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Issue with 2nd hand car from SIMI garage

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  • 10-03-2018 1:57pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 13


    Hi all,

    I purchased a 2011 car from a main dealership and I was given a 3 month warranty for engine and gearbox. After 3 weeks I contacted the dealer as I found the car could often be difficulty to start and upon looking under the hood with a torch I found a pipe was broken. Due to Storm Emma the car took 1 week to be inspected and I was told that the air con pipe was broken and I would need to pay for the repairs. I was also given no information regarding issues with the car starting.
    I was fairly taken back - I'm aware that a warranty is in addition to my consumer rights so I argued that the car was not of merchantable quality when purchased.
    Has anyone had this experience? I've contacted citizens info and they were suggesting that my rights were violated and I lodged a complaint with SIMI but I'd love to know if anyone has experienced this before?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,218 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    What has SIMI got to do with it? It's an organisation for garage owners, not for customers.
    Not sure how an Air Con pipe would affect starting.

    Go back and ask politely for your car to be fixed.
    If you get the run-around, kick up a stink.
    Preferably while other customers are around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Some items are consumables, like tyres, bulbs, etc
    A broken pipe isn't a consumable.
    The seller should rectify the pipe with no cost to you.

    Keep at them for the pipe, and the starting issue

    I am surprised a main dealer would try to fob you off on something small like that.
    Who is it? Maybe they been mentioned before.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Goldengirl120


    Thanks for your input! SIMI deal with customer complaints, the garage I purchased the car from are registered with them so they basically act as an intermediary to rectify the problem.
    I've literally been on the phone to them all week going between the sales office and the service department and I pretty much got the same scéal about them only repairing what my warranty covers.
    When I mentioned that I would be making a complaint I was laughed at and told that it can be a long process and that they've 'seen this before', regarding me talking about my consumer rights :/


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Goldengirl120


    biko wrote: »
    Some items are consumables, like tyres, bulbs, etc
    A broken pipe isn't a consumable.
    The seller should rectify the pipe with no cost to you.

    Keep at them for the pipe, and the starting issue

    I am surprised a main dealer would try to fob you off on something small like that.
    Who is it? Maybe they been mentioned before.

    I was equally surprised! I agreed that if it had happened much further down the line then I would have accepted liability but 3 weeks is a joke! Its a main garage in Galway - I'll not mention the name until my complaint has been processed. Would you have any notion of my rights? It feels a bit daunting trying to stand up for myself when I have no background in anything car related! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    We cannot give legal advice here, and you have already approached Citizen Info.
    Do share name when process is finished.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,988 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Under consumer law there are 3 options for you and the retailer to work with repair, replace or refund. As you have only brought this to the garage the 1st option is repair, this has to be permanent but with cars getting the issue can be difficult. If they can't repair it then you come to replace or repair.

    As for the garage saying that they will only fix the warranty issues, remind them that the warranty is in addition to your consumer rights and they have to fix the issue with the car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭mullingar


    +1, try the Citizens Advice Bureau.

    But re SIMI, they are not an official intermediary, they are a political lobby group for the motoring industry and are biased to their paying members - the garages.

    The CAB may even suggest going he small claims route as you are covered under the Sale of goods act as it covers all goods sold to the public by a trader, including second hand cars, but with a 7 year old car it could easily be argued that the part that failed might reasonably be expected to fail (especially VAG stuff :pac:)

    Another thing, you said main dealer. Is this a fully franchised dealer such as Ford/VW/Kia etc that sells both new & used cars? Or just a large independent second hand only dealer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    When I mentioned that I would be making a complaint I was laughed at and told that it can be a long process and that they've 'seen this before', regarding me talking about my consumer rights :/

    They are right though. Make a complaint to who? No garage gives a toss about SIMI or what SIMI says, you might as well be complaining to Joe Duffy.

