Is conservatism the new counter-culture?

ameirecan

Many years ago, rebellious students campaigned and fought for far-left ideas like gay rights, legalization of contraception, veganism and the socialist utopia. These days being pro-immigration, pro-gay rights and anti-religion is the epitome of the establishment. These are the safe, mainstream ideas that are celebrated daily in our media. Our Taoiseach is an openly homosexual son of an Indian immigrant.

These days the rebels are the lads who go to mass every Sunday and take pride in their country’s past and traditions. They want to keep Ireland for the Irish and many even make the effort to include a cúpla focail in their daily conversations. Instead of indulging in hedonistic binge drinking and casual sex antics at the weekend, they stay in and study the writings of Pearse. Witholding sex until after marriage is the radical thing to do these days.

irishguitarlad

ameirecan wrote: »

Many years ago, rebellious students campaigned and fought for far-left ideas like gay rights, legalization of contraception, veganism and the socialist utopia. These days being pro-immigration, pro-gay rights and anti-religion is the epitome of the establishment. These are the safe, mainstream ideas that are celebrated daily in our media. Our Taoiseach is an openly homosexual son of an Indian immigrant.

These days the rebels are the lads who go to mass every Sunday and take pride in their country’s past and traditions. They want to keep Ireland for the Irish and many even make the effort to include a cúpla focail in their daily conversations. Instead of indulging in hedonistic binge drinking and casual sex antics at the weekend, they stay in and study the writings of Pearse. Witholding sex until after marriage is the radical thing to do these days.

Doing drugs at this hour of the morning.

Pepefrogok

ameirecan wrote: »

Many years ago, rebellious students campaigned and fought for far-left ideas like gay rights, legalization of contraception, veganism and the socialist utopia. These days being pro-immigration, pro-gay rights and anti-religion is the epitome of the establishment. These are the safe, mainstream ideas that are celebrated daily in our media. Our Taoiseach is an openly homosexual son of an Indian immigrant.

These days the rebels are the lads who go to mass every Sunday and take pride in their country’s past and traditions. They want to keep Ireland for the Irish and many even make the effort to include a cúpla focail in their daily conversations. Instead of indulging in hedonistic binge drinking and casual sex antics at the weekend, they stay in and study the writings of Pearse. Witholding sex until after marriage is the radical thing to do these days.

There my be a part of that to it but I believe a lot of the youth are coming round to more conservative/right wing views because they are now actually seeing what side of the argument has been constantly correct and what side offers them a better future.

Wanderer78

Pepefrogok wrote:

There my be a part of that to it but I believe a lot of the youth are coming round to more conservative/right wing views because they are now actually seeing what side of the argument has been constantly correct and what side offers them a better future.

And what would this better future be?

One eyed Jack

"Conservativism the new counter-culture" doesn't make much sense tbh.

No, would be my answer to the question I think you're asking. Conservatives are as they always were - conservative. Nowadays there appears to be somewhat of a schism between people who traditionally considered themselves liberal, and the newer type of liberal who considers themselves progressive, whereas traditional liberals appear to decry their ideas as regressive.

professore

Yes. For sure. I've seen this transition. I was in college where some of my friends protested installing condom machines in the toilets - I kid you not.

When my daughter said she thinks that immigration should be limited and controlled, one of her "friends" screamed "you are a murderer" at her repeatedly. And my daughter isn't conservative or liberal, she thinks for herself.

She says they just parrot these ideas as black and white facts and they are not open to discussion. To me this is the biggest problem. In the West this was traditionally a more conservative stance - you believe it "because I said so".

If someone stands up in front of admiring followers and tells you what they believe and won't allow any questions then I'm out. If your ideas are so great you should be able to stand up and robustly defend it. If you don't want to "engage" then what you have is an ideology or a religion - not a reasoned opinion. For example Katie Hopkins in the UK, Ben Shapiro and Milo Yiannopolous in the US debate from one end of the day until the other. Liberals on the other hand, come on chat shows, are asked sympathetic questions, and parrot the party line to canned applause. No criticism or questioning is permitted.

And Pearse ... I wouldn't be mad about him personally.

ameirecan

Pearse was ahead of his time. "An Ireland not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well." I wonder what he'd make of modern multicultural Ireland that sends boats out to the Mediterranean to ferry illegals to Europe....that imposes over 100 asylum seekers on a small village like Lisdoonvarna. Our leaders have betrayed the ideals fought for by our patriot dead.

The other major powers in the world, China and Russia, don't appease this sick liberal ideology. Hence they are growing stronger while the West rots from the inside. Just some observations on the world. Please don't silence me.

The Backwards Man

Someone has Google translated the buck in Health Sciences, I see

Wanderer78

ameirecan wrote:

Pearse was ahead of his time. "An Ireland not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well." I wonder what he'd make of modern multicultural Ireland that sends boats out to the Mediterranean to ferry illegals to Europe....that imposes over 100 asylum seekers on a small village like Lisdoonvarna. Our leaders have betrayed the ideals fought for by our patriot dead.

