Job offered then withdrawn

Joffrey

I'm wondering if I have any options or if i've just been hard done by here.

On the 5th of Febuary I was offered a job with Bank of Ireland to take a role as Welcome advisor and that today (the 26th) would be my start date. Now this was done over the phone and then I was sent a docusign of everything they wanted me to upload. I did this and heard nothing about start time or uniform. So I emailed the person who i'd been in contact with and whom had interviewed and offered me the job, just to ask about those 2 things.

I quickly got a quick email response asking if I could confirm I had a level 8 degree.

I responded that I hadn't, my entire cover letter had been about how I didn't have a degree but in a role such as this I felt my 12yrs customer service experience triumps a degree and asked if this would affect me getting this position. I mean the first thing I was asked in the interview was "talk us through your cv" to which I responded "I start working straight out of school".

I was told i'd get an answer by the end of the week. Now keep this in mind, i've handed in my notice with my current employer and unemployed if this falls through.

I get no response from them last week, so 4pm friday I email and get an out of office response. Then today I get an email saying "sorry" basically.

My old job have offered me hours for this week but that's all I know, how i'm set up after this is very hazy. I should be probably be grateful, but the job is horrendous and on what is suppose to be the coldest week in the last 35yrs i'll be spending 43hrs of it standing outside, and I don't know if I have a job after it, not great communication in the company would be an understatement.

cavemeister

In my experience, you should never hand in your notice till you have received your contract in the post. Once it's signed, you then resign from current job.

BOI have no legal obligation till they issue a contract.

Joffrey

BIt of a harsh lesson learnt. I suppose when I got congratulations over the phone and in an email I thought it was mine. Life in ruins over their lack of doing their due diligence

RossieMan

They did their due diligence. It's why you didn't get the job.

It should have been noticed in the interview. But they clearly state you must have a level 8 degree in their job offers.

Hitman3000

Joffrey wrote:

BIt of a harsh lesson learnt. I suppose when I got congratulations over the phone and in an email I thought it was mine. Life in ruins over their lack of doing their due diligence

It's only a job your life is not in ruins. Can you not ask your old employer for your job?

Joffrey

RossieMan wrote: »

They did their due diligence. It's why you didn't get the job.

It should have been noticed in the interview. But they clearly state you must have a level 8 degree in their job offers.

My cover letter and interview both times I clearly stated I had no degree but 12yrs of customer experience. They offered me job over the phone, told me when I was starting and how much notice I had to give my current employer so I could be available, email congratulations with documents of address, passport etc to send in, an email back after it was completed that all criteria had been filled etc.

I would say they didn't to their job properly.

I have rent and insurance to pay and potential unemployment, it's a bit of a big deal.

jimmycrackcorm

You should phone the person again and explain that you have already resigned on the basis that you resigned your job because of their offer.

You have been completely open and honest about your qualifications. Given the role, I'd fail to see why a level 8 is required and you should ask about getting an exemption from that requirement.

In my sector nearly all jobs are advertised as requiring either a degree or equivalent experience. Was this advertised as such also? If so and you have an email from them confirming the job offer then you've a strong argument to take up with them.

august12

Joffrey wrote:

I would say they didn't to their job properly.

All phone calls are generally recorded. Check if this is the case. You can also request a copy of it,

Joffrey

Thanks for the responses, my anger at this has died down quiet a lot. It's been very depressing after telling people about my new role and now having to explain what's happened. I've been given work hours this week, I imagine they'll be happy to keep me on, job is horrific though, 43 hours outside in this weather this week instead of starting off a new career.

RossieMan

Believe me, a job in the bank is not all it's cracked up to be. Count yourself lucky.

Joffrey

I work in retail security. Standing outside in the cold and get abuse yelled at me by teenagers and 5 nights a week I get home around 10.30pm......I would of loved it.

Alkers

I actually heard an extremely similar story about someone else starting s position in a bank in the new year. I must check the details as I think it was boi also!

RossieMan

The grass isn't always greener. You've no idea what the job actually is until you do it.

