Pro14 to leave FTA TV?

molloyjh

Digifriendly wrote: »

You 're putting a brave face on this but Celtic League organisers made a big mistake going with Setanta before. Pro 14 head honchos are repeating the same mistake with Premier Sports. I'm not saying Premier Sports will go bust like Setanta did but its as obscure to viewers in UK as Setanta was in its heyday. Here in NI I safely predict very few will subscribe to it.

Well yes, I've acknowledged there will be a hit in viewership. All I said was that obviously the Pro14 thinks the benefits will outweigh that and gave a possible explanation for their logic.

awec

It won’t be a short term hit on viewership. Every year the league is hidden on some obscure channel damages the brand. It won’t just magically rebound by going back to FTA.

Honestly this has the potential to wreck the Pro14 in the UK.

A league that is already struggling for relevancy. This really is just crazy stuff.

Former Former

Probably mentioned but Premier Sports themselves have a free to air channel in the UK (Freesports) so there is a chance that some games will stay FTA. Available to anyone in Ireland with a dish too, obvs.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Probably mentioned but Premier Sports themselves have a free to air channel in the UK (Freesports) so there is a chance that some games will stay FTA. Available to anyone in Ireland with a dish too, obvs.

I heard from a shifty chap that this is exactly what will happen as part of the deal.

Digifriendly

As is usual these days the love of money trumps everything else. I predict the demise of the Pro14 due to greed of its organisers.

Former Former

Digifriendly wrote: »

As is usual these days the love of money trumps everything else. I predict the demise of the Pro14 due to greed of its organisers.

You could probably also predict the demise of the Pro14 due to the buttons being paid by the current broadcasters.

Sky pulling out narrowed their options hugely.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

You could probably also predict the demise of the Pro14 due to the buttons being paid by the current broadcasters.

Sky pulling out narrowed their options hugely.

Sky only pulled out because they were beaten, they were after the rights as well. The options weren't limited.

They won't really ever be limited. The market will shift hugely over the next decade as well and the competition only ever had to break even in the short term for the Union-run sides.

Amazon are entering the UK sports rights market now, supposedly in a major way. That will change things because the Pro 14 deal is just a rounding error to them. It remains to be seen exactly how such a deal would work, it won't be a short-term option, but the Pro 14 are doing a good job of building the sort of competition that a very large company could be interested in wasting a lot of money on. If you think having to subscribe to a specific channel to watch the rugby on TV is bad, imagine having to buy a specific device to watch it from.

Ernie Mckracken

Are you hinting at a Kindle / amazon fire TV type device with Amazon streaming ?

awec

Former Former wrote: »

Probably mentioned but Premier Sports themselves have a free to air channel in the UK (Freesports) so there is a chance that some games will stay FTA. Available to anyone in Ireland with a dish too, obvs.

Even if they do this the discoverability is non-existent. The only people watching will be those who go looking.

dregin

awec wrote: »

Because nobody has a Premier Sports subscription. They are moving from massive potential viewer numbers to tiny potential viewer numbers.

Who is going to pay a tenner a month for 1 or 2 pro14 games at the weekend?

Looking at the actual bid money is just so short sighted. The league will not grow on Premier Sports.

I'd happily pay that, if it's a HQ online stream.

dregin

Also, Ace Stream is where this stuff should be being broadcast. Quality is as good as you're going to get and the bandwidth is shared using bit torrent across clients, so you're not left with laggy crap.

Just on all the talk of streaming, Sky Go via a games console is seriously good. I find it indistinguishable from actually watching TV.

There are two negatives though which are very rare but occasional buffering, and no record/rewind function.

NorthDown2

It will be interesting to see if the BBC bid for radio rights so at least we can hear what's going on in the Pro 14. The problem there is BBC Radio Ulster will put it on mouldy old MW - it would be good if they bid for it and bid for Uk rights so it can help fill 5Live Sports Extra when they don't have football. I wonder if RTE will have radio rights (please not Newstalk - reception is so poor up here!)
I'm sorry but it will have to be TG4's highlights of the Champions' Cup and RTE (tx from Republic on DTT) AI & Against the Head for next season then. Unless TG4 are allowed to bid for a highlights package. I could foresee the odd time delayed match shown on Freesports, I remain to be convinced they'd show it live.

bilston

I would be happy to see Amazon come in for the rights. They could use the Pro 14 as a testing platform to show their capability of broadcasting sport on a regular basis before making a big push for the Premier League rights in 3 years time.

Although I suspect Pro 14 rugby is pretty far off Amazon's radar.

