Death of Billy Graham

Nick Park

Billy Graham, the noted evangelist, has died at age 99.

“Someday you will read or hear that Billy Graham is dead. Don't you believe a word of it. I shall be more alive than I am now. I will just have changed my address. I will have gone into the presence of God.” - Billy Graham

uck51js9zml2yt

Not a truer word ever spoken.

J C

A good Christian man gone to meet his Saviour ... after a long and successful life ... saving people for Jesus Christ.

Quote:-
"Billy Graham has preached the message of Christ’s freedom and forgiveness around the world, reaching over 200 million people in more than 185 countries. He’s had the privilege of leading hundreds of thousands of people to pray to receive Jesus Christ into their lives as Lord and Savior."

Matthew 25:34-40 New King James Version (NKJV)
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

Jellybaby1

Sad to hear this, he was a great age. Pity he didn't get to the big 100. I heard him speak back in the early 1970's when he came to Dublin. I think he spoke at the RDS, the place was packed to the rafters and we could only get into an ante room where it was relayed on a screen, but afterwards he visited each area and was applauded lengthily. He was the greatest Christian speaker I've ever heard. So inspiring. I began reading his biography some years ago, it was a heck of a tome and I didn't get too far into it. It seems he was very cosy with Richard Nixon in the early days before it all blew up in Nixon's face. I'd say Billy Graham was so disappointed that he had had anything to do with him. Irreplaceable.

NinetyTwoTeam

J C wrote: »

A good Christian man gone to meet his Saviour ... after a long and successful life ... saving people for Jesus Christ.

Yes he was very successful. He earned over 25 million as a minister not including millions in real estate which were classified as church properties for tax dodging purposes. But I'm sure he did it all for Jesus. And it's not like Jesus ever had anything bad to say about rich men, except for that they've little chance of entering the kingdom of God, and the hassle he gave the money changers.

Though there's also a chance I'm wrong about him hoarding obscene amounts of cash, it was reported in the news media, which according to Graham was just a cartel run by Jews.

A true Christian if there ever was one.

jelutong

A true fraud.

splinter65

Bob_Marley wrote: »

A decent Christian that was interested in Christianity and ecumenism, instead of making sectarian claims and spin against Catholics, he will be missed.

Absolutely. For a southern baptist he completely bucked the trend re demonizing the Catholic Church
RIP

Kristopherus

jelutong wrote: »

A true fraud.

Evidence, please.

kneemos

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

Yes he was very successful. He earned over 25 million as a minister not including millions in real estate which were classified as church properties for tax dodging purposes. But I'm sure he did it all for Jesus. And it's not like Jesus ever had anything bad to say about rich men, except for that they've little chance of entering the kingdom of God, and the hassle he gave the money changers.

Though there's also a chance I'm wrong about him hoarding obscene amounts of cash, it was reported in the news media, which according to Graham was just a cartel run by Jews.

A true Christian if there ever was one.

Americans don't seem to have a problem with their preachers being wealthy.
Used to be a reality type show on years ago about a preacher and his family,huge mansion and lavish type lifestyle. Always struck me as odd as a young fella.
The success is good mentality or just because they have loads of followers they must be right or something.

J C

jelutong wrote: »

A true fraud.

That's a bit of an oxymoron !!!

J C

kneemos wrote: »

Americans don't seem to have a problem with their preachers being wealthy.
Used to be a reality type show on years ago about a preacher and his family,huge mansion and lavish type lifestyle. Always struck me as odd as a young fella.
The success is good mentality or just because they have loads of followers they must be right or something.

It is an error that some Christians (and other people) make ... that we must be impoverished to be 'true' Christians. We can be rich ... but not allow our riches to be the dominant force in our lives. Money is important so that we can pay our debts ... and get good things done.
Like Jesus says below ... Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Matthew 6:30-34 New International Version (NIV)
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

kneemos

J C wrote: »

It is an error that some Christians make ... that we must be impoverished to be 'true' Christians. We can be rich ... but not allow our riches to be the dominant force in our lives. Money is important so that we can pay our debts ... and get good things done.
Like Jesus says below ... Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Matthew 6:30-34 New International Version (NIV)
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Indeed. No doubt they can preach as well as the next man,it's the difference in mentality really that's interesting.
Someone this side of the pond living in a mansion and driving luxury motors you would immediately think cult.

