is is to try to pass your option off as fact, which is dishonest of you.

More shouted and roared, than described.

It's even been stated many times too!

baylah17 wrote: »

A FETUS IS NOT A HUMAN BEING!

baylah17 wrote: »

How many times do you need it explained , a fetus is NOT a living human being.
Get over it and move on.

Ush1

SusieBlue wrote: »

Are you going to keep dropping in with that, as you have done a few times now, or do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106746768&postcount=5399

Thanked by yourself?

FurtherAway

pleas advice wrote: »

epic, but kinda misses the point completely.

there is a difference between active destruction of a human life, and passive indifference

Please explain why a brain dead woman is then actively kept alive instead of simply let die because she's pregnant, but any other brain dead person (not pregnant, I mean!) would not be kept alive against the wishes of the family, regardless of how many lives could potentially depend on that.

Ave Sodalis

Ush1 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106746768&postcount=5399

Thanked by yourself?

That poster has contributed regularly to the thread.

robarmstrong

horseburger wrote: »

Why are you calling me Bertie?

Presumably because the pair of you have strikingly similar posting styles, thought it may be just an oversight on behalf of the poster.

kylith

horseburger wrote: »

More shouted and roared, than described.

You CAN see the word ‘being’ in there, yeah?

Dude, i’m Just reporting you now because at this stage you are taking the piss.

horseburger

ELM327 wrote: »

It is a human fetus.
In the same way that this is a human opinion.
It is not a Human fetus, in the same way that my opinion is not a Human, it is human.

Do you understand the difference between noun and adjective?

I do see some plant based fetuses on the no side alright, crusty old men who have no right to tell Irish women what to do with their bodies.

Don't get too technical now!:)

What spelling of foetus do you prefer?

Is a fetus different to a foetus?

Ush1

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

That poster has contributed regularly to the thread.

Hardly contributing anything though is it?

horseburger

kylith wrote: »

You CAN see the word ‘being’ in there, yeah?

Dude, i’m Just reporting you now because at this stage you are taking the piss.

I would have thought people who try to argue against logic are pulling the piss.

Timberrrrrrrr

horseburger wrote: »

You know what I meant though, surely?

A living being that starts life in the womb of a female human being, as a result of the joining of a human male sperm and human female egg, can't really be described as anything other than human.

It's made from human DNA

It's not a human being

Seriously.....how are you nit understanding this simple explaination?

Triceratops Ballet

Ush1 wrote: »

Hardly contributing anything though is it?

what are you bringing to the table?

AnneFrank

NuMarvel wrote: »

Repeat it all you want, but you're going to have to do more than just parrot a slogan if you want to convince people.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, either will i try shout down everyone else in this thread with a different opinion.
But thanks for your permission all the same hun.

Ave Sodalis

Ush1 wrote: »

Hardly contributing anything though is it?

Erica is posting here regularly. She has given long and detailed posts on her stance, and her history. The other poster has contributed absolutely nothing except the random "Save the 8th" comments.

darem93

I was delighted to see Dublin full of Yes posters when I was up shopping yesterday. I was also there last weekend and was a bit disheartened to see the No posters by far outnumbering the Yes posters.

However on the way up from Cavan I didn't see a single Yes poster, while every town, village and even poles along the main road were covered in No posters. I think it's obvious the No side have more funding available, but I definitely think it's important the Yes side gets signs out to places outside of Dublin.

robarmstrong

bertieinexile wrote: »

Deleted post.

What happened to "Don't vote Yes unless you are comfortable with abortion on demand of up to 24 weeks"? Where did that route take you?

Also - your statement is wrong, the correct one to make is "Don't vote Yes unless you are comfortable seeing the elimination of 90% of babies prenatally diagnosed with Down Syndrome".

That is what's called an "intelligent, factual argument".

SusieBlue

Ush1 wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106746768&postcount=5399

Thanked by yourself?

Erica74 has made many intelligent, well constructed contributions to this thread and other similar ones. AnneFrank just drops in now and then to say Save the 8th, with absolutely no explanation as to why we should. Massive difference :rolleyes:

Ush1

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

what are you bringing to the table?

....pointing out dogmatism? I'm not the one who said anyone had to "bring something to the table".

robarmstrong

horseburger wrote: »

I would have thought peoplepro-life individuals with no factual counterclaims who try to argue against logic are pulling the piss.

FYP

Zubeneschamali

horseburger wrote: »

Was there something you expected me to say in response to you talking about your appendix?

You are very concerned about the fate of a fetus because it is human and alive.
You are entirely unconcerned about the fate of my appendix, which is also human and alive.

Evidently you think there is some other quality the fetus has which makes it worthy of concern beyond simply being human and alive. Perhaps you could explain.

Sofiztikated

horseburger wrote: »

As I already stated, one of the cases would be where there no chance of any kind of length of life after birth, like anencephaly.

Why though? Why would one abortion be different to another? Surely one human being is equal to another human being?

And what of the human being that that bares it?

What about the woman that has undergone multiple knee surgeries, and the effect a pregnancy has on her body meaning she might end up crippled?

The one trying to get an education to escape poverty?

Potential human being < Current human bring.

Triceratops Ballet

bertieinexile wrote: »

Deleted post.

I had to check the date on this post because I thought I was reading a post from a few days ago.

Why are you talking about Australia?

bertieinexile wrote: »

Deleted post.

90% of people with DS will be eliminated really?
Talk about a fanciful twisting of the truth, can you link me to the details of this proposed genocide?

Mr. CooL ICE

horseburger wrote: »

Don't get too technical now!:)

What spelling of foetus do you prefer?

Is a fetus different to a foetus?

Mod: Enough of this nonsense. This line of argument is serving no purpose other than to derail the thread.

Stop with the 'human' argument. Refer to this post. Perhaps a primary school English textbook if you're still confused.



Everyone else, stop referencing horseburger's use of the 'human' argument. Otherwise, you will be adding to the thread derailment.

AnneFrank

Ush1 wrote: »

....pointing out dogmatism? I'm not the one who said anyone had to "bring something to the table".

It's ok though, as long as you agree with them.

Wombatman

bertieinexile wrote: »

Deleted post.

Would reducing the incidence of ds births to zero not be a good thing?

NuMarvel

One thing about posters: they're are an important part of the campaign, but talking to people is key to a Yes win. Over 13,000 people donated to the crowdfunding; if they all just convinced 5 undecided or No people to vote yes before the referendum, that's 65,000 people. Referendums have been won and lost on far less.

Posters are all well and good, but don't get complacent by thinking the more posters that are up, the more likely people will vote Yes.

horseburger

darem93 wrote: »

I was delighted to see Dublin full of Yes posters when I was up shopping yesterday. I was also there last weekend and was a bit disheartened to see the No posters by far outnumbering the Yes posters.

However on the way up from Cavan I didn't see a single Yes poster, while every town, village and even poles along the main road were covered in No posters. I think it's obvious the No side have more funding available, but I definitely think it's important the Yes side gets signs out to places outside of Dublin.

Can I ask you since you mentioned Cavan.

Did you think that Niamh Smyth TD Fianna Fáil, when she spoke about the issue of the Eighth Amendment, spoke sincerely, when she raised concerns about abortion, when she spoke on Tonight with Matt and Ivan on TV3 recently?

Is she anti-woman?

I thought she spoke sincerely on this clearly very contentious issue, where there are certain pro choice groups, who are every bit as hostile to opposing views, as certain pro life groups.