There's no such thing as freedom on this planet, each person and society is confined by certain parameters, some of these parameters are controlled by individuals, groups, institutions etc etc.

splinter65

Wanderer78 wrote: »

And what would this better future be?

At one stage we were on a dangerous toad to socialism but we’re off it now.
We still are too bogged down in left wing rubbish but as the other poster said, Irish people are too smart to swallow all that crap and I’m confident we will get back.
I was heartened by the reaction to the looting at Lidl incident.

One eyed Jack

ameirecan wrote: »

Pearse was ahead of his time. "An Ireland not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well." I wonder what he'd make of modern multicultural Ireland that sends boats out to the Mediterranean to ferry illegals to Europe....that imposes over 100 asylum seekers on a small village like Lisdoonvarna. Our leaders have betrayed the ideals fought for by our patriot dead.

The other major powers in the world, China and Russia, don't appease this sick liberal ideology. Hence they are growing stronger while the West rots from the inside. Just some observations on the world. Please don't silence me.

Well that escalated quickly! :pac:

I'm with prof on this one, Pearse never did much for me either, but at least he wasn't as miserable as Kavanagh. Now there was a disillusioned and bitter man, way ahead of his time...

Or is it more the case that bitter and disillusioned people have always existed in society since the dawn of civilisation?

Hmm...

Wanderer78

phoney_curtis wrote:

the mods slap bans exclusively on those with conservative views

I've very few if any conservative views, and I've been close to being banned from boards!

professore

ameirecan wrote: »

Pearse was ahead of his time. "An Ireland not free merely, but Gaelic as well; not Gaelic merely, but free as well." I wonder what he'd make of modern multicultural Ireland that sends boats out to the Mediterranean to ferry illegals to Europe....that imposes over 100 asylum seekers on a small village like Lisdoonvarna. Our leaders have betrayed the ideals fought for by our patriot dead.

The other major powers in the world, China and Russia, don't appease this sick liberal ideology. Hence they are growing stronger while the West rots from the inside. Just some observations on the world. Please don't silence me.

Ireland takes in basically no refugees. 760 in 2017 : https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/total-of-760-refugees-arrived-in-state-last-year-1.2928240

As for asylum seekers:
Applicants in 2016 : 2,245
Pending applications in 2016: 4,055

http://www.asylumineurope.org/reports/country/republic-ireland/statistics

So we are far from an immigrant crisis like Germany or Sweden. Should we keep it that way? In my opinion, absolutely.

I agree putting 100 of them in Lisdoonvarna is an incredibly stupid idea.

splinter65

professore wrote: »

Yes. For sure. I've seen this transition. I was in college where some of my friends protested installing condom machines in the toilets - I kid you not.

When my daughter said she thinks that immigration should be limited and controlled, one of her "friends" screamed "you are a murderer" at her repeatedly. And my daughter isn't conservative or liberal, she thinks for herself.

She says they just parrot these ideas as black and white facts and they are not open to discussion. To me this is the biggest problem. In the West this was traditionally a more conservative stance - you believe it "because I said so".

If someone stands up in front of admiring followers and tells you what they believe and won't allow any questions then I'm out. If your ideas are so great you should be able to stand up and robustly defend it. If you don't want to "engage" then what you have is an ideology or a religion - not a reasoned opinion. For example Katie Hopkins in the UK, Ben Shapiro and Milo Yiannopolous in the US debate from one end of the day until the other. Liberals on the other hand, come on chat shows, are asked sympathetic questions, and parrot the party line to canned applause. No criticism or questioning is permitted.

And Pearse ... I wouldn't be mad about him personally.

Be Shapiro fears no one. Hours of entertainment from him on YouTube debating liberals who can’t even stay the course for 5 minutes.

Wanderer78

splinter65 wrote:

At one stage we were on a dangerous toad to socialism but we’re off it now. We still are too bogged down in left wing rubbish but as the other poster said, Irish people are too smart to swallow all that crap and I’m confident we will get back. I was heartened by the reaction to the looting at Lidl incident.

I'm proudly a lefty, the looting of Lidl was disgraceful but it could be a sign of growing complex social issues within our society

Bob_Marley

It's not as binary as conservative - liberal

Economically the west is being pushed by it's leaders further and further to the extreme right.
Socially it's being pushed further and further towards the extreme left.

Christianity is a very substantial threat as it is economically to the left, and socially to the right, and has been successfully sidelined to only true believers/rebels.

