Is it possible to actually buy a new EV in Ireland!!??

jusmeig

I have been eagerly watching the latest generation of EVs emerge in various glitzy launch events. Like many people I placed a reservation on a Model 3, as I saw it as the first EV that was within my price range, that did not look like a shopping trolley.

I have pretty much shelved my Model 3 pipe dream, as Tesla seem completely incapable of manufacturing the car at scale. Also being right hand drive we are at the bottom of the food chain for Tesla The first M3 seem to have build quality issues, and I cannot really afford to be a BETA tester/early adopter.
Cannot buy an affordable Tesla

So I looked to the Ioniq. I managed to do a test drive with a garage in Deansgrange, but the salesman told me buying an Ioniq ev would be about as good for the environment as driving a "V8 Petrol BMW". He also told me that they don't expect any new inventory in 2018 and I would be waiting till 2019 to get an EV in a chosen colour!!
Cannot buy an Ioniq

I then moved to Nissan as my savior and the new Leaf launch! The car looks much nicer and less shopping trolley like, so I decided to reserve one of them. Having talked to a salesman in the local garage he was telling me that they expect to get just 300 cars for the WHOLE OF IRELAND in 2018!!!! Again he said 2019 for a car in your chosen colour.
Cannot buy the new Leaf

So I looked into the Zoe and it's too small for my bits and pieces, so I ruled that out. Kind of head scratching at the moment. It's very rare where you have a situation where the government are heavily promoting EVs...and I am not able to get one!?! (New)

Clearly Hyundai see Ioniq as a compliance car with the volume they make, but I thought Nissan could meet demand?

Think ill buy a V8 BMW.....

Shefwedfan

What about the eGolf? they have a lovely one arriving in Cork at the moment. Also a white one in stock in VW Liffey Valley.

The Tesla is a pipedream to be honest. Come back in 3-4 years and they will be hitting the streets in large numbers.

The Kona will be available towards the end of the year. That is from Hyundai.

BMW i3/i3 REX will be available.

If you are ordering a specific spec on any car the wait till is long. This is nothing new. Most of the electric cars are brand new version and they always have a longer lead time to a model that is a year or 2 in the market place. Same as petrol/diesel. I know when the Sportage/Tucson or any of them came out it was the same stuff at dealers. Come back in 12 months. Try buying a Kodiaq off Skoda and see how you get on......

I think you talked to an idiot in Hyundai. Don't mind his bulls**t as he was probably trying to sell you a diesel/petrol he had in stock. I know on facebook at least one guy is getting his in very quickly. So they are available. Ring around the garages

Again the Nissan dealer I would doubt, what color are you looking for? ring around and ask and I am sure someone would take your money off you.....

The Tesla 3 is not cheap and is not in the same budget as Leaf/Ioniq. What sort of budget you looking at?

Mick ah

A friend of mine is getting an ioniq. Placed deposit last month and will be getting it this month.

So they're absolutely not impossible to get. Just ring a couple of places and see who will get one for you.

80sDiesel

Mick ah wrote: »

A friend of mine is getting an ioniq. Placed deposit last month and will be getting it this month.

So they're absolutely not impossible to get. Just ring a couple of places and see who will get one for you.

I know of another one who ordered one this year and is picking up next month too.

micherly

I ordered an eGolf Christmas week and had it first week of February - maybe I was lucky but it sounds like they have a good stock here in Cork. If you have a VW Group car to scrap like I did - you can get the 5000 euro eco-grant scrappage which makes it similar price as the new Nissan Leaf which has similar range and a not as nice interior.

thierry14

micherly wrote: »

I ordered an eGolf Christmas week and had it first week of February - maybe I was lucky but it sounds like they have a good stock here in Cork. If you have a VW Group car to scrap like I did - you can get the 5000 euro eco-grant scrappage which makes it similar price as the new Nissan Leaf which has similar range and a not as nice interior.

What deal did you get if you don't mind me asking?

unkel

There's a few Ioniq demonstrators for sale. Just ring all Hyundai dealers in Ireland. This one (181D) seems to be the cheapest at €30k

Linky


And a second hand 171 one for €27k

Linky


Both white though...

KCross

jusmeig wrote: »

I then moved to Nissan as my savior and the new Leaf launch! The car looks much nicer and less shopping trolley like, so I decided to reserve one of them. Having talked to a salesman in the local garage he was telling me that they expect to get just 300 cars for the WHOLE OF IRELAND in 2018!!!! Again he said 2019 for a car in your chosen colour.
Cannot buy the new Leaf

That sounds like BS to me from the salesman. Did he then show you a diesel car instead?!

