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Salisbury Nerve Agent Attack

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    demfad wrote: »
    "Hundreds of supporters of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny began a nationwide day of protest against the authorities on Sunday, calling on voters to boycott what they said was a rigged presidential election on March
    Beneath bright blue skies, hundreds of young people gathered in the main square of the port of Vladivostok in the Russian Far East. Speakers called the election, which polls show incumbent Vladimir Putin should easily win, a farce." https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/28/russian-opposition-takes-to-streets-calls-for-election-boycott.html

    Do you believe these people are supporters or opponents of Putin? Good man, correct. Stop spreading disinformation.





    Attached is a PDF of a US congressional study documenting 20 countries that have been attacked in thsi decade via information warfare. We know that Russia also admitted that its forces were responsible for invading Crimea and East Ukraine. THis kind of invasion has NOT happenned in Europe since WW2. Destabilising democracies and invading them brings us closer to war. Wouldn't you agree?




    The Sunday Times reported that Russian intellience has been observed and intercepted trying to aquire IT equipment in Ireland, human assets and has upgraded massively its technological capabilities from its embassy here. It has upgarded the embassy to a very large compound and is oerating nefariously from it. In EVERY other State that this behaviour has occurred Russia has moved to attack it with disinformationa nd sometimes Cyberwarfare. The indictment of 13 Russians by Mueller indicate their prepatory work was similar to what gardai have observed here.

    Ergo I can declare with reasonable certainty that they are up to no good here and that the "no-good" based on all their previous attacks will amount to information warfare against the democratic processes of thsi state and to widen and polarise existing positions creating division and chaos.

    Calling something inflammatory while talking through your back side wont cut it. Be offended if you like.
    Why are you preparing to attack us?
    This IS inflammatory ^

    I'm as interested in Navalny as I am in Pussy Riot - same thing, attention seekers.

    You went to the trouble of posting a long reply but sorry, I wouldn't depend on a US Congressional study or the Sunday Times as reliable or impartial sources.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭weisses


    pearcider wrote: »
    The Ukraine is Russia's back yard. The Russians were inevitably going to make a stand against western expansion at some point. There are no good guys here. But you seem to think western interests are entirely benign. Wake up.

    So Russia's phobia against the west somehow makes it okay to invade a sovereign nation .... got it :rolleyes: Dunno how this connects to Skripal though


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭weisses


    This IS inflammatory ^

    I'm as interested in Navalny as I am in Pussy Riot - same thing, attention seekers.

    You went to the trouble of posting a long reply but sorry, I wouldn't depend on a US Congressional study or the Sunday Times as reliable or impartial sources.

    What do you find an impartial source ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    weisses wrote: »
    So Russia's phobia against the west somehow makes it okay to invade a sovereign nation .... got it :rolleyes: Dunno how this connects to Skripal though

    That's the idea. Pretty much all threads on Russia end up with whataboutism. it's really easy to spot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    weisses wrote: »
    So Russia's phobia against the west somehow makes it okay to invade a sovereign nation .... got it :rolleyes: Dunno how this connects to Skripal though

    Russia's phobia to the west. Hmmm it's quite clear the Cold War continues against the Russians. 1999 NATO expansion. 2002 AMB treaty withdrawal. 2003 Iraq war under false pretences. Need I go on? All extremely provocative acts by the west. Anybody would think they wanted a war...which of course, they do.

    Skripal is part of the bigger picture. The ongoing war waged by the Anglo American establishment against Russia. Skripal was a spy at the end of the day one of the KGBs own. Spies are murdered all the time. My sympathy is limited.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭weisses


    pearcider wrote: »
    Russia's phobia to the west. Hmmm it's quite clear the Cold War continues against the Russians. 1999 NATO expansion. 2002 AMB treaty withdrawal. 2003 Iraq war under false pretences. Need I go on? All extremely provocative acts by the west. Anybody would think they wanted a war...which of course, they do.

    Engaging in whataboutery is not making your point any clearer

    Dont mix up countries looking for safety because they were sick of communist rule with western expansion.