Homesick Alien

prawnsambo wrote: »

I just think this will end up strangling the life out of rugby viewership. Too many platforms and too difficult to keep track of. I know people who started watching club rugby because of TG4's coverage. Previously might have watched 6N or AIs only. Now they would watch matches most weekends. I believe a lot of them just won't bother going with the streaming services, partly because they're not as easily accessible but also because it won't be something they'd get reminded about on their TVs.

Let's not forget that the current FTA model is a bit of a mess too. I have virgin media TV so I don't get S4C, BBC Alba or BBC Wales. I don't have Sky Sports so I can't watch any of those games unless I go to the pub. And obviously the Italian TV channels are out too. So currently unless a game is on TG4 or BBC NI I can't watch it at home. If all games were to go to a subscription channel such as premier or Eir I would happily pay for it.

Schorpio

Homesick Alien wrote: »

Let's not forget that the current FTA model is a bit of a mess too. I have virgin media TV so I don't get S4C, BBC Alba or BBC Wales. I don't have Sky Sports so I can't watch any of those games unless I go to the pub. And obviously the Italian TV channels are out too. So currently unless a game is on TG4 or BBC NI I can't watch it at home. If all games were to go to a subscription channel such as premier or Eir I would happily pay for it.

Yeah, but the beauty of FTA here is that, for the one off cost of putting up a freesat dish, you would then get S4C, BBC Alba and BBC Wales. If you're keen enough about the league to pay for the subscription service every month, the one-off cost of putting up a dish would pay for itself in the long run.

Homesick Alien

Schorpio wrote: »

Yeah, but the beauty of FTA here is that, for the one off cost of putting up a freesat dish, you would then get S4C, BBC Alba and BBC Wales. If you're keen enough about the league to pay for the subscription service every month, the one-off cost of putting up a dish would pay for itself in the long run.

I think the benefit of that would be heavily outweighed by the convenience of a one-stop shop for Pro14 which would have all commentary in English and would presumably include a highlights package. If there was a link with Eir/BT sport which has exclusive champions cup coverage from next season then I'm all in.

Schorpio

Homesick Alien wrote: »

I think the benefit of that would be heavily outweighed by the convenience of a one-stop shop for Pro14 which would have all commentary in English and would presumably include a highlights package. If there was a link with Eir/BT sport which has exclusive champions cup coverage from next season then I'm all in.

Don't get me wrong - if such a platform existed I'd be all in too, no doubt about it. If Premier are able to show me every Pro14 game (live and catch-up) on a high quality streaming platform, which can be Chromecast to my TV for a tenner a month then I'll be happy. But that doesn't help the sport grow. As I said earlier, the only reason I got into the league was because it was FTA. It basically didn't exist to me when it was on Setanta.

Trojan

I'm bemused by the folks on Twitter mourning the loss of rugby on BBC Alba, the only "unbiased" source for rugby. Did these people ever listen to the commentary? The recent Leinster match the commentators didn't mention a single visiting player's name for long periods, even when they scored a try (they discussed the home defensive failings instead).

prawnsambo

Schorpio wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - if such a platform existed I'd be all in too, no doubt about it. If Premier are able to show me every Pro14 game (live and catch-up) on a high quality streaming platform, which can be Chromecast to my TV for a tenner a month then I'll be happy. But that doesn't help the sport grow. As I said earlier, the only reason I got into the league was because it was FTA. It basically didn't exist to me when it was on Setanta.

Exactly my point. I know people who share your experience and I also know that many of them will drift away becaue of the relative inaccessability of streaming services. Some of them because they just don't have the bandwidth, others because they don't have the technical know-how and more because they don't have the kit capable of viewing the streams on their TV.

Bazzo

Trojan wrote: »

I'm bemused by the folks on Twitter mourning the loss of rugby on BBC Alba, the only "unbiased" source for rugby. Did these people ever listen to the commentary? The recent Leinster match the commentators didn't mention a single visiting player's name for long periods, even when they scored a try (they discussed the home defensive failings instead).

Speaking of, the coverage of Cheetahs Connacht at the weekend was a breath of fresh air. Everybody else could take a leaf out of the saffers books for unbiased commentary.

errlloyd

Bazzo wrote: »

Speaking of, the coverage of Cheetahs Connacht at the weekend was a breath of fresh air. Everybody else could take a leaf out of the saffers books for unbiased commentary.

Their commentary is excellent.

connemara man

Bazzo wrote: »

Speaking of, the coverage of Cheetahs Connacht at the weekend was a breath of fresh air. Everybody else could take a leaf out of the saffers books for unbiased commentary.

I learnt a lot about the players. But they weren't the most excitable lot..