Maybe he was referring to the launch model, called the 2.zero, which will have limited supply. The plant in Sunderland is only making 1500 of those I think and 300 sounds about right for Ireland in that case.

You should be able to order other models shortly though. Try some other dealers and see what they say.... preferably a dealer that has the ability to service a Leaf as they will be interested in EV... other dealers might not as its in their best interest to sell you a petrol/diesel to keep their service department going.

jusmeig

Mick ah wrote: »

A friend of mine is getting an ioniq. Placed deposit last month and will be getting it this month.

So they're absolutely not impossible to get. Just ring a couple of places and see who will get one for you.

Is this inventory or a custom order? Yer man did say there was a white one knocking about the place, but I dont want a white car hence him saying i'd be waiting "years"

jusmeig

KCross wrote: »

That sounds like BS to me from the salesman. Did he then show you a diesel car instead?!

He said:

"Nissan Ireland told us yesterday on the our training course that our allocation of 300 Leaf’s is due to the factory only staring production of the car in April and due to the high volume of sales expected in Europe this is all that Nissan Sunderland can allocate at this time."

he did say I could order a leaf and possibly get it mid summer...so now im confused I asked for a test drive, as i'd not buy a car without a test drive!!

jusmeig

unkel wrote: »

There's a few Ioniq demonstrators for sale. Just ring all Hyundai dealers in Ireland. This one (181D) seems to be the cheapest at €30k

Linky


And a second hand 171 one for €27k

Linky


Both white though...

Ya...I should have put this in my original rant, wife wont drive a white car. That whole white car on Irish roads thing (even tho they get no dirtier etc). But im not mad on white either tho.

jusmeig

micherly wrote: »

I ordered an eGolf Christmas week and had it first week of February - maybe I was lucky but it sounds like they have a good stock here in Cork. If you have a VW Group car to scrap like I did - you can get the 5000 euro eco-grant scrappage which makes it similar price as the new Nissan Leaf which has similar range and a not as nice interior.

Never considered it. Is it available/test-drive-able?
Need a decent sized booth.

jusmeig

Update on Leaf:

Should have a test car end of March/Early April.
Car can be ordered, not sure when it will be delivered.

KCross - U may be right about the 300 being the 2.zero, sounds more plausible than 300 for the entire country.

Shefwedfan

jusmeig wrote: »

Never considered it. Is it available/test-drive-able?
Need a decent sized booth.

Booth is bigger than Leaf.....I find it decent anyway

Liffey Valley have a white one in stock, some others coming in

Blackwater motors have a grey one coming in which is nice spec

cros13

Yup the 300 cars refers to our allocation of the "Launch Edition" of the Leaf.
General production Leafs will be delivered from Late May/Early June.

Ioniq inventory for the coming year is a problem. The last I heard was that Hyundai Ireland had failed to get a production allocation and removed it from the dealer price lists. Some dealers are selling/trading the Demo inventory or cars sourced from dealers in the UK.

Kona, unknown what kind of allocation Hyundai Ireland got. The Kona Electric being heavily advertised by Hyundai UK on their front page and not mentioned at all on hyundai.ie has me worried.

Model 3, If you didn't have your money down last year you won't see one before late 2020/early 2021.

eGolf, great car if you can get past the salespeople in the dealers and the price (which is higher than an i3.... which is still the better driving car).

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

eGolf, great car if you can get past the salespeople in the dealers and the price (which is higher than an i3

Is it though? I believe with diesel scrappage the price is getting close enough to €30k? I wonder will the other poster who just bought one enlighten us.

i3 lists at €48k (presumably €10k incentives go off this, so €38k). That's just far too much.

jusmeig

Ok, that timeline is much better and coincides with my NCT being up!

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Is it though? I believe with diesel scrappage the price is getting close enough to €30k? I wonder will the other poster who just bought one enlighten us.

i3 lists at €48k (presumably €10k incentives go off this, so €38k). That's just far too much.

Sorry I was basing on the old i3 list (€34,340), the new i3 bundles more previously optional equipment for €36,330.

eGolf's old list was €36,600. New list is €35,350.

Still the i3 comes with more standard equipment, 25% more motor power (or for €3k more an i3S with even more power), better steering, less weight, RWD and it's a dedicated EV platform not a half-assed conversion.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

Sorry I was basing on the old i3 list (€34,340), the new i3 bundles more previously optional equipment for €36,330.