Nick Park

kneemos wrote: »

Indeed. No doubt they can preach as well as the next man,it's the difference in mentality really that's interesting.
Someone this side of the pond living in a mansion and driving luxury motors you would immediately think cult.

If someone is a best-selling author, then I wouldn't be fazed at them being wealthy. That's how book royalties work.

Billy Graham wrote 33 best-seller books, some of them selling multiple millions of copies. He was, quite obviously, wealthy. But he certainly didn't live an ostentatious flashy lifestyle.

J C

A rich person can live a miserly, selfilsh, wealth-focussed life ...

or they can see money as just a means to a Christian end. I believe that Billy Graham was the latter.

J C

One of Rev Graham's speech's on salvation and Hell

Jellybaby1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4TMuee7Ir8

“He’s alive”
I’ve given my life not for a dead Christ, but for a living Christ, and he’s given me a song to sing. He’s given me a flag to follow. I have reason for existence. I know where I’ve come from, I know why I’m here, I know where I’m going. Do you?” - Billy Graham

J C

kneemos wrote: »

Americans don't seem to have a problem with their preachers being wealthy.
Used to be a reality type show on years ago about a preacher and his family,huge mansion and lavish type lifestyle. Always struck me as odd as a young fella.

Here are the man's own words on the topic of wealth and Christianity:-

“There is nothing wrong with men possessing riches. The wrong comes when riches possess men.”

“If a person gets his attitude toward money straight, it will help straighten out almost every other area in his life.”

“When wealth is lost, nothing is lost; when health is lost, something is lost; when character is lost, all is lost.”


... and these wise words summarise our relationship with God ... and our fellow man:-

“The will of God will not take us where the grace of God cannot sustain us.”

“It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict, God's job to judge and my job to love.”

NinetyTwoTeam

Shouldn't the only man's words on the subject be those of Jesus Christ? Not some crap Graham came up with to justify his obscene hoarding of wealth?

He did not, as another poster said, 'just see money as a means to an end'. He used his position as a minister as a means to acquire wealth and to dodge taxes on that wealth. Same as L. Rob Hubbard.

And if you think most of his wealth came from book sales, you don't know much about publishing and how royalties work. He didn't write Harry Potter. He became wealthy through tax free donations and tax free real estate which he hoarded.

Nick Park

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

And if you think most of his wealth came from book sales, you don't know much about publishing and how royalties work. He didn't write Harry Potter. He became wealthy through tax free donations and tax free real estate which he hoarded.

Actually, Billy Graham received a salary from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. The LA Times reported that salary to be $150,000 per year.

Donations to the BGEA, like donations to Amnesty International or any other registered charity or non-profit, are not personal wealth. The same goes for buildings owned by the BGEA. No doubt it's nice to be able to stay for free in a house owned by the organisation, but it isn't personal wealth.

No, he didn't write Harry Potter, which is why his total estate at death was only $25 million, as opposed to the $20 million per year that J.K. Rowling earns. But he did with a number of best sellers. Indeed, most authors can only dream of achieving Billy Graham's number of book sales. One of his books 'Just As I Am' stayed on the NY Times bestseller list for 18 weeks. Seventeen of his titles sold more than 500,000 copies each. A conservative estimate would be over 50 million book sales in his lifetime.

As for my not knowing how publishing and royalties work - I probably know more than you, since I own a small publishing company and am also a not-very-successful author (12 books published to date, but nowhere near giving up my day job).

In the US, an author of a non-fiction book can expect to receive royalties of 10% rising to 15% once sales hit certain levels. Based on Billy Graham's books, that would equate to $1.50 - $2 per book sold.

$25 million of an estate sounds like a lot of money to most of us. But for someone living on a comfortable salary with free housing for decades, moderate success in pensions and investments, combined with royalties from tens of millions of book sales, it hardly represents excess.

Billy Graham did his job very well indeed. Millions of us admire him and appreciate him for that. He never went for the hideous excess or manipulative fund-raising techniques of the con-men that are a curse on Christianity. His finances were always open to scrutiny and transparency. I think your begrudger would be better directed elsewhere.

uck51js9zml2yt

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

Shouldn't the only man's words on the subject be those of Jesus Christ? Not some crap Graham came up with to justify his obscene hoarding of wealth?

