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Cricket World Cup Qualifiers

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    #1562
    Derco
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭Derco


    Was there any real point in having a final for this tournament?


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    #1563
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Derco wrote: »
    Was there any real point in having a final for this tournament?
    How else do you suggest they find a winner?


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    #1564
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Derco wrote: »
    Was there any real point in having a final for this tournament?

    Well at least considering the teams in the tournament it offered the possibility of another precious full member ODI, which worked out brilliantly for the Afghans, two wins over WI this tournament


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    #1565
    Derco
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭Derco


    First Up wrote: »
    How else do you suggest they find a winner?

    It was a competition for the last two spots in the World Cup. No need for an overall winner. In other World Cups it may decide which group each team goes into but next years one will just have one group of 10.


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    #1566
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Derco wrote: »
    It was a competition for the last two spots in the World Cup. No need for an overall winner. In other World Cups it may decide which group each team goes into but next years one will just have one group of 10.

    What's wrong with an auld Junior A cup?


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    #1567
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Derco wrote: »
    First Up wrote: »
    How else do you suggest they find a winner?

    It was a competition for the last two spots in the World Cup. No need for an overall winner. In other World Cups it may decide which group each team goes into but next years one will just have one group of 10.

    It didn't "need" an overall winner but why would you not want to have one?


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    #1568
    Derco
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭Derco


    First Up wrote: »
    It didn't "need" an overall winner but why would you not want to have one?

    It just seems pointless. A bit like the 3rd place play off at the football World Cup. Afghanistan will be happy with the ranking points but I doubt the Windies gave a toss either way.


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    #1569
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Derco wrote: »
    First Up wrote: »
    It didn't "need" an overall winner but why would you not want to have one?

    It just seems pointless. A bit like the 3rd place play off at the football World Cup. Afghanistan will be happy with the ranking points but I doubt the Windies gave a toss either way.
    I agree that a 3d place play off is pointless (other than filling TV screens) but if top class competitive sportsmen enter a tournament, they expect to get a chance to win it.


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    #1570
    Derco
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭Derco


    First Up wrote: »
    I agree that a 3d place play off is pointless (other than filling TV screens) but if top class competitive sportsmen enter a tournament, they expect to get a chance to win it.

    They already did


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    #1571
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Derco wrote: »
    First Up wrote: »
    I agree that a 3d place play off is pointless (other than filling TV screens) but if top class competitive sportsmen enter a tournament, they expect to get a chance to win it.

    They already did
    Maybe you should look up what "competitive" means.

    If you don't understand what having the chance to beat the West Indies means for Afghan cricketers, I think you need a new hobby.


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    #1572
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    If it was just for the full members it might be a bit pointless, but every game is important for the associates*

    *Are we still Associates?


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    #1573
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    First Up wrote: »
    I agree that a 3d place play off is pointless (other than filling TV screens) but if top class competitive sportsmen enter a tournament, they expect to get a chance to win it.

    Bronze medals pointless then?


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    #1574
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    feargale wrote: »
    First Up wrote: »
    I agree that a 3d place play off is pointless (other than filling TV screens) but if top class competitive sportsmen enter a tournament, they expect to get a chance to win it.

    Bronze medals pointless then?
    The case being made was that there was no need for gold or silver.


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    #1575
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    feargale wrote: »
    First Up wrote: »
    I agree that a 3d place play off is pointless (other than filling TV screens) but if top class competitive sportsmen enter a tournament, they expect to get a chance to win it.

    Bronze medals pointless then?
    The case being made was that there was no need for gold or silver for this tournament.


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    #1576
    TrueDub
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭TrueDub


    riffmongous wrote: »
    *Are we still Associates?

    No, both ourselves & Afg are now full members.


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    #1577
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    TrueDub wrote: »
    No, both ourselves & Afg are now full members.

    Going to need a new phrase to describe us now then..


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    #1578
    TrueDub
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭TrueDub


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Going to need a new phrase to describe us now then..

    Really? Full members covers it.

    It's ridiculous that the distinction even exists, but it's the reality.


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    #1579
    lambayire
    Registered Users Posts: 914 ✭✭✭lambayire


    We're a full member in name only.

    The odd game here and there.
    Chopping the World Cup to 10 teams is evidence of that.


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    #1580
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Afghanistan on course to hammer the West Indies, 140/1 chasing 204

    Was glad to see that the Afghans won. They seem to be a team on the up and should give a good account of themselves in the ODI World Cup.

    But on the subject of this tournament in general, I can see no reason why ALL countries should not have to qualify. Could you envisage a batch of teams getting a bye straight though to the FIFA World Cup finals? No, they should all take their chances and qualify.


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    #1581
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    But on the subject of this tournament in general, I can see no reason why ALL countries should not have to qualify. Could you envisage a batch of teams getting a bye straight though to the FIFA World Cup finals? No, they should all take their chances and qualify.

    In fairness there's lots and lots of such tournaments in various sports where the Top X in the World on a certain date qualify, and the remainder of the places have to be fought for. Or where the Top X finishers from the previous event qualify. The cricket format isn't that unusual.

    Really it's just the numbers of auto qualifiers which is wrong - 8 of 10 is too much and if they had instead limited it to just the Top6 or even Top4 in the World it would have been better as it would also have made every one day series that bit more competitive. And put the rest into the qualifiers along with the associates etc.


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    #1582
    endabob1
    Registered Users Posts: 911 ✭✭✭endabob1


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    In fairness there's lots and lots of such tournaments in various sports where the Top X in the World on a certain date qualify, and the remainder of the places have to be fought for. Or where the Top X finishers from the previous event qualify. The cricket format isn't that unusual.

    Really it's just the numbers of auto qualifiers which is wrong - 8 of 10 is too much and if they had instead limited it to just the Top6 or even Top4 in the World it would have been better as it would also have made every one day series that bit more competitive. And put the rest into the qualifiers along with the associates etc.

    Rugby operates in a similar way, the top 3 from each of the 2015 pools qualify automatically, ergo Georgia have qualified automatically for 2019 RWC.

    The real issue with cricket is that they reduced the ODI world cup to 10 teams just when they expanded the number of full members to 12
    Rather than growing the game they are looking to consolidate around the biggest countries.

    The argument that there was too many games in the last world cup is a nonsense, the new format is 1 game less in total. With one group of 10 teams and only the top 4 spots for semi finals there will be loads of dead rubbers in it.

    The ICC are using the same format for the 2023 World Cup too which is a huge mistake as it basically rules out the chances of any associates to make it.
    So the impact that Ireland had as an associate in 2007 beating Pakistan, beating England in 2011, West Indies in 2015 will probably never happen again, unless the format is changed.


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    #1583
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Looking from the outside it all seems so horribly elitist and shortsighted. Of course major finals should, by their nature, be elitist, but if growing the game is to be anything more than a token desire, then there has to be a balance struck and allowances made. As a non-rugby fan, I can barely remember the latter stages of the last World Cup while the performances of several of the emerging nations captured my imagination and left a warm lingering glow in the memory.


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