Bus Eireann Lose 6 Kildare Routes to Go-Ahead

Jamie2k9

https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2018/0316/947911-bus-eireann-kildare/

Bus Éireann has lost the right to operate six routes on the Kildare bus corridor after an open tender was won by the UK firm Go-Ahead.

National Transport Authority CEO Anne Graham said that around 70 Bus Éireann bus drivers would be affected, but said that as the market is growing, redundancies were not expected.

Ms Graham declined to reveal the amount of the Go-Ahead bid, however, she said the contract had been awarded on criteria of 65% of points for price, and 35% for quality.

Jamie2k9

Routes are 120, 120C, 123, 124, 126, 130

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Be interesting to see what go ahead charge. The service from naas (126) is dismal. Regularly late and nearly 11 quid return to city centre. The rush hour bus takes nearly an hour an a half to get in because it leaves way too late. And only two go to Stephens green with the rest going up the quays. Hopefully go ahead address these issues

Jamie2k9

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Be interesting to see what go ahead charge. The service from naas (126) is dismal. Regularly late and nearly 11 quid return to city centre. The rush hour bus takes nearly an hour an a half to get in because it leaves way too late. And only two go to Stephens green with the rest going up the quays. Hopefully go ahead address these issues

NTA say no price changes expected. The above link has now updated info and whinging from the NBRU!

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

NTA say no price changes expected. The above link has now updated info and whinging from the NBRU!

Strange when they said 65% of the bid was based on pricing. Suggests that bus eireann were going to jack up the price if they had got it then

gordongekko

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Strange when they said 65% of the bid was based on pricing. Suggests that bus eireann were going to jack up the price if they had got it then

Or they both scored equally on price but their service let them down

gmg678

will goahead  take tax saver tickets I wonder?
Will they cut smaller villages out, like Coill Dubh and Staffan?

LeinsterDub

gmg678 wrote: »

will goahead  take tax saver tickets I wonder?
Will they cut smaller villages out, like Coill Dubh and Staffan?

The ticketing and the routes are controlled by the NTA so I'd imagine not.

Kfagan10

Ticketing, leap cards etc will stay the same as a result of continued NTA regulation.

Also 23 new vehicles, all wheelchair accessible, are to be purchased for use over these routes.

cfuserkildare

I wonder how this will be affected by UKs withdrawal from EU?
Will Brexit cause these Bus Routes to disappear?

AlekSmart

gordongekko wrote: »

Or they both scored equally on price but their service let them down

It appears to be a rereun of the Bus Aha Cliath BMO process,with the incumbent scoring well on the cost element,only to lose out on the Quality proviso.

The strength of the Go-Ahead bid tends to be their proven track record in meeting Quality Targets set by Regulatory & Tendering Agencies abroad.

Under the current direct award contracts to the CIE companies,it is only very recently within the lifetime of the second tranche of DA tenders that externally verified compliance was introduced,whereas,Go-Ahead had decades of TfL and other bodies verifiable monitoring results.

With the NTA currently recruiting staff for their compliance monitoring sections,Commuting customers will need to get comfortable with making their views known to a completely different entity than the actual operator.

https://www.transportforireland.ie/nta-announces-preferred-bidder-for-bus-services-on-kildare-commuter-corridor/

AlekSmart

cfuserkildare wrote: »

I wonder how this will be affected by UKs withdrawal from EU?
Will Brexit cause these Bus Routes to disappear?

No relevance whatsoever,as Go-Ahead Dublin is registered in Ireland and to all intents and purposes is an IRISH operation.

The prospect of a Hard Border at Johnstown in thankfully...remote.....I hope....:D

AlmightyCushion

cfuserkildare wrote: »

I wonder how this will be affected by UKs withdrawal from EU?
Will Brexit cause these Bus Routes to disappear?

Why would it? Plenty of non EU companies operate here and go ahead operate in non EU countries. In the unlikely event they do pull the plug here, then the nta can just re-tender it.

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

With the NTA currently recruiting staff for their compliance monitoring sections,Commuting customers will need to get comfortable with making their views known to a completely different entity than the actual operator.

Brilliant, it is not as if you ever got anywhere complaining to DB or BE IME.

n97 mini

I wonder will they get off to as poor a start as with the 139: no signage anywhere and no RTPI integration.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

I wonder will they get off to as poor a start as with the 139: no signage anywhere and no RTPI integration.

Many appear willing to cut the NTA some slack on the 139 startup,but I am of the opposite opinion.