He did not, as another poster said, 'just see money as a means to an end'. He used his position as a minister as a means to acquire wealth and to dodge taxes on that wealth. Same as L. Rob Hubbard.

And if you think most of his wealth came from book sales, you don't know much about publishing and how royalties work. He didn't write Harry Potter. He became wealthy through tax free donations and tax free real estate which he hoarded.

You will of course provide proof of this in the very near future!

J C

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

Shouldn't the only man's words on the subject be those of Jesus Christ? Not some crap Graham came up with to justify his obscene hoarding of wealth?

He did not, as another poster said, 'just see money as a means to an end'. He used his position as a minister as a means to acquire wealth and to dodge taxes on that wealth. Same as L. Rob Hubbard.

And if you think most of his wealth came from book sales, you don't know much about publishing and how royalties work. He didn't write Harry Potter. He became wealthy through tax free donations and tax free real estate which he hoarded.

American Tax Law allows the incomes of charities and not-for-profit organisations to be tax free ... so please be man enough to withdraw your erroneous statement that Rev Graham "used his position as a minister as a means to acquire wealth and to dodge taxes" ... when he did nothing of the sort !!!

All the rest of your post is begrudgery and 'sour grapes' ... that says more about you ... than it does about Rev Graham.

We already know that some anti-christians would prefer if Christians and Christianity didn't exist at all ... but freedom of religion laws ensure that they won't get their way on this.

J C

Nick Park wrote: »

Billy Graham did his job very well indeed. Millions of us admire him and appreciate him for that. He never went for the hideous excess or manipulative fund-raising techniques of the con-men that are a curse on Christianity. His finances were always open to scrutiny and transparency. I think your begrudger would be better directed elsewhere.

Very true, Nick.
Rev Graham was a good Christian man who honoured the Lord his God ... and loved his fellow man, as himself.

The begrudgers need to pick on somebody else ... Rev Graham is beyond reproach.

antiskeptic

J C wrote: »

The begrudgers need to pick on somebody else ... Rev Graham is beyond reproach.

I sincerely doubt that anyone is beyond reproach. Go straight to heaven, do pass GO, do not sit before the judgement seat of Christ.

homer911

For those who are interested, Billy Graham's funeral will be streamed live on billygraham.org from 3pm Irish Time today

J C

antiskeptic wrote: »

I sincerely doubt that anyone is beyond reproach. Go straight to heaven, do pass GO, do not sit before the judgement seat of Christ.

The reason he will go straight to Heaven, is because he, like many other people at his altar calls, is an undeserving sinner ... that was Saved by Jesus Christ.

The reason he is beyond reproach in his dealings with his fellow man ... is because he was ... but he wouldn't have got into Heaven for these works.

J C

Some notable quotes from media reports of Rev Graham's funeral:-

"(Rev) Graham will be buried next to his wife in a memorial prayer garden at the library, with his grandchildren serving as pallbearers. His pine plywood casket was made by inmates at the Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola. The grave marker reads: “Preacher of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.”

"The Rev Billy Graham’s children remembered “America’s Pastor” on Friday as someone so thoroughly devoted to spreading the Gospel that he lived his life at home as he preached it in stadiums, with a personable humility and an unwavering focus on the Bible.

As his oldest son told a funeral congregation including Donald Trump and vice-president Mike Pence: “There weren’t two Billy Grahams.”

(Rev) Graham’s adult children – all speakers or preachers in their own right – recalled being taught by their parents how to read scripture aloud and deliver sermons, but also taking quiet walks with their father and receiving his plainspoken wisdom."

"(Rev) Graham believed in heaven and hell, and that hell is reserved for the wicked, his son said.

“The world with all its political correctness would like you to believe there are many roads to God,” he said. “It’s just not true.”

Franklin Graham’s four siblings also made brief remarks at the funeral. His sister, Ruth Graham, spoke of dreading going to her father’s home after she ran away from her second husband.

“You don’t want to embarrass your father,” she said. “You really don’t want to embarrass Billy Graham.”
She said her father was waiting for her when she arrived home. “He wrapped his arms around me and said ‘Welcome home.’ ” There was no blame, just unconditional love, she said.