BMW.ie says €48k (so €38k). No scrappage.

cros13 wrote: »

eGolf's old list was €36,600. New list is €35,350

€4k diesel scrappage

Linky


so €31k, which makes it only barely more expensive than Leaf or Ioniq (which isn't available)

So contrary to public belief, it looks like the eGolf is actually the best value for money EV that you can actually buy :eek:

Maybe they listened to us that day at VW Ireland, cros13

cros13

Excl. destination charges etc. (which are also missing from the eGolf RRP post-grants)

Scrappage prices don't matter if you don't have a VW-group vehicle to scrap and those are also limited time offers.

Patser

There's always the Twizy!

Only €10,000

http://www.linders.ie/web/twizy?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwab0jbLb2QIVyb_tCh3xQA8hEAAYASAAEgJf7PD_BwE

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

Scrappage prices don't matter if you don't have a VW-group vehicle to scrap and those are also limited time offers.

Did you check my link? It's a Euro 1-4 emissions diesel from any manufacturer. You could just pick one up from donedeal for €50. The same as I could have picked up a €50 banger to get the €4000 from Hyundai last year (but I actually did drive a worthless banger so I used that )

And I saw that BMW i3 "starting from" but when you actually click on the configure link it's €38k

So BMW i3 is not cheaper than eGolf. In fact it is well over 20% more expensive. But that's not what's interesting here, the i3 is a niche car. The interesting fact is that you can get an eGolf for about the same price as a Leaf or Ioniq. The eGolf is a far superior car to both of them.

Maybe VW have already started their big push towards EVs and they've been playing it down?

unkel

Patser wrote: »

There's always the Twizy!

Only €10,000

http://www.linders.ie/web/twizy?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwab0jbLb2QIVyb_tCh3xQA8hEAAYASAAEgJf7PD_BwE

At half that price it would still be overpriced. If you owned the battery, but you don't. Don't get me started on the mandatory battery lease on them :rolleyes:

Patser

I really like the Twizy, it's the sort of thing I'd love to have in garage to break out on a sunny day for a lark about in. Its great craic to drive.

But €10k and then having to (as you say Unkel) pay a good bit in battery rental extra, just to have. Madness.

unkel

Oh don't get me wrong, I would love one too. Our family of 5 is fine 98% of the time with just having one family car (Ioniq EV). But for that other 2% of the time we need another car. Just for me really to either go for a big hike in the mountains or to go about my business. And the bonus to that for me is to enjoy driving.

I have a classic Mercedes, but I have not used it at all, at all. I'm going to sell it. I also have a classic Porsche that's with a friend at the moment as I hadn't really been using it. Not sure what I will do going forward if I'm honest. I am acutely aware that if I sold the Porsche, that would be a mistake that I will regret. I'm not ready to go there. Even though the tax is €305 per 3 months

Padraig Mor

unkel wrote: »

Did you check my link? It's a Euro 1-4 emissions diesel from any manufacturer. You could just pick one up from donedeal for €50. The same as I could have picked up a €50 banger to get the €4000 from Hyundai last year (but I actually did drive a worthless banger so I used that )

Afraid not.

"Cars being scrapped must have been registered in the name of the purchaser of the new car for at least 6 months prior to the date of registration of the new car. Ownership of qualifying model must not have changed since September 1st 2017".

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

Did you check my link? It's a Euro 1-4 emissions diesel from any manufacturer. You could just pick one up from donedeal for €50. The same as I could have picked up a €50 banger to get the €4000 from Hyundai last year (but I actually did drive a worthless banger so I used that )

VW stick to the book. You have to show the car in your name for the last 6 months.

I had an old van which I thought I could trade in but when I tried they wouldn't do a commericail for a private car.

I think Hyundai was a bit more lax

Mr_Man

If you are looking across the entire island then you should be able to find the car (apart from the Tesla) you want up north. I had been looking at the new leaf and the dealer assured me that I could have the acenta model I was looking at within a month from order.

You ensure that they know you are paying the VAT down here and there is a simple form to fill in. The dealer will want assurance that you are buying for export. Then you pay the VAT at the same time as any VRT and bob's your uncle.

unkel

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Afraid not.

"Cars being scrapped must have been registered in the name of the purchaser of the new car for at least 6 months prior to the date of registration of the new car. Ownership of qualifying model must not have changed since September 1st 2017".

It said about the same when I bought my Ioniq. Car has to be taxed, insured, NCTd and in your name for 3 months. Some dealers required this, but others didn't care. Worth your while ringing 20 dealers and asking them

My Hyundai dealer did not even go see my scrappage car until I had already paid him the money and he had already given me the documentation and the keys. He's lucky if he hadn't to pay some one to come take the car away to be scrapped

zilog_jones

Mr_Man wrote: »

If you are looking across the entire island then you should be able to find the car (apart from the Tesla) you want up north. I had been looking at the new leaf and the dealer assured me that I could have the acenta model I was looking at within a month from order.

