Issue with teenager

MICKEYG

Sorry, at a loss here and looking for advice.
We have a teenager (18 and a half) in the house who is extremely abusive to his mother and I and this is not changing having gone on for many months.
He has two younger brothers and we are very worried about the effect this is having on them.
Some days are fine but he is likely to blow up at any time once he does not get his way and this is very stressful to us all.
At this stage I have had enough and am wondering what my options are. I would like to throw him out and get our lives back. I am not sure where he will go but maybe will straigthen him out.
He is in first year in college but I don't know what else to do. We don't deserve this.

ellie1

Have you a relative you could send him to stay with?

December2012

Are you at risk? You can get a barring order if that’s the case.

However if not then don’t do something drastic ye yet. Maybe counselling would be a first step ?

zoobizoo

How long has he been like this?


Had it anything to do with him moving from school to college.....?

njs030

Who is the parent of the child? If its not you what does his mother want to do?

K.Flyer

Have you either of you ever tried to speak with him to try to find out what has him feeling the way he is.
Or maybe mediation or counseling to find what is bringing up his aggression towards his mother.

jimgoose

This kind of thing is to be expected from a five-year-old "acting out" for some reason that needs to be teased out of him or her, but this fella is a grown man, we use our long words, our indoor voices, and unless we want a shot into the butt of the ear we do not conduct ourselves in a threatening or abusive manner. Speak to him, discuss this behaviour with him, depending on how you get on there explain to him that this sort of carry-on will not be tolerated and he could be looking at moving out or even getting the Gardaí involved - adult, remember?

woodchuck

Are you his father? The way you're talking him, I'm guessing not.

You say this has been going on for months and that he recently started college. I don't think that's a coincidence. His behaviour is likely a symptom of a bigger issue going on at college. I'm not saying that's an excuse for his behaviour, but it would make sense to try and address the root cause of the issue. Talking to him might be more productive and compassionate than making him homeless...

MICKEYG

Thanks all. I am his father and I am married to his mother so no complications there.
The behaviour started before college, originally I thought it was just normal teenage angst and then Leaving Cert stress but it has continued on so not sure if one single issue but rather ongoing lack of self awareness and respect for others.

I have to say I am so tired of this that I just want rid of him (maybe this will make him see the light) but fully acknowledge that throwing him out is the last resort.
Will try talking to him again but he does not want to know. He thinks we are always in the wrong. I suppose we are responsible as we raised him but I have two others to worry about too.
I thought we did a good job, gave him every head start in life we could, sacrificed our own luxuries for a private school etc. Didn't feel we spoiled him but we obviously missed something somewhere.

silverharp

could he move out to student accommodation, even a Monday to Friday arrangement? it might another financial drain but the space might do ye all good. Or even the mention of might make him see how fed up you all are.

bigpink

Lay down the law
He should not abuse his mother and a woman
He’s getting a 2nd chance otherwise he has to go

The Pheasant2

Talk to him? Calmly explain the effect his absusive behaviour is having on his mother and yourself and what will happen if it continues. There could very well be issues going on in his life that he doesn't feel he can tell you about. It seems strange that he'd become so full of anger for no reason.

Odelay

Is he taking drugs?

MICKEYG

Odelay wrote: »

Is he taking drugs?

I don't think so but when does any parent know for sure.
He is heavy into sport and checks everything he takes (once refusing Panadol as it was on a banned list) so I am leaning towards not. Not a big drinker either from what I see.

zoobizoo

MICKEYG wrote: »

The behaviour started before college, originally I thought it was just normal teenage angst and then Leaving Cert stress but it has continued on so not sure if one single issue but rather ongoing lack of self awareness and respect for others.

I am just wondering if it might be that he was happy and content in school and that he has found the transition to college to be too much for him? He doesn't want to come across as afraid / scared and you guys are the only ones who he can control / dominate?

Is he happy in college?

Is there anyway you could get him to talk to a counsellor / therapist to get to the route cause of the issue?