J C

Here is a video of the lying in state of Rev Graham in the US Capitol Rotunda in Washington DC. The fourth time a private citizen has received this honour.

Nick Park

J C wrote: »

the lying in state of Rev Graham in the US Capitol Rotunda in Washington DC. The fourth time a private citizen has received this honour.

The last time a private citizen was so honoured was Rosa Parks in 2005 - another Christian whose strong personal faith changed the lives of so many others.

J C

Here is the essence of becoming a Christian ... choosing Jesus Christ.
Rev Billy Graham at his peak.

Quote:-
"Indecision in itself is a choice ... not to decide is to decide not to."

Quote:-
"Decisions are made whether we make them or not. Time decides if you will not ... and time always decides againt you. There is a lonely arena in the depths of your heart where the greatest battle of life must be fought alone ... that's your decision about Christ."

As a Biblical Creationist, I don't accept everything that Rev Graham believed ... but I respect his sincerity ... and his achievements at winning people for Jesus Christ.

J C

Nick Park wrote: »

The last time a private citizen was so honoured was Rosa Parks in 2005 - another Christian whose strong personal faith changed the lives of so many others.

A powerful Christian woman ... who fought inequality ... and racism ... and won.
Quote:-
"Rosa Louise McCauley Parks (February 4, 1913 – October 24, 2005) was an African American civil rights activist and seamstress whom the U.S. Congress dubbed the "Mother of the Modern-Day Civil Rights Movement". She is famous for her refusal on December 1, 1955 to obey bus driver James Blake's demand that she relinquish her seat so a white man could sit in the row.

Quotes
"People always said that I didn't give up my seat because I was tired, but that isn't true. I was not tired physically, or no more tired than I usually was at the end of a working day. I was not old, although some people have an image of me as being old then. I was forty-two. No, the only tired I was, was tired of giving in."
Rosa Parks: My Story, p. 116, Rosa Parks and James Haskins (1992)

"I did not want to be mistreated, I did not want to be deprived of a seat that I had paid for. It was just time... there was opportunity for me to take a stand to express the way I felt about being treated in that manner. I had not planned to get arrested. I had plenty to do without having to end up in jail. But when I had to face that decision, I didn't hesitate to do so because I felt that we had endured that too long. The more we gave in, the more we complied with that kind of treatment, the more oppressive it became."

kieranwaldron

Nick Park wrote: »

Billy Graham, the noted evangelist, has died at age 99.

“Someday you will read or hear that Billy Graham is dead. Don't you believe a word of it. I shall be more alive than I am now. I will just have changed my address. I will have gone into the presence of God.” - Billy Graham

Billy Graham taught the false doctrine of the immortal soul which is found nowhere in the Bible. If you want to know what happens to the dead, go to this link on the Internet: https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4987/t/are-the-dead-really-dead-

Nick Park

kieranwaldron wrote: »

Billy Graham taught the false doctrine of the immortal soul which is found nowhere in the Bible. If you want to know what happens to the dead, go to this link on the Internet: https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4987/t/are-the-dead-really-dead-

One of the more tasteless responses I've seen in an obituary thread.

pauldla

Nick Park wrote: »

One of the more tasteless responses I've seen in an obituary thread.

I have to agree. A bit like drunkenly crashing a funeral and declaring that the deceased owed you a fiver before announcing that your friends friend had the best pole-dancing club in town and inviting everyone to go there afterwards.

kieranwaldron

Nick Park wrote: »

One of the more tasteless responses I've seen in an obituary thread.

I did attack the false doctrines of Billy Graham while he was alive, I see no reason to change my mind now that he is dead. Any true evangelist should adhere to the Bible in his teachings and preach nothing else !

Delirium

MOD NOTE

I understand that this thread was to pay respects/ celebrate the life of Billy Graham. Essentially a digital Book of Condolences.

If posters wish a more general discussion about Billy Graham, there's nothing stopping you starting your own thread. Please don't derail this thread.

Thanks for your attention.

Hotblack Desiato

Delirium wrote: »

If posters wish a more general discussion about Billy Graham, there's nothing stopping you starting your own thread.

There is, though.