You ensure that they know you are paying the VAT down here and there is a simple form to fill in. The dealer will want assurance that you are buying for export. Then you pay the VAT at the same time as any VRT and bob's your uncle.

Would you have to get temporary plates if you wanted to drive it home from NI? I assume it won't get registered up north if you're exporting it immediately?

unkel

You can't drive it or insure it without it being registered!

I'd be interested in the process though myself. Hope someone can explain.

zilog_jones

There are ZZ plates available in the Republic for this situation (exporting an unregistered car out of Ireland): https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/vehicle-registration-tax/zz-registrations-vintage-vehicles-and-zv-plates.aspx

But I don't know if there's a UK equivalent...

Mr_Man

In my case the dealer was going to drive the car to the nearest NCT centre on their plates, see the car was registered, and the VAT paid. I guess this would only work for dealers who operate close to the border.

jusmeig

Mr_Man wrote: »

If you are looking across the entire island then you should be able to find the car (apart from the Tesla) you want up north. I had been looking at the new leaf and the dealer assured me that I could have the acenta model I was looking at within a month from order.

You ensure that they know you are paying the VAT down here and there is a simple form to fill in. The dealer will want assurance that you are buying for export. Then you pay the VAT at the same time as any VRT and bob's your uncle.

Does the above work out cheaper than waiting and buying here?

Mr_Man

It can do, especially if you have less than €5,000 to pay on VRT as the current 'grant' covers that.

The VAT is 2% higher here but the UK car prices are lower and you tend to get a better spec and more choice. In the example that I was looking at I was potentially saving €3-4k.

ei9go

Suspect, you don't get either the UK government EV grant or ours if you try this in an EV.

cros13

ei9go wrote: »

Suspect, you don't get either the UK government EV grant or ours if you try this in an EV.

Yes, to get the UK grant it needs to be registered there. To get our grant the dealer and model need to be registered with SEAI.

Patser

Right EV basics 101 continues:

Of you've a heavy duty type 2 to type 2 cable, that's not the same as a dc ready cable unless it as that little extra 2 pin bit? Or is it actually dc ok with just standard connection.

Looking at cables online they all seem just normal, unless I go off looking for 3rd level charging, which show chunkier connectors that I can't find for sale anywhere

KCross

Patser wrote: »

Right EV basics 101 continues:

Of you've a heavy duty type 2 to type 2 cable, that's not the same as a dc ready cable unless it as that little extra 2 pin bit? Or is it actually dc ok with just standard connection.

Looking at cables online they all seem just normal, unless I go off looking for 3rd level charging, which show chunkier connectors that I can't find for sale anywhere

You only charge with DC at a rapid charger and they have the cable attached to them. i.e. you don't buy a cable for DC charging.


You only need an AC cable and every car comes with one.

Patser

Brilliant, and sorry posted this on wrong thread.

micherly

Surprised more people aren't going for the eGolf with the scrappage offer and so many have gone for other models like Leaf and Ioniq - the 5000 euro I got off brought the price down to under 31000 and then I added a couple of extras like the digital dash which brought it up to 32,500.

The boot with the seats down is pretty decent and very accessible - almost a flat floor with very little lip - I use it on a regular basis for sports equipment... so if thats an issue for the OP they should check it out and take it for an extended test drive - I did this for the old 30kwh LEAF and eGolf and the eGolf just worked much better for lifting stuff in and out.

Also the interior finish of the dash is the same spec as the GOLF R afaik. With the digital dash and 9 inch infotainment console - it just puts it at a different level from that in the LEAF. The ease of use of the software, etc. especially the Sat Nav is very useful when range is a daily issue like for me. Its useful to get a good idea of what distance your journey is and see it so clearly displayed on the Sat Nav. I found the LEAF display just a bit too clunky.

The car you are trading in can belong to anyone in your family so it might be useful for someone else... who might be able to do a deal with a mother or brother to trade in their banger?

unkel

micherly wrote: »

Surprised more people aren't going for the eGolf with the scrappage offer and so many have gone for other models like Leaf and Ioniq - the 5000 euro I got off brought the price down to under 31000

So you could have got the car on the road with metallic paint but no other options for about €31k?

More people aren't going for it, simply because they don't know about it. It's a lot of EV for the money, for a car that's clearly a level up from Leaf / Ioniq in both build quality and driving ability.

Donnelly117

unkel wrote: »

So you could have got the car on the road with metallic paint but no other options for about €31k?