    Trying to make your point by saying that the bad Americans did it as well doesn't stick
    pearcider wrote: »
    Skripal is part of the bigger picture. The ongoing war waged by the Anglo American establishment against Russia. Skripal was a spy at the end of the day one of the KGBs own. Spies are murdered all the time. My sympathy is limited.

    Ohh so now he was poisoned by the anglo American establishment ? ... right

    At least you are not hiding your blind devotion and allegiance


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,761 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    pearcider wrote: »
    Russia's phobia to the west. Hmmm it's quite clear the Cold War continues against the Russians. 1999 NATO expansion. 2002 AMB treaty withdrawal. 2003 Iraq war under false pretences. Need I go on? All extremely provocative acts by the west. Anybody would think they wanted a war...which of course, they do.

    Skripal is part of the bigger picture. The ongoing war waged by the Anglo American establishment against Russia. Skripal was a spy at the end of the day one of the KGBs own. Spies are murdered all the time. My sympathy is limited.

    You know the Ukraine is a sovereign nation , right ?

    And if they want to join the EU common market just like Poland did then thats their business.

    Its none of Russias business if other countries want to improve their lot and that of their citizens.

    Russian government actually despised the fact Euro 2012 was shared between Poland and Ukraine as it was seen as tightening up the links between the perception of being European inside ukraine.

    Its really really really funny that the likes of yourself seem to think Russia has some form of excuse to railroad itself into Ukraine because it perceives EU expansion into a sovereign nation as bad for itself.

    You are talking out of 2 sides of your mouth and this whole bad versus evil is something you created I only think of countries having the ability to decide their own destiny from within.


    What is your affiliation with Putin because youve done nothing but protect obfuscate and deride any points against him.

    Do you actually really view yourself as impartial :confused::confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    weisses wrote: »
    Engaging in whataboutery is not making your point any clearer

    Dont mix up countries looking for safety because they were sick of communist rule with western expansion.

    Trying to make your point stick by saying that the bad Americans did it as well doesn't stick



    Ohh so now he was poisoned by the anglo American establishment ? ... right

    At least you are not hiding your blind devotion and allegiance

    The fact is we don't know why he was poisoned and don't pretend you do. But we do know he was a dodgy character, a spook and much like a mafioso or Islamic terrorist, fair game for a violent end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    pearcider wrote: »
    The fact is we don't know why he was poisoned and don't pretend you do. But we do know he was a dodgy character, a spook and much like a mafioso or Islamic terrorist, fair game for a violent end.

    I'm not sure many are arguing against that. What makes this different is the indiscriminate nature of the chemical attack. British civilians were victims.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    One more point, it's not whataboutery to show you three major geopolitical decisions made by the west that even the man on the street could see would greatly alienate Russia. NATO expansion, ABM treaty withdrawal, Iraq war which was unprovoked aggression against a sovereign nation. You seem to ignore all this and act like Russia is evil and acting in a vacuum. Wake up.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,761 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    pearcider wrote: »
    The fact is we don't know why he was poisoned and don't pretend you do. But we do know he was a dodgy character, a spook and much like a mafioso or Islamic terrorist, fair game for a violent end.

    As was his daughter then too i assume ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    I'm not sure many are arguing against that. What makes this different is the indiscriminate nature of the chemical attack. British civilians were victims.

    That's unfortunate. The Pentagon or MI6 would refer to that as collateral damage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,761 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    pearcider wrote: »
    That's unfortunate. The Pentagon or MI6 would refer to that as collateral damage.

    Cracking them versus us work your trying to create.

    And the same time pretending to look as if you are being impartial, Absolute quality .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    listermint wrote: »
    As was his daughter then too i assume ?

    She no doubt benefited from his dirty money. If he actually cared about his family, he wouldn't be involved in such dodgy dealings. He'd choose to be a school teacher or a cab driver. It's quite clear he was still involved in the Great Game. My sympathy is limited.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    listermint wrote: »
    Cracking them versus us work your trying to create.

    And the same time pretending to look as if you are being impartial, Absolute quality .

