Rifle licence 17hmr

FoxShooter

I put in the application a few weeks ago and recieved a letter today from the super saying

"Dear sir

With referance to the above i wish to inform you that i have reservations in relation to your suitability in holding a firearm

In accordance with natural and constitutional justice i wish to give you an opportunity to address me in person in relation to the reservations i hold"

I dont no what these "reservations" could be. This is my first gun but i have been shooting my whole life and put that on the application. I was never in trouble with the law either. I rang the office and will be going in for a meeting with the super.
What do you think this is about?

Wadi14

You said you have been shooting your whole life, maybe he has concerns about what and where you have been shooting if you have never held a licence for a firearm.
But as you said you wont know until you meet him.

alanmc

Could be anything OP. Could be something you put on your FCA1 that needs clarification. Could be something omitted. Seeing as it's your first application, it could be the firearm competency section. Could be security.

This is all really just speculation though. Until you meet, it's Schrodingers license application.

Hope it works out for you.

Cadpat_cowboy

Relax bud after what happened in Florida last week there probably just double checking everyone

FoxShooter

Cadpat_cowboy wrote: »

Relax bud after what happened in Florida last week there probably just double checking everyone

No i went down to him and he told me he has a policy that he doesnt give rifles to 16 year olds and he said he would give me a shotgun instead and come back to him in 2 yrs about the rifle

BattleCorp

FoxShooter wrote: »

No i went down to him and he told me he has a policy that he doesnt give rifles to 16 year olds and he said he would give me a shotgun instead and come back to him in 2 yrs about the rifle

He has admitted to you that he has an illegal policy so. He's making up his own law instead of applying the law that is actually in place.

solarwinds

Its not official unless he states in writing on what grounds he is refusing you. I think he might not be too willing to put pen to paper as that is not legitimate grounds for refusal in my opinion.

BattleCorp

FoxShooter wrote: »

No i went down to him and he told me he has a policy that he doesnt give rifles to 16 year olds and he said he would give me a shotgun instead and come back to him in 2 yrs about the rifle

Have you received a written refusal? I wouldn't be overjoyed with the thought of a refusal on my record because of the Super's attitude.

Cass

solarwinds wrote: »

Its not official unless he states in writing on what grounds he is refusing you.

Hence the reason for the meeting, to avoid having the application go through the official procedure and to avoid having to issue a written refusal.

I think he might not be too willing to put pen to paper as that is not legitimate grounds for refusal in my opinion.

Its completely illegal on a number of issues:

• The Super is exceeding his authority by ignoring the Firearms Act and trying to impose a non existent law.
• The Super's blanket ban policy of not issuing rifles to anyone under 18. (Supreme court, Dunne-v-Donohue IIRC)
• Making the OP apply for a firearm (shotgun) he does not want or need would be a fraudulent application.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Have you received a written refusal? I wouldn't be overjoyed with the thought of a refusal on my record because of the Super's attitude.

It wouldn't come to that, but if it did i'd sooner have the written refusal than a "nod and wink" from the Super.

The written refusal can only state one thing, the Super won't issue the license because the OP is under 18. If the Super tries to refuse on other grounds he MUST give reasons for it. If the OP had the refusal in writing and brought it to court he can rest assured he would be going straight from the court house, after the case, to the RFD to pick up his new rifle.

solarwinds

"Dear sir 

With referance to the above i wish to inform you that i have reservations in relation to your suitability in holding a firearm "

Considering this is the only official communication so far with the op and it states " holding a firearm".
Is it a stretch to assume that if the op persists with his rifle application the refusal will include a lot more than his age.
I personally would proceed and if refused so be it, at least you could then challenge it.
As far as a refusal on your record, i wouldnt be to concerned about that just state the reason as to why you were refused "that the super said i was too young".

Cass

solarwinds wrote: »

Considering this is the only official communication so far with the op and it states " holding a firearm".
Is it a stretch to assume that if the op persists with his rifle application the refusal will include a lot more than his age.