More people aren't going for it, simply because they don't know about it. It's a lot of EV for the money, for a car that's clearly a level up from Leaf / Ioniq in both build quality and driving ability.

I assume without scrappage you'd be talking mid to late 30s though?

micherly

yes but with Accelerated capital allowance I'll be able to knock off another 6000 euro from my tax bill this year because of this purchase https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/energy/topics/Energy-Efficiency/business/business-support-programmes/Pages/Accelerated-Capital-Allowances.aspx

but you can do this with any electric car purchase if you are a business owner or sole trader.... so it really knocks the sting out of the first years cost of ownership.

KrustyBurger

Morning folks. I was on here a couple of years back seeking advice on buying an ev. Didn't do it then but happy to say I've put a deposit down on an ioniq.

From reading the threads I thought that I'd be waiting 6-8 months so I rang a garage to ask about lead in times. They had one in stock so I went for it.

Can't wait now! Thanks to everyone who posts here. Your insights and knowledge are extremely helpful. I had thought about the new leaf as an alternative if I couldnt get my hands on the ioniq but from reading the threads I had a nagging doubt. Just have to find a name for it now!

Donnelly117

Is pcp the way everyone is going with the current crop of evs? I'm starting to put a bit of a plan I'm place to go ev by the end of the year but I've always just bought cars outright as the complexities of finance are beyond me 😂

Given the rate of change of the range/charging times and the relatively high depreciation (which seems to be slowing) are these cars not something to want to end up owning in 3/4 years time? Does pcp take the risk out as you can hand the car back at the end? Would buying a new leaf/current gen ionic/new egolf outright be a mad investment?

goz83

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Is pcp the way everyone is going with the current crop of evs? I'm starting to put a bit of a plan I'm place to go ev by the end of the year but I've always just bought cars outright as the complexities of finance are beyond me ��

Given the rate of change of the range/charging times and the relatively high depreciation (which seems to be slowing) are these cars not something to want to end up owning in 3/4 years time? Does pcp take the risk out as you can hand the car back at the end? Would buying a new leaf/current gen ionic/new egolf outright be a mad investment?

I'm all for PCP....but I wouldn't use it if I was changing in 2/3 years, because I would have taken the biggest depreciation hit of around 50%.

If there is an EV which has sufficient range to cover 99% of your driving needs, then go for it and don't be worrying about cars with more range in the future.

I wouldn't recommend getting an EV if you have to rely on public chargers every day.

Donnelly117

goz83 wrote: »

I'm all for PCP....but I wouldn't use it if I was changing in 2/3 years, because I would have taken the biggest depreciation hit of around 50%.

If there is an EV which has sufficient range to cover 99% of your driving needs, then go for it and don't be worrying about cars with more range in the future.

I wouldn't recommend getting an EV if you have to rely on public chargers every day.

Im kind of in the opposite situation where id rarely have to rely on the network but not doing enough milage to see big savings. I only do 12k km a year. Saying that I wouldnt be buying EV to save money but rather cause I find them quite interesting (with the byproduct of savings obviously).

My daily round trip is only 50km and weekend driving is minimal tbh. If it wasnt for my current car Id just go out and buy a 24kw leaf but the though of selling it myself is painful

goz83

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Im kind of in the opposite situation where id rarely have to rely on the network but not doing enough milage to see big savings. I only do 12k km a year. Saying that I wouldnt be buying EV to save money but rather cause I find them quite interesting (with the byproduct of savings obviously).

My daily round trip is only 50km and weekend driving is minimal tbh. If it wasnt for my current car Id just go out and buy a 24kw leaf but the though of selling it myself is painful

We do around 8k klms per year per car. The idea of not pumping petrol, or diesel into the tank every week was enough for me to make the move.

H.E. Pennypacker

Donnelly117 wrote: »

If it wasnt for my current car Id just go out and buy a 24kw leaf but the though of selling it myself is painful

Talk to Phil in Electric Autos in Naas. I know someone who bought a Leaf from him. Phil was able to facilitate the sale of the old car (I think to a trade buyer)

Shefwedfan

Donnelly117 wrote: »

Im kind of in the opposite situation where id rarely have to rely on the network but not doing enough milage to see big savings. I only do 12k km a year. Saying that I wouldnt be buying EV to save money but rather cause I find them quite interesting (with the byproduct of savings obviously).

My daily round trip is only 50km and weekend driving is minimal tbh. If it wasnt for my current car Id just go out and buy a 24kw leaf but the though of selling it myself is painful

Phil in electric autos will trade it in. He justs sells them into trade buyers. My A6 ended up with Rightpricecars.