Dealing with people's money is very different than you think.

I'll leave it at that, good luck with the job search.

Joffrey

I've heard from someone I know in citibank, that they were talking to someone in BOI and they told them they were working in the job 2 weeks before being asked if they had a degree, or to provide it, i'm not sure which one.

august12

Joffrey wrote:

I work in retail security. Standing outside in the cold and get abuse yelled at me by teenagers and 5 nights a week I get home around 10.30pm......I would of loved it.

I would contact them in writing and ask for a written explanation as to why the offer has been retracted and reasons for same, ask for a copy of the recorded phone call and depending on response, there is a method of obtaining this phone call, Google search and you will find.

Hitman3000

Joffrey wrote:

I work in retail security. Standing outside in the cold and get abuse yelled at me by teenagers and 5 nights a week I get home around 10.30pm......I would of loved it.

All you can do is keep applying. It is easier to go from one job to another, harder if you are on the dole.

cnoc

Joffrey wrote: »

I've heard from someone I know in citibank, that they were talking to someone in BOI and they told them they were working in the job 2 weeks before being asked if they had a degree, or to provide it, i'm not sure which one.

What was the outcome?

5rtytry56

Joffrey wrote: »

I quickly got a quick email response asking if I could confirm I had a level 8 degree.

I responded that I hadn't, my entire cover letter had been about how I didn't have a degree but in a role such as this I felt my 12yrs customer service experience triumps a degree and asked if this would affect me getting this position. I mean the first thing I was asked in the interview was "talk us through your cv" to which I responded "I start working straight out of school".

I was told i'd get an answer by the end of the week. Now keep this in mind, i've handed in my notice with my current employer and unemployed if this falls through.

I get no response from them last week, so 4pm friday I email and get an out of office response. Then today I get an email saying "sorry" basically.

.

There in lies your shortcoming: Since 2016 or a lot of companies like BOI seem to be using Level 8 degree as pre requisite. I don't have a level 8 degree either if that makes you feel any better. This has been going on since 2016. You might have decades of relevant work experience as well - I got a certificate for having complete d 10 years in in a while ago. Still feel lackbf the level 8 dgree though.

Merrymonday

Don't give up. You were honest with them from the start. They made the mistake, not you. You did well to get the interview and get offered the job. Plenty make it to interview stage and then mess up the interview. With all your experience there should be a job out there for you. I would call back the person who offered you the job and let them know how this has messed you about. Be polite but don't let it go. What have you got to lose? If they can't help you ask to speak to their manager. It's tricky dealing with big organisations because they have their procedures to follow and boxes to tick. I'd say half their older senior managers don't have degrees! You never know, even if they can't give you this job they might have another post they could offer you instead. Keep bugging them. That's no way to treat people.

AlphabetCards

Ireland is pretty bad for this kind of nonsense - as if a level 8 degree is necessary for a customer service role. The fact that they don't stipulate any subject area makes it even worse. Sorry to hear about this OP.

Alkers

Simona1986 wrote:

I actually heard an extremely similar story about someone else starting s position in a bank in the new year. I must check the details as I think it was boi also!

Just checked this out and it was actually AIB, otherwise a near identical story!

Joffrey

Thanks for the responses, been very busy. I'd post a screenshot because it actually states "as discussed by phone, we are delighted to offer you" which is at least a verbal agreement. But I don't want any names in it.

Ash.J.Williams

Joffrey wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, been very busy. I'd post a screenshot because it actually states "as discussed by phone, we are delighted to offer you" which is at least a verbal agreement. But I don't want any names in it.

and you were given something to sign electronically?

CruelCoin

august12 wrote: »

All phone calls are generally recorded. Check if this is the case. You can also request a copy of it,

To what end?

No contract, no job. I'm not sure what the OP can do with a recording at this point.

CruelCoin

AlphabetCards wrote: »

Ireland is pretty bad for this kind of nonsense - as if a level 8 degree is necessary for a customer service role. The fact that they don't stipulate any subject area makes it even worse. Sorry to hear about this OP.