With the Tendering process now fully operational,the NTA now have to step out of the background and take possession of the Public facing role they have so assidiously sought.

It is not as if the 139 tendering process included some huge technical impediment or was beset with problems,in fact,the opposite is the case,with the process being virtually self managing.

IF the 139 startup is to be now taken as the standard for future NTA operations,then this nees to be challenged NOW,in advance of a Luas Cross City situation being allowed to become the norm.

The first priority is to make the Contract Provisions PUBLIC,with whatever financial details are deemeed commercially sensitive redacted.

For some odd reason,whilst ALL PSO contracts relevant to the CIE companies are in the Public Domain,the NTA have been markedly reticent in relation to the Dublin BMO contracts now signed and in place...Why the need to keep these out of the Public eye ?

The era of the paper Destination Slip should be long gone.

devnull

Alek - the Bus Eireann contract for Waterford routes isn't public either.

There have been three competitive tenders for existing routes and none of them are public, two won by Go-Ahead and one by Bus Eireann - that doesn't seem to suggest there is anything untoward going on since it seems pretty consistent.

devnull

AlekSmart wrote: »

gordongekko wrote: »

Or they both scored equally on price but their service let them down

It appears to be a rereun of the Bus Aha Cliath BMO process,with the incumbent scoring well on the cost element,only to lose out on the Quality proviso.

The strength of the Go-Ahead bid tends to be their proven track record in meeting Quality Targets set by Regulatory & Tendering Agencies abroad.

Under the current direct award contracts to the CIE companies,it is only very recently within the lifetime of the second tranche of DA tenders that externally verified compliance was introduced,whereas,Go-Ahead had decades of TfL and other bodies verifiable monitoring results.

With the NTA currently recruiting staff for their compliance monitoring sections,Commuting customers will need to get comfortable with making their views known to a completely different entity than the actual operator.

https://www.transportforireland.ie/nta-announces-preferred-bidder-for-bus-services-on-kildare-commuter-corridor/

In the NTA plan for the next few years there was an interesting aim in relation to beefing up the monitoring and compliance and making it more robust and challenging for operators to meet, or something to that effect.

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

Alek - the Bus Eireann contract for Waterford routes isn't public either.

There have been three competitive tenders for existing routes and none of them are public, two won by Go-Ahead and one by Bus Eireann - that doesn't seem to suggest there is anything untoward going on since it seems pretty consistent.

It is this consistently that is somewhat concerning.

ALL of the contracts are Public Record documents once the appropriate statutory requirements are met and the documents signed.

Why are the BMO contract provisions not public,in the exact same manner as the current PSO Contracts are ?

BTW,in case you feel a Public vs Private moment coming on,I include the M&A Coaches contracts and whatever other Private operators contracts there are out there.

The Bus Atha Cliath 10% announcement was on the 10th August 2017 and I fail to see why,in March 2018 we still have not sight of the contract.

It certainly does'nt meet the standards in place elsewhere in the Bus Market Tendering world...

https://www.lta.gov.sg/apps/news/page.aspx?c=2&id=a0d4d08f-32f9-4a7a-804b-a0e97e9c19e6

The Annex's contain the pertinent information which,bizzarely,appear to be subject to Top Secrecy rules in our form of democracy ?

devnull

Deedsie wrote: »

Any chance they could ever lose the X12 bus route as they ain't running it well. NTA have zero interest in holding them to account either

It's a commercial. Self funded route so outside the scope of tendering.

bk

I wonder what will happen with the use of Bus Aras for these routes.

I realise most operate from Connolly, so they avoid that issue, but a few do, I suppose they'll move them out of Bus Aras.

It seems like Go Ahead are very serious about entering the market here, looks like they will be a major player across the Dublin region.

Stephen15

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Be interesting to see what go ahead charge. The service from naas (126) is dismal. Regularly late and nearly 11 quid return to city centre. The rush hour bus takes nearly an hour an a half to get in because it leaves way too late. And only two go to Stephens green with the rest going up the quays. Hopefully go ahead address these issues

That's a disgraceful fare considering it's only €3.70 from Sallins to Hueston on the train. Buses should always be less than trains not more.

Stephen15

bk wrote: »

I wonder what will happen with the use of Bus Aras for these routes.

I realise most operate from Connolly, so they avoid that issue, but a few do, I suppose they'll move them out of Bus Aras.