    The truth hurts. I'd rather our betters did not play these political power games but the fact that they do is really not my problem. To suggest that the west has the moral high ground here despite all the evidence to the contrary is a joke though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,761 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    listermint wrote: »
    You know the Ukraine is a sovereign nation , right ?

    And if they want to join the EU common market just like Poland did then thats their business.

    Its none of Russias business if other countries want to improve their lot and that of their citizens.

    Russian government actually despised the fact Euro 2012 was shared between Poland and Ukraine as it was seen as tightening up the links between the perception of being European inside ukraine.

    Its really really really funny that the likes of yourself seem to think Russia has some form of excuse to railroad itself into Ukraine because it perceives EU expansion into a sovereign nation as bad for itself.

    You are talking out of 2 sides of your mouth and this whole bad versus evil is something you created I only think of countries having the ability to decide their own destiny from within.


    What is your affiliation with Putin because youve done nothing but protect obfuscate and deride any points against him.

    Do you actually really view yourself as impartial :confused::confused:

    Can you address this ? or shall you overlook it as Russian expansion is ok against some form of what intercountry expansion?

    Let me guess Ukraine was being manipulated by the EU so that we would give them a better future in return for some evil anti russian EU expansion...


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,761 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    pearcider wrote: »
    The truth hurts. I'd rather our betters did not play these political power games but the fact that they do is really not my problem. To suggest that the west has the moral high ground here despite all the evidence to the contrary is a joke though.

    You are the only one doing that!!

    So please stop.

    not one person has done that except you.

    No one.

    Just you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    pearcider wrote: »
    That's unfortunate. The Pentagon or MI6 would refer to that as collateral damage.

    What? Do you honestly think that the UK shouldn't respond when a foreign state injures its citizens on its own soil? I'm guessing that you don't understand much about the role of states in protecting their citizens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    listermint wrote: »
    You know the Ukraine is a sovereign nation , right ?

    And if they want to join the EU common market just like Poland did then thats their business.

    Its none of Russias business if other countries want to improve their lot and that of their citizens.

    Russian government actually despised the fact Euro 2012 was shared between Poland and Ukraine as it was seen as tightening up the links between the perception of being European inside ukraine.

    Its really really really funny that the likes of yourself seem to think Russia has some form of excuse to railroad itself into Ukraine because it perceives EU expansion into a sovereign nation as bad for itself.

    You are talking out of 2 sides of your mouth and this whole bad versus evil is something you created I only think of countries having the ability to decide their own destiny from within.


    What is your affiliation with Putin because youve done nothing but protect obfuscate and deride any points against him.

    Do you actually really view yourself as impartial :confused::confused:

    Where did I mention Ukraine? I'm talking about the other three provocations instigated by the US at the turn of the century when Putin took power. Didn't mention Ukraine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    What? Do you honestly think that the UK shouldn't respond when a foreign state injures its citizens on its own soil? I'm guessing that you don't understand much about the role of states in protecting their citizens.

    Has the U.K. proof it was a foreign state? Or may whitehall be manipulating this situation for its own ends? The U.K. can do whatever it likes as long as they leave the EU out of it. I'd prefer they didn't start yet another world war with their unparalleled arrogance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,761 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    pearcider wrote: »
    Where did I mention Ukraine? I'm talking about the other three provocations instigated by the US at the turn of the century when Putin took power. Didn't mention Ukraine.

    I asked you about Ukraine.

    Please give detailed thoughts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    pearcider wrote: »
    Has the U.K. proof it was a foreign state? Or may whitehall be manipulating this situation for its own ends? The U.K. can do whatever it likes as long as they leave the EU out of it. I'd prefer they didn't start yet another world war with their unparalleled arrogance.

    Dirty tricks is the domain of the British, Americans and Russians and others. It is most unfortunate when innocent people are affected. The British are annoyed because the poison attack is on their turf. A disgusting business no matter who is to blame...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭weisses


    pearcider wrote: »
    The fact is we don't know why he was poisoned and don't pretend you do. But we do know he was a dodgy character, a spook and much like a mafioso or Islamic terrorist, fair game for a violent end.