The actual content of the degree really matters very little. Why employers look for it, is that it's a marker to show that the rote learning of second level has been beat out of you. Making the transition between spoon-fed and self-driven education is a big leap for some people, and the degree just exists as proof for those guys not specifying a subject.

zell12

LOIVE on Lahvlahn
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057822484&page=662

cruizer101

CruelCoin wrote: »

it's a marker to show that the rote learning of second level has been beat out of you. Making the transition between spoon-fed and self-driven education is a big leap for some people, and the degree just exists as proof for those guys not specifying a subject.

You'd be surprised how many degrees there are now that you can easily get through on rote learning.

I'd be contacting them OP and telling them you have given in notice, try get talking to the people who interviewed you, chances are they want you but someone in hr went over your file and saw you didn't check on particular box, they should be able to get around it if they really want you.

BattleCorp

Joffrey wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, been very busy. I'd post a screenshot because it actually states "as discussed by phone, we are delighted to offer you" which is at least a verbal agreement. But I don't want any names in it.

Having been sent correspondence stating that you had been offered the job, surely there must be some comeback on the bank?

28064212

BattleCorp wrote: »

Having been sent correspondence stating that you had been offered the job, surely there must be some comeback on the bank?

Why would there be comeback on the bank? Even if there was a signed contract in place, there wouldn't be any comeback. He'd be on probation, meaning he could be let go for any reason (or none). At best, he'd get a week's notice.

BattleCorp

28064212 wrote: »

Why would there be comeback on the bank? Even if there was a signed contract in place, there wouldn't be any comeback. He'd be on probation, meaning he could be let go for any reason (or none). At best, he'd get a week's notice.

Seriously sh1t situation then eh.

FishOnABike

BattleCorp wrote: »

Having been sent correspondence stating that you had been offered the job, surely there must be some comeback on the bank?

If your current job doesn't keep you on after handing in your notice I'd look for legal advice on whether the email could be considered binding on the bank. It might be pointless anyway because even if you could legally force the bank to honour their offer they could still dismiss you for any (or even no reason) within the first year until you would come under the protection of the unfair dismissals act.

I think it is pretty poor conduct by the bank,but hey, given the revelations of the bank bailout inquires, miselling of mortgage protection insurance, and tracker mortgage scandals I wouldnt expect much integrity of any financial institution.

tringle

Can you officially in writing appeal the decision, to the hr department, the brank manager, anyone else. I know I was interviews for a position with a public body. 4 people where appointed and the person that was number 6 appealed. It held the whole process up.about 3 months. They got moved from number 6 to number 5, still did them no good.
I wouldn't take this lying down, are BOI staff covered by a union, they may be able to.do something. You say they offered you the job and told you what notice to give...therefore they have to be responsible for you leaving your job.

_Brian

A lot of posters are insinuating that op has some case here when he hasn’t.

Yes it’s a pretty **** situation and poor form that they offered the job only to revoke the offer. But that’s it done. Really op would have little rights until at least a year in employment never mind some wishy washy conversation on the phone.
OP compounded the problem by jumping the gun with their current employer, an unfortunate mistake. Perhaps OP can go back to their employer and withdraw their notice, this has a better chance than harassing the bank who have no responsibility to OP whatsoever.

Best of luck.

yosser hughes

OP, did you do the interview with Bank of Ireland or was the job actually with CPL who contract for BOI?
If it was CPL then your beef is with them isn't it?

tringle

_Brian wrote: »

A lot of posters are insinuating that op has some case here when he hasn’t.

Really op would have little rights until at least a year in employment never mind some wishy washy conversation on the phone.
OP compounded the problem by jumping the gun with their current employer,

Best of luck.

But they
Offered him the job
Gave him a start date
TOLD him what notice to give his employer
And then put it in writing
They never said this was provisional.subject to references or qualifications checking out

Legal or not he has every right to.be agrieved

anewme

Just heard the recording of your interview on Joe Duffy and you came across very well.

It’s an absolute joke they expect people with a level 8 degree to work for 23k.

