The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Annasopra

applehunter wrote: »

Pro choice posters like myself can point out how abortion laws have hugely increased abortion rates in the UK while also acknowledging that Ireland is a sovereign nation where the unborn child is given constitutional protection and abortion rates remain low.

Yes you can point this out.
However the reality is that banning abortion does not lower the rates. Numerous studies have proved this.
Regarding Irelands rate we dont know what they are really. We know some UK figures. We dont know how many women purchase abortion pills online. We dont know how msny women goto other countries. We dont know how many women give false addresses to UK clinics.

Annasopra

amdublin wrote: »

Thought provoking (pro-choice) article in the times today

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/long-experience-informs-shifting-views-in-abortion-debate-1.3449443?mode=amp

It's about older people who will be voting yes for repeal. A good article I thought.



A question. Tomorrow do the Irish Times need to publish a pro life article from Breda or something? Does there have to be the balance that RTE adhere to?

No

That law is only for broadcast media

Kurtosis

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No

That law is only for broadcast media

And even at that, the Broadcasting Authority if Ireland have said that for referendums, a 50:50 isn't necessarily required: [url] https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/abortion-broadcasters-have-no-obligation-to-give-equal-air-time-1.3425366?mode=amp[/url]

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seamus

posturingpat wrote: »

I'm based in a small town in Wexford and have seen at least twice as many pro choice posters? Is there a big push in this area for any particular reason?

The pro-choice campaign is being focussed where it's most needed.

Much of Dublin rejected the 8th amendment the first time around, and the Dublin constituencies which didn't, had some of the lowest "Yes" margins.

Polling suggests that the repeal is an absolute winner in Dublin, probably exceeding 80% in some areas, and there's very little chance that anything is going to swing it back.

So both the pro-choice and pro-life campaigns are focussing in the areas which will have more undecideds and voters who are more malleable (i.e. people who may have had less exposure to, or less debate about, abortion).

Zubeneschamali

Here is the map from 1983:

seamus

Yeah, my bad, I misread some data. It was five Dublin constituencies which rejected it, six passed.

In any case, it still illustrates why campaigning is so heavily focussed outside of the Dublin region. The rest of Leinster being surprisingly conservative in comparison to other more traditionally conservative strongholds.

fizzypish

Is there a source of relatively unbiased information I can access. I imagine the posters of this thread have come across good stuff. Good podcast ideally? Pro lifers came to the door yesterday and I have finally started thinking on the upcoming vote. I'm pretty much in the pro choice camp but would like to be more educated. I'm uninterested in anecdotal evidence/stories as both sides have awful tales to tell and this doesn't aid my decision. I'm interested in the facts, hows England fairing after having abortion legal for donkeys years, where does the law say its ok to abort up to (5,6,7 months?) etc.....
Cheers,
Fizzy.

citygal93

re: the "Love Both" posters which have been put up around Dublin now - they make a claim "1 in 5 babies in England are aborted". Apart from the fact that you can't compare babies being born with abortions carried out, I can't find any "1 in 5" or 25% figure in the publication which Love Both cited (British Dept of Health figures 2015). I've emailed Love Both but am yet to get a reply. Anyone any ideas on where they've got these figures or how they can get away with publishing this totally incorrect figure?

Zubeneschamali

fizzypish wrote: »

Is there a source of relatively unbiased information I can access.

This Citizen's Assembly page has links to their final report and to the cross-party Oireachteas Committee material.

captbarnacles

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

If you get banned from politics dot ie, does anyone know if they delete all your posts too, or would you be able to delete them all after being banned?

Some still there, quite the posting history. Colour me shocked.

Zubeneschamali

citygal93 wrote: »

re: the "Love Both" posters which have been put up around Dublin now - they make a claim "1 in 5 babies in England are aborted".

It's based on #abortions vs. #live births.

~180K abortions, ~700K live births.

Zubeneschamali

captbarnacles wrote: »

Some still there, quite the posting history. Colour me shocked.

I only see bits quoted in posts by other people, not the originals. Someone did a purge at some stage, perhaps to hide the defence of boom-time FF, or paedophile priests, or offences against politics dot ie's "gay Sharia" (???).