Islam is not seen as a credible threat, as it is too extreme and easily dismissed. (in the mind of European politicians)

Europe's moguls need labour to become as cheap as possible, house ownership to become as difficult as possible, and to have society as divided as possible so everyone can be more easily controlled. Even those of different gender need to be pitched against one another over toilets. Everything must be politicised.

professore

splinter65 wrote: »

At one stage we were on a dangerous toad to socialism but we’re off it now.
We still are too bogged down in left wing rubbish but as the other poster said, Irish people are too smart to swallow all that crap and I’m confident we will get back.
I was heartened by the reaction to the looting at Lidl incident.

The Irish have a lot of cop on. When a highly educated German, in the middle of an otherwise very interesting discussion, out of the blue apologised to me for the war and Hitler in a bar in Barcelona one night, I saw right there that one size most definitely does not fit all for Europe. We are seeing the same crap in America with "cis white men" apoligising for the sins of their forefathers. I thought we threw original sin out with the stranglehold of the Catholic church. What nonsense.

professore

Bob_Marley wrote: »

It's not as binary as conservative - liberal

Economically the west is being pushed by it's leaders further and further to the extreme right.
Socially it's being pushed further and further towards the extreme left.

True in the US but Europe is extreme left both politically and socially.

lawred2

Pepefrogok wrote: »

There my be a part of that to it but I believe a lot of the youth are coming round to more conservative/right wing views because they are now actually seeing what side of the argument has been constantly correct and what side offers them a better future.

:rolleyes:

lawred2

splinter65 wrote: »

At one stage we were on a dangerous toad to socialism but we’re off it now.
We still are too bogged down in left wing rubbish but as the other poster said, Irish people are too smart to swallow all that crap and I’m confident we will get back.
I was heartened by the reaction to the looting at Lidl incident.

fecken socialist toads

professore

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Islam is not seen as a credible threat, as it is too extreme and easily dismissed. (in the mind of European politicians)

Exactly what they said about the Nazis ... even after they were democratically elected and by far and away the largest party in the Reichstag. After they annexed Austria and the Sudetenland. Even after they invaded Poland. Islam, or at least the way it is practiced, is a threat to Western civilization.

splinter65

lawred2 wrote: »

fecken socialist toads

You’ve replied to 2 seperate posts using 3 words and an emoji and no opinion of your own.
I don’t think you can mock anyone else’s spelling.

Bob_Marley

professore wrote: »

True in the US but Europe is extreme left both politically and socially.

You must be joking, the massive bank and bondholder bailouts prove otherwise, saddling the debts onto ordinary taxpayers instead for generations.
Unless you think the current policy of nationalising any and all billionaires private speculation depts, and next to zero taxation on their profits is left wing.

Bob_Marley

splinter65 wrote: »

Irish people are too smart to swallow all that crap

Rubbish, Irish people swallow whatever the Irish media tell them to.

splinter65

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Rubbish, Irish people swallow whatever the Irish media tell them to.

We’ll see...

Bob_Marley

splinter65 wrote: »

We’ll see...

We see it all the time

Captain Obvious

Conservatism is simply a resistance to change. Like the people who locked scientists up for saying the earth was round, who burnt witches at the stake or who fought for slavery. They're scared of change because they don't understand it and don't know what it will bring so they attack it.

lawred2

splinter65 wrote: »

You’ve replied to 2 seperate posts using 3 words and an emoji and no opinion of your own.
I don’t think you can mock anyone else’s spelling.

The first one was some lad presenting his musings as fact and some belief that the 'side' that he happens to agree with has been constantly correct. On what this 'side' has been constantly correct on is entirely unclear. It's also entirely unclear what a better future means in this entirely context free one liner.

Not sure what level of detail you expect in response.

Maybe you can fill in the gaps.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I was a real lib socialist type in my college years. Age, experience and my father turned me. Lol

I'd still consider myself an old school classical liberal, somewhat like Dave Rubin or Douglas Muarry.


I despise regressive leftism and the pseudo science and intelectulism that goes with it.


I watch talks online from the likes of Ben Shapiro and Milo and I find myself agreeing with a lot of what they say.


They're both indepently wealthy and can speak out without being abused shamed or hounded from their jobs. A voice for the silent afraid majority maybe.

lawred2

splinter65 wrote: »

At one stage we were on a dangerous toad to socialism but we’re off it now.
We still are too bogged down in left wing rubbish but as the other poster said, Irish people are too smart to swallow all that crap and I’m confident we will get back.
I was heartened by the reaction to the looting at Lidl incident.

What were you expecting from the 'left' in response to that episode of outrageous criminality? Is the left supposed to be pro crime or something?

Who or what is the left in your head?

DanMurphy

Wanderer78 wrote: »

There's no such thing as freedom on this planet, each person and society is confined by certain parameters, some of these parameters are controlled by individuals, groups, institutions etc etc.

I worked in a Prison for eight years.
One evening at the end of my shift a prisoner said, ' Well for you Dan, off to the outside world.'

I said, 'Buddy, all of us are in a Prison of sorts, just some of our cells are a bit bigger than yours.'