    I would also note that an air con pipe would indeed not be covered under any driveline warranty by any manufacturer. You need to find out what the real cause of the starting issue is before you go looking for a solution.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    They should be fixing the Aircon pipe. That's just petty by them. Your warranty only covers engine and gearbox but as others have said, the warranty is in addition to your rights. All the basic mechanics of the car would be expected to be functional upon purchase, so if they're not they should be putting them right under sale of goods act. You don't need to go near warranty for that.
    As for the engine difficulty, realistically as they're not interested you'd need to have the problem diagnosed by an independent garage at your own expense. If that person can verify a fault and that it almost certainly pre existed your purchase then you could return to the dealer and insist on them fixing it.
    Of course, if the dealer won't play ball they can only be forced to through the legal process which is long and hard.
    I had a vaguely similar experience late last year which I posted about. I eventually went to the dealer office and sat in it, refusing to leave, until they relented.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Yeah, the air con pipe isn't stopping the car from starting. It doesn't have to be repaired by the garage either though m. They gave a 3 month engine and gearbox warranty which the pipe doesn't fall under and consumer rights says the car must be fit for purpose and a split air con pipe does not make it unfit for purpose. I'd probably let that whole line of investigation/ repair go.

    The non start issue should be covered by both the warranty and consumer rights so you need to be strict with the garage and tell them you are not interested in anything else bar wanting the non start issue rectified.

    I'd agree with others that SIMI are unlikely to get you much joy here. Sure they'll act as an intermediary but they are funded by the garage so the have a certain element of bias.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Goldengirl120


    Thanks for your feedback everyone - the plot thickens with this situation! I collected my car on the 12th after contacting SIMI - all of our documents including my receipt and warranty had been in the car while I had left it in with the garage to review, so when they told me that my warranty only covered engine and gearbox, I hadn't even questioned it. Low and behold when I went through the paperwork after collecting the car I found that I had been given a much more comprehensive warranty! I contacted the sales manager on Friday, of course I got no call back so I called again today and she states that shes looking at the warranty that the sales man had given me and that it clearly states engine and gearbox only - I ask her to forward a copy and when i received it I was shocked to find that he has forged my signature and initials! He's also put in the incorrect date of sale, there's no mileage info!
    I'm beyond mystified by the whole scenario - I'll be looking to speak with the branch manager tomorrow to sort this mess out!
    Fingers crossed - thanks again for all of your input!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,099 ✭✭✭Mech1


    phone the warranty company if you really want to give the garage trouble.

    it seems its cheaper to move you to a different policy and claim off of that than fix your car.

    the warranty company aint going to like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,356 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Do you have the original of the more comprehensive warranty?
    I don't grasp exactly what you say re forging?
    Have they forged docs to show you have a more basic warranty or a better warranty than to you really got at time of purchase?


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Forging a signature? Wow, this sounds serious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Goldengirl120


    biko wrote: »
    Some items are consumables, like tyres, bulbs, etc
    A broken pipe isn't a consumable.
    The seller should rectify the pipe with no cost to you.

    Keep at them for the pipe, and the starting issue

    I am surprised a main dealer would try to fob you off on something small like that.
    Who is it? Maybe they been mentioned before.
    mickdw wrote: »
    Do you have the original of the more comprehensive warranty?
    I don't grasp exactly what you say re forging?
    Have they forged docs to show you have a more basic warranty or a better warranty than to you really got at time of purchase?

    The salesman signed my name on a warranty that only had engine and parts covered - I have the original copy, thankfully, that includes a much more detailed list of parts and labour. Absolutely flabbergasted!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,218 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    YOU are in a very strong position, all of a sudden!

    Whatever you do, don't let that bit of paper out of your hands.!

    Bring a photocopy to the meeting, and it would be no harm to say something like " My solicitor has had sight of this document" if they try to bullshyt you any more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Mech1 wrote: »
    phone the warranty company if you really want to give the garage trouble.

    it seems its cheaper to move you to a different policy and claim off of that than fix your car.

    the warranty company aint going to like that.

    The warranty garage are customers of the warranty company so they will go along with whatever the garage want.