The OP said above:

FoxShooter wrote: »

No i went down to him [the Super] and he told me he has a policy that he doesnt give rifles to 16 year olds and he said he would give me a shotgun instead and come back to him in 2 yrs about the rifle

I personally would proceed and if refused so be it, at least you could then challenge it.

Exactly. Tell the Super you want the application sent through the official process, logged on PULSE, and if he is going to refuse that he'll [the OP] expect a letter of refusal with the reasons for refusing shortly threafter.

As far as a refusal on your record, i wouldnt be to concerned about that just state the reason as to why you were refused "that the super said i was too young".

If the OP gets the refusal with his age listed as the only or one of the reasons for refusal then the OP has an excellent case to bring to court. If the license is granted via direction from the judge to the Super or directly by the court then the refusal is void.

BattleCorp

There is another way around this but it would involve spending a few extra quid.

Buy a cheap shotgun for €50. Get the licence for it. Then apply for the .17 hmr. The Super can't then say you are too young or unsuitable for a firearm seeing as he has already licenced one to you already.

Cass

BattleCorp wrote: »

Buy a cheap shotgun for €50.

And €80 for the license and possibly a safe so another €100.

Get the licence for it.

A fraudulent application? I can see it now:

"FCA1 - Reason for firearm: Super said to get this because he won't give me the firearm i want".

Then apply for the .17 hmr. The Super can't then say you are too young or unsuitable for a firearm seeing as he has already licenced one to you already.

The Super never said the OP was unsuitable for the rifle or even a firearm (as is obvious by his intent to license a shotgun), just that he [The Super] doesn't issue rifle licenses to anyone under 18. So even if he [the OP] gets the shotgun he'll still have to wait till he is 18 according to the Super's illegal version of the law.

solarwinds

Nope.
Plough on and apply for what you want. At 16 you will be setting a bad precident with your super. Stand up to him now and let him see you know your rights to apply for a liscence for whatever gun you have reason for.
Put the ball back in his court and call him out on it.

FoxShooter

BattleCorp wrote: »

He has admitted to you that he has an illegal policy so. He's making up his own law instead of applying the law that is actually in place.

Ye i will try get the refusal in writing

FoxShooter

solarwinds wrote: »

"Dear sir 

With referance to the above i wish to inform you that i have reservations in relation to your suitability in holding a firearm "

Considering this is the only official communication so far with the op and it states " holding a firearm".
Is it a stretch to assume that if the op persists with his rifle application the refusal will include a lot more than his age.
I personally would proceed and if refused so be it, at least you could then challenge it.
As far as a refusal on your record, i wouldnt be to concerned about that just state the reason as to why you were refused "that the super said i was too young".

I have already put the application through the local garda station a few weeks ago and i got called down by the super for a meeting then he refused me but didnt do it in writing he only said it was because of my age and offered me a shotgun licence instead

solarwinds

He could have offered you a cf pistol but its not what you want.
Id follow up again with your application and let all know you wish to proceed with it as it stands or itll find its way filed in the bin.

Vegeta

Could you come to a compromise with the Super. Get an older family member licensed and you co-license?

Everyone above is correct, what he is doing is not correct procedure or legal. Going down the court route though is difficult and expensive. By the time that is processed you'll probably be old enough to just get the license from him.

Cass

Vegeta wrote: »

Going down the court route though is difficult and expensive.

Not so much anymore.

File an appeal doesn't cost much and sometimes this is enough to bitch slap some sense in the offending Garda. The case is as clear cut, in favour of the OP, as any i've seen, and there is always the option to go for costs (whether they're awarded or not is another matter).

cavan shooter

If your in the NARGC ring Chris Gavican. He maybe able to help you out. Last year they signed a memorandum....(don't mention the logo....) and also the fund will assist you i think there is now €750 towards legal advise.