And the job sounds a bit of dead end job so you might be best off out of it.

Most customer service jobs Pay a fair bit more than that.

Good luck op.

28064212

tringle wrote: »

But they
Offered him the job
Gave him a start date
TOLD him what notice to give his employer
And then put it in writing
They never said this was provisional.subject to references or qualifications checking out

Legal or not he has every right to.be agrieved

What if the contract had been signed, he shows up on the first day, and at the end of it, they say "it's not working out, we're not going to keep you on"? Would he have a right to be aggrieved in that case?

ted1

Mr.S wrote: »

RossieMan wrote: »

They did their due diligence. It's why you didn't get the job.

It should have been noticed in the interview. But they clearly state you must have a level 8 degree in their job offers.

Yes and 10+ years of CS experience easily trumps a degree. Requirements on a job spec aren’t usually followed down to the T.

Very, very poor form on BoI’s part.

It doesn’t.
As there’s no standard.

tringle

28064212 wrote: »

What if the contract had been signed, he shows up on the first day, and at the end of it, they say "it's not working out, we're not going to keep you on"? Would he have a right to be aggrieved in that case?

Yes because there should have been terms of notice or a probation period.

28064212

tringle wrote: »

Yes because there should have been terms of notice or a probation period.

There is no minimum required notice if you've been working for an employer less than 13 weeks. 13 weeks to 2 years, minimum notice is 1 week.

Joffrey

I was on liveline yesterday talking about it. Here's one e-mail I got off bank of ireland

All parties have completed xxxxxxxxxx - Offer Letter.

Hi,

As discussed by phone, we're delighted to confirm that you have been successful in your application. Enclosed is our Offer Letter for your attention.

Please note: No Contract of Employment will issue until all requested documents have been submitted to us.

Regards,
Bank of Ireland Recruitment Team


I don't see any point in me pursuing this, it was only a 6 month probationary contract and I don't know what the best case scenario could realistically be. It just is bad from on their behalf. They asked me my notice period and if I would be good to start on the 26th. When I emailed them about my start time and uniform etc, then and only then did they ask if I had a degree. I replied that my whole cover letter and interview had been about my customer service experience over a degree. The person I was in contact with said "sorry this was only brought to my attention last week" so after they knew I wasn't getting the job they just left it until I mailed them for details and long after I handed my notice in, I could have been left unemployed.

But anyway I got my old job back, a week of working outside in this weather!

professore

So let me get this straight - an obviously smart and hard working young man who presumably beat off lots of Level 8 degree holders you are fighting hard to get a crappy job that will slowly destroy your soul - that pays barely over minimum wage?

You have seen how they "care" for their employees already and how you would be treated if you got this job. And they probably have a team of HR people telling everyone how wonderful and lucky they are to work with them.

Forget about them. Go to night or part time classes - change jobs if the hours in your current job don't suit - and get yourself some sort of technical qualification or a trade qualification - if you are good with people get into a sales role and you will make way way more than 23K and be a lot happier as a result. Hell pretty much anything pays more than 23K if you have any sort of qualifications or experience. OR if you are of an entrepreneurial bent, do that instead. The world is your oyster, even if it doesn't look like that now.

And you've learned the lesson early - banks are terrible full stop.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

Sirsok

Took redundancy after 6 years with bank of ireland, held every role from call centre worker to branch loan officer, worked my way up, and I never had a sense of progression in there. You are lucky, horrible place that has no value for the staff they employ!

Ohmeha

I do know it's standard for companies to request ID, copies of qualifications etc. before contract is issued so they probably are covered but it's still a total shambles of communication from the HR dept to leave any impression on the candidate that they 'had' the job being told of start dates. Unacceptable.

You dodged a bullet. I've a close friend stuck in there and all they say the company is totally disorganised with alot of problems and it's all about is cost cutting. Lots of talented staff leaving/looking to get out due to poor pay structures/career progression prospects - in the improving economy that job would have been a stopgap not a career

Merrymonday

Joffrey wrote: »

I was on liveline yesterday talking about it. Here's one e-mail I got off bank of ireland

All parties have completed xxxxxxxxxx - Offer Letter.