    Either way there's no mention of a warranty company here unless I've missed it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭jimmy180sx


    Id like to know the name of this garage once resolved so i can steer clear of them in the future along with friends and family...forging signitures is amazing


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,732 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    jimmy180sx wrote: »
    Id like to know the name of this garage once resolved so i can steer clear of them in the future along with friends and family...forging signitures is amazing
    Just to be clear: the garage didn't forge the OPs signature, one employee did.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭kindalen


    What a turn of events. Please keep us updated.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭jimmy180sx


    kbannon wrote:
    Just to be clear: the garage didn't forge the OPs signature, one employee did.

    In my eyes the garage has acted frauduantly...the employee is a representative of the garage


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,356 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    What a shower of chancers.
    That is unbelievable crap re warranty.
    Hard to fathom but may be a case of them selling an additional other party warranty at time of sale and perhaps not paying the warranty company at all hence the need to fraudulently try to get out of that extra warranty.
    Keep that document - Does it have sufficient detail to prove you have a valid warranty - signed by whoever sold it to you?
    If you have all your ducks in a row, I'd let them hang themselves with their special line of bull**** first by email if at all possible and then nail them.
    Simi are not your friend. Place no confidence in them to look after your interests. You don't pay them, the garage does so reporting to Simi is not worth while.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    kbannon wrote: »
    Just to be clear: the garage didn't forge the OPs signature, one employee did.

    Whether or not that is an important distinction will depend on how the management of the garage treat the OP when she presents the evidence of their employee's fraud.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Goldengirl120


    Received no call this morning so I contacted the receptionist in the afternoon and asked to arrange a meeting with the branch manager - an hour or so later I received an email followed by a phone call from the service department claiming that they'll repair the pipe. The email stated 'as you have that document from the salesperson, I will have to honour the warranty you were given on your records'.
    There was no iota of an apology or even an acknowledgement of the salesman falsifying the warranty. I told them I'd need to get back to them tomorrow :/ Still exceptionally pissed off! Also, still no word from SIMI !


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,732 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There was no iota of an apology or even an acknowledgement of the salesman falsifying the warranty. I told them I'd need to get back to them tomorrow :/ Still exceptionally pissed off! Also, still no word from SIMI !
    The lack of apology from them is poor and I'd keep pushing it.
    As for SIMI, I wouldn't expect anything from them seeing as how they don't represent you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    They won't apologise because they feel to do so would be an admission of fraud and they don't want to admit to fraud. The "honour the warranty you were given" statement is probably about as much as you'll get.

    I think I'd push the not starting issue whilst leaving the fraud looming in the background!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Goldengirl120


    Had a meeting with a manager today - along with two colleagues of mine who are much more knowledgeable than me about cars!
    They stated that the salesman, who is also the manager of the used cars department, had 'misplaced' my original warranty and decided to create a new one although he couldn't remember what warranty he had given me so he just guessed (A guess that put me in a worse off position, of course)! He also thought it would be ok to sign said warranty on my behalf!
    So, we're near the end of the saga it seems - we've narrowed it down to three options:
    1. Full refund plus compensation for being unable to use the car since March 12th, after returning the replacement car.
    2. They offered to give me a different car of a higher value
    3. Legal route
    We're meeting again on Tuesday - they seem most keen to give me a different car with a 12 month warranty.
    We'll have to see how it all plays out - They definitely thought that as a 20 something year old woman that I'd back down and pay them for the repairs! I'd love to know how many people have been screwed by them over the years! Hopefully they can redeem themselves next week!
    Thanks again for all of ye're input!


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,239 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    I'd take option 1 and get as far away from them as possible.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,092 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    bazz26 wrote: »
    I'd take option 1 and get as far away from them as possible.

    This. And move on fast.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,479 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    So, we're near the end of the saga it seems - we've narrowed it down to three options:
    1. Full refund plus compensation for being unable to use the car since March 12th, after returning the replacement car.
    2. They offered to give me a different car of a higher value
    3. Legal route

    That isn't a choice at all. Is that what they have actually offered or is that what you feel your demands/options are?


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