It seems like Go Ahead are very serious about entering the market here, looks like they will be a major player across the Dublin region.

It wouldn't surprise me if they went for the Luas contract too when Transdev's expires.

salonfire

Stephen15 wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me if they went for the Luas contract too when Transdev's expires.

I hope they do.

The fact there is a choice of operators to run the Luas is fantastic. The problems Transdev had could be their loss in the long run.

Jamie2k9

salonfire wrote: »

I hope they do.

The fact there is a choice of operators to run the Luas is fantastic. The problems Transdev had could be their loss in the long run.

Why, they wouldn't have handled the current problems any differently.

end of the road

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Be interesting to see what go ahead charge. The service from naas (126) is dismal. Regularly late and nearly 11 quid return to city centre. The rush hour bus takes nearly an hour an a half to get in because it leaves way too late. And only two go to Stephens green with the rest going up the quays. Hopefully go ahead address these issues

GA likely wouldn't be able to address those issues given they seem to be both a timetable and specified route issue? fares are set by the NTA also so GA wouldn't have any control on that score either.
effectively they will just run what the NTA specify in the manner they specify.

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Strange when they said 65% of the bid was based on pricing. Suggests that bus eireann were going to jack up the price if they had got it then

NTA control fares so bus eireann couldn't simply jack them up.

salonfire wrote: »

I hope they do.

The fact there is a choice of operators to run the Luas is fantastic. The problems Transdev had could be their loss in the long run.

actually i am not sure there really is a choice of operators. can anyone remember how many operators bid for the previous luas contracts?
the possible choice of operators wouldn't really be relevant anyway as the tenderer specifies what runs and how it runs, within the criteria set out by the tenderer. whoever meets that gets the contract.
the problems with the luas currently aren't much, if anything to do with transdev by the sounds of things but the implementation of luas cross-city as a whole. there are other entities who had a part to play and they failed in their part to address the traffic issues. transdev can only now work with what they have.

IE 222

Its a serious amount of Drivers GA are going to need to get.

What happens if G/A can't provide the services due to a lack of drivers.

Ballymount and Redcow is already jammed during the day adding all these extra buses is going to lead to problems.

Stephen15

I take it GA will be using the same depot for their ex-DB routes and the ex-BE routes.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

Alek - the Bus Eireann contract for Waterford routes isn't public either.

There have been three competitive tenders for existing routes and none of them are public, two won by Go-Ahead and one by Bus Eireann - that doesn't seem to suggest there is anything untoward going on since it seems pretty consistent.

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is this consistently that is somewhat concerning.

ALL of the contracts are Public Record documents once the appropriate statutory requirements are met and the documents signed.

Why are the BMO contract provisions not public,in the exact same manner as the current PSO Contracts are ?

BTW,in case you feel a Public vs Private moment coming on,I include the M&A Coaches contracts and whatever other Private operators contracts there are out there.

The Bus Atha Cliath 10% announcement was on the 10th August 2017 and I fail to see why,in March 2018 we still have not sight of the contract.

It certainly does'nt meet the standards in place elsewhere in the Bus Market Tendering world...

https://www.lta.gov.sg/apps/news/page.aspx?c=2&id=a0d4d08f-32f9-4a7a-804b-a0e97e9c19e6

The Annex's contain the pertinent information which,bizzarely,appear to be subject to Top Secrecy rules in our form of democracy ?

The contracts with M&A, IE, DB and BE (except Waterford) are direct award net costs contracts and must be available to.view.

All other contracts (including BE Waterford) are competitive tender gross cost contracts and not availible for the public to view, they are considered commercially sensitive (whilst not a PSO service contract the LUAS contract is considered the same - commercially sensitive). The old BE Route 817 was a competitive tender gross cost contract and this too was not availible to the public.

This is in accordance with EU Regulation.

devnull

IE 222 wrote: »

Its a serious amount of Drivers GA are going to need to get.

What happens if G/A can't provide the services due to a lack of drivers.

Ballymount and Redcow is already jammed during the day adding all these extra buses is going to lead to problems.

I assume that they will use hire-ins if they need to, I doubt it will come to that, but it's an option and BE are doing a lot of hire ins recently on Dublin Commuter services.

IE 222

devnull wrote: »

I assume that they will use hire-ins if they need to, I doubt it will come to that, but it's an option and BE are doing a lot of hire ins recently on Dublin Commuter services.

Wouldn't be a good start. Are the hire -ins not a case of been short of buses as well rather than just drivers