Hi,

As discussed by phone, we're delighted to confirm that you have been successful in your application. Enclosed is our Offer Letter for your attention.

Please note: No Contract of Employment will issue until all requested documents have been submitted to us.

Regards,
Bank of Ireland Recruitment Team


I don't see any point in me pursuing this, it was only a 6 month probationary contract and I don't know what the best case scenario could realistically be. It just is bad from on their behalf. They asked me my notice period and if I would be good to start on the 26th. When I emailed them about my start time and uniform etc, then and only then did they ask if I had a degree. I replied that my whole cover letter and interview had been about my customer service experience over a degree. The person I was in contact with said "sorry this was only brought to my attention last week" so after they knew I wasn't getting the job they just left it until I mailed them for details and long after I handed my notice in, I could have been left unemployed.

But anyway I got my old job back, a week of working outside in this weather!

Have you considered applying for clerical officer in the public/civil service? You don't need a degree and with all your customer service experience you're just what they are looking for. I think there's a new campaign starting soon. Pay is not great to start off with but you have other benefits like flexi time, job security etc. and you could combine it with further study if you wanted to. It's a long process to apply and can take from a couple of months to years to complete depending in how you do in their tests but it's easy enough to apply. Check out publicjobs.ie for more info.

tuisginideach

a Job as a 'Welcome Advisor' - is that the poor employee who stands between the doors and all the automated services, apologising constantly for the fact that the bank couldn't care less about its customers and wants you to interact only with a machine? And they require a Level 8 degree for that????? Ridiculous!

wally1990

Joffrey wrote: »

My cover letter and interview both times I clearly stated I had no degree but 12yrs of customer experience. They offered me job over the phone, told me when I was starting and how much notice I had to give my current employer so I could be available, email congratulations with documents of address, passport etc to send in, an email back after it was completed that all criteria had been filled etc.

I would say they didn't to their job properly.

I have rent and insurance to pay and potential unemployment, it's a bit of a big deal.

Based on the above

I don’t blame you
In my opinion I would have handed in my notice too based on the above
Let’s be realistic here I think most people would

Joffrey

Merrymonday wrote: »

Have you considered applying for clerical officer in the public/civil service? You don't need a degree and with all your customer service experience you're just what they are looking for. I think there's a new campaign starting soon. Pay is not great to start off with but you have other benefits like flexi time, job security etc. and you could combine it with further study if you wanted to. It's a long process to apply and can take from a couple of months to years to complete depending in how you do in their tests but it's easy enough to apply. Check out publicjobs.ie for more info.

Yeah I have applied for those positions, nothing yet.

Gone for a few positions with AIB, they only require a decent leaving cert for some roles.

I'd of loved that job, I work doing outdoor security. It's horrific, anything would be an improvment. I was working 2 jobs previous simultaneously to this, one in a funeral home and one doing doorwork 3 nights a week. I did the latter because the funeral home only guaranteed 30hrs a week, but sometimes i'd get home at 5am and be up at 6.30am to go wash a hearse and was burnt out. This job seemed like the wage would keep me in accomadation and a decent wage and not be so bad. It's a nightmare.

yosser hughes

Joffrey wrote: »

Yeah I have applied for those positions, nothing yet.

Gone for a few positions with AIB, they only require a decent leaving cert for some roles.

I'd of loved that job, I work doing outdoor security. It's horrific, anything would be an improvment. I was working 2 jobs previous simultaneously to this, one in a funeral home and one doing doorwork 3 nights a week. I did the latter because the funeral home only guaranteed 30hrs a week, but sometimes i'd get home at 5am and be up at 6.30am to go wash a hearse and was burnt out. This job seemed like the wage would keep me in accomadation and a decent wage and not be so bad. It's a nightmare.

Was the job with BOI actually through CPL?

Joffrey

No it was internal. I applied throught the BOI website and interviewed in one of their branches.