    So you are comparing spies (counter intelligence officials) with Mafia and Islamic terrorism now ??? ..... The mind boggles

    I dont pretend anything, You brought up the Anglo American establishment connection .... So I leave the pretense with you if you dont mind


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭weisses


    pearcider wrote: »
    One more point, it's not whataboutery to show you three major geopolitical decisions made by the west that even the man on the street could see would greatly alienate Russia. NATO expansion, ABM treaty withdrawal, Iraq war which was unprovoked aggression against a sovereign nation. You seem to ignore all this and act like Russia is evil and acting in a vacuum. Wake up.

    How did the Iraq war alienated Russia ?

    NATO expansion ... these decisions were made by elected governments from the countries involved ... And seeing Russia behave now ..Rightly so

    ABM treaty ??? Russia is doing well according to the Kremlin with their new Hypersonic Kinzhal Missile ...... those poor alienated Russians


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 417 ✭✭Mancomb Seepgood


    pearcider wrote: »
    The fact is we don't know why he was poisoned and don't pretend you do. But we do know he was a dodgy character, a spook and much like a mafioso or Islamic terrorist, fair game for a violent end.

    I don't know exactly why he was poisoned.I would hope,though,that most people wouldn't consider the use of an extremely dangerous nerve agent against a person to be acceptable under any circumstances.

    If the Russian state is behind it,then it's reaponsible for an incredibly dangerous and reckless act that could have untold consequences.If it isn't responsible,then as the country who originally produced this agent no doubt they can offer a lot of help to the investigation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭UsedToWait


    Another dead Russian

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43433552

    You can't spell impunity without p u t i n


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    weisses wrote: »
    How did the Iraq war alienated Russia ?

    NATO expansion ... these decisions were made by elected governments from the countries involved ... And seeing Russia behave now ..Rightly so

    ABM treaty ??? Russia is doing well according to the Kremlin with their new Hypersonic Kinzhal Missile ...... those poor alienated Russians

    The Iraq war alienated everyone even the French! You need to go back and read your history. The Russians along with most rational observers were totally against it. They knew it would end in disaster and a more destabilized Middle East. You just have to look back to the UN Security Council discussions at the time. At the end of the day the US and its arrogant lapdog flagrantly violated international law. At this moment, the Russians realized the Anglo American establishment would stop at nothing to subjugate the world including themselves. Can you honestly blame the Russians for their actions since? If the west was serious about peace, NATO would have been dissolved in 1999 not expanded. At that moment I believe, the world was set on track for nuclear holocaust. I also believe that was set in train by the policy makers in the US/UK on purpose because surely no political actor could be so recklessly stupid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    The iraq war thread is over there -> about 15 years ago.

    Now, something happened a few days ago where innocent people were attacked by a foreign nation and this is a thread about it.

    And yet, here you are. Desperately playing dodgeball,


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,607 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    pearcider wrote: »
    The Iraq war alienated everyone even the French! You need to go back and read your history. The Russians along with most rational observers were totally against it. They knew it would end in disaster and a more destabilized Middle East. You just have to look back to the UN Security Council discussions at the time. At the end of the day the US and its arrogant lapdog flagrantly violated international law. At this moment, the Russians realized the Anglo American establishment would stop at nothing to subjugate the world including themselves. Can you honestly blame the Russians for their actions since? If the west was serious about peace, NATO would have been dissolved in 1999 not expanded. At that moment I believe, the world was set on track for nuclear holocaust. I also believe that was set in train by the policy makers in the US/UK on purpose because surely no political actor could be so recklessly stupid.

    Mod: Stay on topic please. This thread is about a specific incident in Salisbury.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭weisses


    The iraq war thread is over there -> about 15 years ago.

    Now, something happened a few days ago where innocent people were attacked by a foreign nation and this is a thread about it.

    And yet, here you are. Desperately playing dodgeball,

    Well to be fair ..Russia got accused of the attack. Time will tell


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