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Bus Eireann Lose 6 Kildare Routes to Go-Ahead

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    #32
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Wouldn't be a good start. Are the hire -ins not a case of been short of buses as well rather than just drivers

    Can be both, but usually due to lack of driver.


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    #33
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    With Waterford and now these, how much of the 10% of BE routes does this represent?


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    #34
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    No relevance whatsoever,as Go-Ahead Dublin is registered in Ireland and to all intents and purposes is an IRISH operation.

    The prospect of a Hard Border at Johnstown in thankfully...remote.....I hope....:D

    As it is, there is a Hard Border sealing off Johnstown and long may it last :)


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    #35
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,332 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2018/0316/947911-bus-eireann-kildare/

    Dunno whether to laugh or cry or cry from the laughter at what BE and the unions are saying in that report

    Does anyone know how controlled GA are by the unions? They have held the country to ransom enough at this stage.

    This is hilarous...
    NBRU General Secretary Dermot O'Leary has warned of "major industrial unrest" if any other routes are privatised.

    and then this
    "forced to move from Bus Éireann to an inferior employer".

    They are seriously living in cloud cuckoo land


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    #36
    bebeman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭bebeman


    GM228 wrote: »

    All other contracts (including BE Waterford) are competitive tender gross cost contracts and not availible for the public to view, they are considered commercially sensitive (whilst not a PSO service contract the LUAS contract is considered the same - commercially sensitive). The old BE Route 817 was a competitive tender gross cost contract and this too was not availible to the public.

    This is in accordance with EU Regulation.

    We call that shenanigans!


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    #37
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Does anyone know how controlled GA are by the unions? They have held the country to ransom enough at this stage.

    GA have had huge IR issues in the UK especially in their rail businesses with ASLEF.

    There is no indication as to weather or not they will deal with unions here.


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    #38
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,332 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    GM228 wrote: »
    GA have had huge IR issues in the UK especially in their rail businesses with ASLEF.

    There is no indication as to weather or not they will deal with unions here.

    My comment didn't indicate I meant BE have held...

    Rail issues in the UK have been going on for years now.


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    #39
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Dunno whether to laugh or cry or cry from the laughter at what BE and the unions are saying in that report

    Does anyone know how controlled GA are by the unions? They have held the country to ransom enough at this stage.

    This is hilarous...


    and then this


    They are seriously living in cloud cuckoo land


    i would be surprised if the union or unions weren't to be in go ahead. the unions don't hold the country to ransom but will rightly look after the terms and conditions of their members. the unions being in the private operators will be a good thing as it will prevent another london situation in terms of wages and drivers.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #40
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,332 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    end of the road wrote: »
    the unions don't hold the country to ransom but will rightly look after the terms and conditions of their members

    It's not 1900, we have labour courts and laws to protect workers now so yes unions do hold the country to ransom, it's not individuals with a gripe
    The country has been for too long held to ransom by the rampant unionisation.
    All well and good to protect the rights of workers but not to bring a country to a standstill because the unions think a sub sect of workers deserve a pay rise even though the company is hemorrhaging money and barely staying afloat


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    #41
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    fritzelly wrote: »
    It's not 1900, we have labour courts and laws to protect workers now so yes unions do hold the country to ransom, it's not individuals with a gripe
    The country has been for too long held to ransom by the rampant unionisation.
    All well and good to protect the rights of workers but not to bring a country to a standstill because the unions think a sub sect of workers deserve a pay rise even though the company is hemorrhaging money and barely staying afloat


    labour courts and laws aren't enough, enforcers and advisers are needed, aka unions are needed and exist. the unions don't hold the country to ransom and unionisation is good for workers. the country hasn't been brought to a stand still by unions for decades, in fact the snow is more likely to bring the country to a stand still then a strike.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #42
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    end of the road wrote: »
    i would be surprised if the union or unions weren't to be in go ahead. the unions don't hold the country to ransom but will rightly look after the terms and conditions of their members. the unions being in the private operators will be a good thing as it will prevent another london situation in terms of wages and drivers.

    So what right have they to be threatening another strike just because it was awarded to another company?

    Who's to say the drivers in Go Ahead won't have the same or better conditions.


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    #43
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I would say that on the quality aspect of the bid, the constant service cancellations every day on tendered operations as listed on the Bus Eireann website really hit them.


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    #44
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,332 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    salonfire wrote: »
    So what right have they to be threatening another strike just because it was awarded to another company?

    Who's to say the drivers in Go Ahead won't have the same or better conditions.

    Exactly


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    #45
    bebeman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭bebeman


    fritzelly wrote: »
    even though the company is hemorrhaging money and barely staying afloat

    DB and BE could turn huge profits within a month if that is what the Government want.
    Profit is not what they want, they want buses in and out of every little village and housing estate, running a service when only a hand full will be on board.
    Don't forget over 1 million, close to a quarter of the population has unlimited free travel for €70 million a year.
    Less than €70 a year per person for unlimited travel on DB/BE/IE/LUAS, for some perspective a DB 30 day Travelwide Monthly is €134.

    If these FTP holders paid only once a week the minimum fare of €1.50 each way to go collect their pension/dole that alone is €156 per year. How many other paid journeys would these people make in a year?
    Now imagine how much money DB/BE/IE/LUAS would make if the FTP was scrapped?
    IDB/BE/IE/LUAS could drastically cut the cost of fares if there was no FTP and still turn a handsome profit.