Podge_irl

Trojan wrote: »

I'm bemused by the folks on Twitter mourning the loss of rugby on BBC Alba, the only "unbiased" source for rugby. Did these people ever listen to the commentary? The recent Leinster match the commentators didn't mention a single visiting player's name for long periods, even when they scored a try (they discussed the home defensive failings instead).

Meh, everyone probably thinks their commentary is unbiased because it is biased towards themselves

There is no perfect coverage or commentary and frankly I would view the likes of Alba or BBC NI as fulfilling their remit by focusing on Ulster/Scots sides.


Is the Pro14 the only league currently on FTA? I am sure it does help with growth but ultimately at some point it was going to follow the example of the Top 14 and Premiership.

Henry Ford III

Change is inevitable I suppose and the Pro14 is on the up so new bidders will have deeper pockets.

It's a p.i.t.a. having to pay so many subs to get total coverage, but I'm delighted TG4 have lost the rights. They could and should have provided an English commentary option just like S4c.

The Lost Sheep

Podge_irl wrote: »

Meh, everyone probably thinks their commentary is unbiased because it is biased towards themselves

There is no perfect coverage or commentary and frankly I would view the likes of Alba or BBC NI as fulfilling their remit by focusing on Ulster/Scots sides.

Is the Pro14 the only league currently on FTA? I am sure it does help with growth but ultimately at some point it was going to follow the example of the Top 14 and Premiership.

Premiership isnt but arent they bringing some games to FTA or already have?
We've had some games non FTA but should we go to it exclusively? Im not sure.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Change is inevitable I suppose and the Pro14 is on the up so new bidders will have deeper pockets.

It's a p.i.t.a. having to pay so many subs to get total coverage, but I'm delighted TG4 have lost the rights. They could and should have provided an English commentary option just like S4c.

Are you sure they could and why should they? Thats not the point of the channel anyway not going to discuss this more as mods dont like that issue being discussed...
Wouldnt necessarily see just because league is kind of on the up that new bidders necessarily will be paying more.

Tigerandahalf

Has anyone an idea what games eir will have here in Ireland. Will all home games be covered and what about away games involving Irish teams?

Could eir be televising Leinster v Munster and Premier Sports having Scarlets Leinster, for e.g.

It has been a pain in the butt with BT/Sky covering the CC as it was always hard to find out which channel it was on, especially if you didn't have one broadcaster and wanted to go somewhere to see it.

Hopefully it will be easy to see what games are covered, whereas upto now you had to put your phone into landscape mode to view tv fixtures. Even the new app isn't great to find stuff.

Super Rugby have nice highlights of each game that goes up very quickly on youtube/facebook. Hopefully something like that will follow.

icdg

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Could eir be televising Leinster v Munster and Premier Sports having Scarlets Leinster, for e.g.
.

Barring GAA Championship and Sunday league fixtures, eir Sport 2 carries everything Premier Sports does. Including their advertising, promos, and idents. They are one and the same channel.

Tigerandahalf

icdg wrote: »

Barring GAA Championship and Sunday league fixtures, eir Sport 2 carries everything Premier Sports does. Including their advertising, promos, and idents. They are one and the same channel.

So does that mean viewers in the UK would also get to see all Irish games, something they wouldn't have got before with games on tg4?

c.p.w.g.w

I wonder are itv going to try and get in on this, they took six nations from BBC( some of the games anyway)

icdg

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So does that mean viewers in the UK would also get to see all Irish games, something they wouldn't have got before with games on tg4?

Not necessarily. To give the perhaps best comparative example, on Saturday evenings in February and March, eir Sport and Premier Sports have the rights to the GAA Allianz Leagues. Games are broadcast on both eir Sport 1 & 2 at 7:00pm and sometimes at 5;00pm. The games shown live on eir Sport 2 are also live on Premier Sports, because they are the same channel. The games shown on eir Sport 1 are not shown live in the UK (but they may get a repeat later on Premier Sports or FreeSports).

A similar situation might apply for the Pro14. The last time Setanta had the rights, games were split between Setanta Ireland (now eir Sport 1) and Setanta Sports 1(eir Sport 2). That was in an era when Setanta Ireland was included in basic cable packages but Setanta 1 was not (and Leinster v Munster in particular was nearly always on Setanta 1).

Tigerandahalf

So it is very possible that a good share of Irish games could only be on Premier Sports.

Premier Sports is on satellite isn't it? So how many channels can they run on it?

bilston

Up until this season the Pro 12 was getting about £12m a year in TV money, the addition of the two South African teams bumped that up to £18m a year. According to a Welsh journalist on Twitter this new deal will be worth £20m a year. It's about £200,000 a year to each team. Is that enough to put the whole thing on Pay TV?