Water John

Location or Constituency doesn't matter in a Ref, it's the total votes on each side.
Campaigns certainly would focus on where the most undecideds are. More bang for their buck, so to speak.

January

Hope thís posts. Some of the things being delivered with toy catalogues. Actually stuffed in the pages so as not to be immediately obvious.

FutureGuy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It's based on #abortions vs. #live births.

~180K abortions, ~700K live births.

Yep, more absolute sh!te and unfortunately we live in a time when most voters will not question these facts.

amdublin

January wrote: »

Hope thís posts. Some of the things being delivered with toy catalogues. Actually stuffed in the pages so as not to be immediately obvious.

That is the weirdest thing I've seen yet.

Very very odd.

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citygal93

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It's based on #abortions vs. #live births.

~180K abortions, ~700K live births.

and do you know what these "180k abortions" are? Like, are they including taking the morning after pill (as i've seen in some places - wtf)

January

....... wrote: »

Who delivered that?

A distribution company. Banba toymaster haven't said who they are.

Bannasidhe

January wrote: »

Hope thís posts. Some of the things being delivered with toy catalogues. Actually stuffed in the pages so as not to be immediately obvious.

My cousin's 12 year old daughter has been having nightmares since seeing some of the "pro-life" posters up in rural Cork. :mad:
Just demonstrates their complete lack of regard for the welfare of children that they would deliberately place distressing images near schools.
Mind you, in this instance it turned a woman and her husband who were content to simply vote for Repeal into active canvassers and p*ssed off most of the parents whose children have to walk this gauntlet of horror.

Kurtosis

citygal93 wrote: »

and do you know what these "180k abortions" are? Like, are they including taking the morning after pill (as i've seen in some places - wtf)

The report that these statistics come from are available here. From a brief read, the 180k does seem to only include actual terminations of pregnancy, and only for residents of England and Wales (or those giving a false address in England/Wales).

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January

....... wrote: »

Someone paid someone to print that.

And the same someone paid for it to be distributed.

Send it to a journalist and ask them to find out.

Actually - theres a bit cropped in your pic - Visit protectwomenprotec

post the website and we can do a whois

Not my image but I'll contact the owner and find out

Hammer Archer

January wrote: »

Hope thís posts. Some of the things being delivered with toy catalogues. Actually stuffed in the pages so as not to be immediately obvious.

Just so I'm clear, their line is "Allow women to choose not to have abortions in Ireland by not allowing any women to choose to have abortions in Ireland"?
Really?

seamus

It's probably protectwomenprotectlife but I can't find a .org, .com or .ie domain.

Most likely just another front for Cora Sherlock and the other loonies.

Their latest position of retreat is to try and call out to "pro-life feminism", to create the illusion that pro-choice groups have hijacked feminism and forced women to believe that they have to be pro-choice if they're feminists.

To give even the distributor the benefit of the doubt, most likely they just have a stack of stuff to be delivered that day, and where possible they stuff the smaller stuff into the bigger stuff to make it easier to distribute. And the rest of the century, it's OK that you have fast food leaflets and even Fianna Fail newsletters stuffed inside your toy catalogue.

In this case though, someone should have spotted the potential conflict before the stuff went out. Hopefully it means that this distributor (and others) will have a rethink about their policies when it comes to delivering political leaflets, and maybe group them into two-weekly drops, or force them to pay more to do a drop with just their material.

Zubeneschamali

seamus wrote: »

It's probably protectwomenprotectlife but I can't find a .org, .com or .ie domain.

https://protectwomenprotectthe8th.wordpress.com/

Protect The Amendment That Protects Women From Forced Abortions

Nice silhouette of a man beating up a woman at the top, repeated even bigger below.

Seems to be just a catch-and-refer to a facebook group https://www.facebook.com/ProtectWomenProtectThe8th.ie

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Nettle Soup

January wrote: »

Hope thís posts. Some of the things being delivered with toy catalogues. Actually stuffed in the pages so as not to be immediately obvious.

Wow!!

The person that compiled that is a complete weirdo!

Nobody will swallow that nonsense.

gctest50

....... wrote: »

Wordpress site so not really traceable - although its coming from San Francisco - so likely american money behind it.

Someone called Richard Quirke