    So quit the BS about CIE loosing money, the Government want it this way


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    #46
    bebeman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭bebeman


    fritzelly wrote: »
    It's not 1900, we have labour courts and laws to protect workers now so yes unions do hold the country to ransom, it's not individuals with a gripe
    The country has been for too long held to ransom by the rampant unionisation.
    All well and good to protect the rights of workers but not to bring a country to a standstill because the unions think a sub sect of workers deserve a pay rise even though the company is hemorrhaging money and barely staying afloat

    Hold your horses, we have posters here working overtime and not getting paid, how can this be so if we have Labour courts and laws to protect workers?


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    #47
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    There will be a BE/DB strike within 12 months, the NTA plan to allow other routes go to tender where they feel its needed.

    They will of course have the consultation with unions lather this year about it but I think most know it will be happening hence the threats by the NBRU today.

    IMO a minimum of 30% should be out to tender or unions make a deal with the NTA that any industrial action guarantees a minimum service on core routes considering the monopoly they have. Union actions over the last few years played a major role in the current set up and in most cases a strike was never really justified when you look and pre/post proposals on offer in relation to pay etc.

    It's lose lose situation for them now.


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    #48
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    IMO a minimum of 30% should be out to tender or unions make a deal with the NTA that any industrial action guarantees a minimum service on core routes considering the monopoly they have.

    i'd say there would likely be little to nothing to gain for the unions making such a deal. realistically they could achieve a good strike by doing pay negotiations across all companies at the same time anyway negating tendering as a strike breaking measure. i'd be surprised if we had more then 3 operators within the dublin area on tendered routes but i guess time will tell.
    anyway it's much easier for us all to have no service then wondering what is running and what isn't. at least with a strike we know there isn't going to be a service so we can plan around it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #49
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    fritzelly wrote: »
    This is hilarous...
    NBRU General Secretary Dermot O'Leary has warned of "major industrial unrest" if any other routes are privatised.
    Jaysus H christ! Do they want the general public to call for a lot more than 10% of the routes to go private?
    end of the road wrote: »
    i would be surprised if the union or unions weren't to be in go ahead
    The company will just have it in their contract that they won't negotiate with unions.
    fritzelly wrote: »
    the company is hemorrhaging money and barely staying afloat
    TBH, if they cut a few routes that don't collect many passengers, they'd be doing well. When I went to IT Carlow, there'd be a good few times when there'd be only me and maybe 2 others from Dublin going to Carlow, even after snaking through all the little towns along the way.

    A public transport service will never really make money if it has to do unprofitable routes.


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    #50
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the_syco wrote: »
    Jaysus H christ! Do they want the general public to call for a lot more than 10% of the routes to go private?

    i'd imagine they won't particularly care what the public call for given that having the routes go private won't make a difference in terms of strikes, staff seeking pay rises and fare rises, because the NTA control fares, and it's likely that there will only be a couple of operators, for which the unions will likely decide to do (for example) pay negotiations at the same time across those operators.
    the_syco wrote: »
    The company will just have it in their contract that they won't negotiate with unions.

    they could do that, but as the union will eventually get in, and given they have unions in their other operations, they may as well negotiate with them from the start.
    the_syco wrote: »
    TBH, if they cut a few routes that don't collect many passengers, they'd be doing well. When I went to IT Carlow, there'd be a good few times when there'd be only me and maybe 2 others from Dublin going to Carlow, even after snaking through all the little towns along the way.

    on the face of it it's a bit of a problem, but those routes do ultimately provide a social need, assuming they are PSO services. if they are PSO routes, BE cannot cut them, as the NTA control them and the company is paid to operate them. if they are commercial routes, then chances are they will go.
    the_syco wrote: »
    A public transport service will never really make money if it has to do unprofitable routes.

    agreed. so for it to be profitable most of the routes in the country would likely have to go, including heavily used all be it not quite profitable routes. however, i'd imagine the huge increase in car usage would very much cost us a lot more then providing those services.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #51
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    end of the road wrote: »
    labour courts and laws aren't enough, enforcers and advisers are needed, aka unions are needed and exist. the unions don't hold the country to ransom and unionisation is good for workers. the country hasn't been brought to a stand still by unions for decades, in fact the snow is more likely to bring the country to a stand still then a strike.

    Saying that laws aren't enough is a damning indictment of how much a scourge that unions are in this country. The Luas drivers strike only demonstrated that unions are there to blackmail and squeeze the public. Saying they are good for the workers is tantamount to saying the mafia is good for mafia members.

    But this announcement is great for the people of Kildare who will get a bus service that isn't going to be experiencing the same disruption due to strikes as seen in BE. Another nail in the SIPTU / NBRU coffin.


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    #52
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Saying that laws aren't enough is a damning indictment of how much a scourge that unions are in this country.

    it really isn't. it's proof that laws need people on the ground to insure they are abided by, which unions do. the unions aren't a scurge, but a good tool for those who want to be in them.
    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    The Luas drivers strike only demonstrated that unions are there to blackmail and squeeze the public.

    not at all. it showed the unions were not afraid to look for a better deal for their members from a private company, and that private operation doesn't stop a strike from happening, which was necessary for the public to see.
    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    But this announcement is great for the people of Kildare who will get a bus service that isn't going to be experiencing the same disruption due to strikes as seen in BE.

    until they eventually strike, which they will at some stage. this announcement won't make any difference to the people of those routes, because the operator is supposed to be irrelevant. what will make the difference is a frequency increase long term, but that will be an NTA decisian.
    how many people thought the staff at luas would never strike because it is privately run?
    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Another nail in the SIPTU / NBRU coffin.

    neither will be going anywhere for a very long time. i'd say one of them will be in go ahead quite quickly. if not, they will be at some stage.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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