I guess we'll have to wait for confirmation.

awec

bilston wrote: »

Up until this season the Pro 12 was getting about £12m a year in TV money, the addition of the two South African teams bumped that up to £18m a year. According to a Welsh journalist on Twitter this new deal will be worth £20m a year. It's about £200,000 a year to each team. Is that enough to put the whole thing on Pay TV?

I guess we'll have to wait for confirmation.

2,000,000 / 14 = 142,000, no? Where you getting the 200 grand?

Either way, seems like a small amount of money in pro rugby terms.

bilston

awec wrote: »

2,000,000 / 14 = 142,000, no? Where you getting the 200 grand?

Either way, seems like a small amount of money in pro rugby terms.

I was just quoting someone who themselves were quoting Simon Thomas from Twitter, but yes obviously £2m divided by 14 is less than £200k.

Podge_irl

I would think if a new deal is worth 20m that the SA monies would be added on top? Which makes it more like 12->20.

Tigerandahalf

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would think if a new deal is worth 20m that the SA monies would be added on top? Which makes it more like 12->20.

I doubt if the new deal is worth as much as 28 million. That would be > 50% increase.

Perhaps the poster is indicating that each team will get an extra 200,000 which brings the total deal to 20 million (up from 18 million).

Then again they would hardly take it away from fta for 2 million?

We were told that the bbc bid significantly more. If it is 28 million that would be a superb deal.

irishbucsfan

The BBC themselves said they bid significantly more. It wouldn't make sense if it was a marginal increase if Welsh journalists are to be believed. I would be hesitant to take the word of journalists in Cardiff, Belfast, Galway or Edinburgh too literally given this move is going to lead to a lot of their friends being out of work (unfortunately).

Tigerandahalf

If there are no live games on fta it is a great opportunity for clubs to hand out free entry to under 18s. Make it cheap for families to go to games.

Even a school or a club could bring 50 kids to a game, free entry and you could be getting life long supporters. They would eat food in the ground and probably want to buy a jersey.

sydthebeat

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If there are no live games on fta it is a great opportunity for clubs to hand out free entry to under 18s. Make it cheap for families to go to games.

Even a school or a club could bring 50 kids to a game, free entry and you could be getting life long supporters. They would eat food in the ground and probably want to buy a jersey.

this already happens.

leinster already have the "one club, one province scheme" with €5 tickets available.

im sure other provinces do similar.

The Lost Sheep

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If there are no live games on fta it is a great opportunity for clubs to hand out free entry to under 18s. Make it cheap for families to go to games.

Even a school or a club could bring 50 kids to a game, free entry and you could be getting life long supporters. They would eat food in the ground and probably want to buy a jersey.

Already happens a lot. In Munster each of the 4 youths regional sections get tickets for each game and those tickets are free. Then there's the mini's who play half time which can be anywhere from 20 to 50.

In Connacht there is large numbers who get in free and get tickets for bohermore end of ground and then do lap of ground and play half time.

sydthebeat wrote: »

this already happens.

leinster already have the "one club, one province scheme" with €5 tickets available.

im sure other provinces do similar.

Also is free tickets for some as well depending on whats going on.

GavMan

Bazzo wrote: »

Speaking of, the coverage of Cheetahs Connacht at the weekend was a breath of fresh air. Everybody else could take a leaf out of the saffers books for unbiased commentary.

Hugh Bladen is a distinguished commentator. I'd bracket him with Bill McLaren, certainly. Grant Nesbitt also

Hugely enjoyed him when he was the go to man on Currie Cup games

irishbucsfan

The42 reporting that TG4 will be keeping their coverage after an agreement with EirSport.

Great stuff.

Diabhal Beag

Tg4 gets very little credit for sport coverage. Best channel in Ireland.

Henry Ford III

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Tg4 gets very little credit for sport coverage. Best channel in Ireland.

....if you can understand Irish.

irishbucsfan

Henry Ford III wrote: »

....if you can understand Irish.

I don’t understand it, but I would pay a vast amount of money for Sky’s commentators to start speaking Irish

Diabhal Beag

Henry Ford III wrote: »

....if you can understand Irish.

Great way to learn.

Hurrache

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Great way to learn.

I noticed last year or the year before they stopped putting the little translations for technical terms occasionally on top of the screen.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don’t understand it, but I would pay a vast amount of money for Sky’s commentators to start speaking Irish

Stuart Barnes is always open to new experiences.

But on a serious note, the slagging of TG4 is so unfair. They pretty much did a William Webb Ellis with the league in this country and should be forever lauded for it. Delighted they are keeping it on.

MJohnston

I wonder if Rugbypass will expand their Pro14 schedule now that rights are being renegotiated. It's great being able to watch Six Nations and Champions Cup there, but the Pro 14 schedule is too sparse.