K.Flyer

It could be anything, he may be in some sort of trouble which he is too afraid or embarrassed to talk about. He may be a victim of bullying himself and is taking out his angst at home. It may be relationship or sexuality issues.
Keep in mind that it may be also a medical problem.
Whatever it is, you need to talk With him, not At him.
If you care for him, as a Father I am sure you do, let him know, let him know you Want to help him whatever the problem is and that whatever it is, you will be there for him.
These things can take time to sort out, if you want them to, but you have to work with him, but be patient and prepared.

December2012

MICKEYG wrote: »

I don't think so but when does any parent know for sure.
He is heavy into sport and checks everything he takes (once refusing Panadol as it was on a banned list) so I am leaning towards not. Not a big drinker either from what I see.

Steroids?

Fakediamond

What was the method of communicating in the family growing up? Was there lots of shouting or anger? Was the parenting style confrontational? If it was a fairly relaxed household then I would agree with others that the root cause might be drugs/external pressures etc. But if it was a tense angry home then he’s probably just aping that now that he’s old enough to fight back. Either way, it needs sorting for everyone’s sake. Individual or family therapy might be the first step. You all need to start communicating maturely and it won’t happen without a neutral person to guide the process.

MICKEYG

Thanks all for your help.
Would you be able to recommend someone/ some company to counsel or mediate. I don't know where to start.
Thanks again.

Big Bag of Chips

Have a chat with the GP. They are your best bet. We can't give recommendations here. For a start we cannot verify that any poster is who they claim to be and also a counsellor that worked well for one family might not be what another family need. But definitely look for a family therapist rather than individual. You could all do with guidance, this isn't solely his fault so he shouldn't be sent off to counselling to 'fix' him.

Also, steroids might be worth considering if the anger and aggression is only a recent thing.

circadian

December2012 wrote: »

Steroids?

Immediately thought this if he's sports focused and acting irrationally. Although, he's refused panadol as it's on the banned list so....

Does he have a girlfriend/boyfriend? Maybe a relationship is strained and he's lashing out at home.

MICKEYG

Will sit down with him tonight and ask all these questions. If that does not reveal anything I will do some research with GP on counselling.
If he wont partake in that then I don't know where I go. It cant go on like this, I have a wife and two kids to look after too.

Thanks again for all your advice. I will keep you posted.

zoobizoo

From my memories of being a teenager, sit down talks were awful and never got the desired results my parents wanted. "how are things?" "FINE".... "any issues?"...... NO.... and so it went.......



Would you take him out for a a drive - easier to chat while you're both staring ahead.


Does he have an uncle he gets on with or Godfather who he might be more inclined to open up to?


I found out my niece was being bullied when I took her for a spin one day. I was talking generally around school etc and friends and she just opened up.

silverharp

zoobizoo wrote: »

From my memories of being a teenager, sit down talks were awful and never got the desired results my parents wanted. "how are things?" "FINE".... "any issues?"...... NO.... and so it went.......



Would you take him out for a a drive - easier to chat while you're both staring ahead.

I have the best chats with my son when we are driving so can confirm

Loveinapril

zoobizoo wrote: »

From my memories of being a teenager, sit down talks were awful and never got the desired results my parents wanted. "how are things?" "FINE".... "any issues?"...... NO.... and so it went.......

I don't think this is how the conversation should go (having been subjected to these sorts of chats in the past! Ugh!).

OP, you should frame the whole conversation as "we are three adults/ we need to discuss this like adults, etc.). Acknowledge that things are tough in your relationship at the minute and you want to fix things and that you love him. Come at it from a place of mutual respect not scolding. Talk about real examples of behaviour and how it makes you feel. You and your wife should speak about your own issues, not each others. Try to get him to see his behaviour, like "I asked you to put your dishes in the dishwasher and you told me to f.ck off and then slammed the door". Ask why he acted like that and is there a better way to frame requests so he doesn't feel like you are nagging or something. He may be better at certain times a day so maybe giving him a bit of space in the mornings, for example. Ask him how you can improve your own behaviour too, and reference something negative you do ("i know i shouldn't shout at you") to make sure he doesn't feel like you are just getting on at him. And don't sit next to your wife, one of you sit beside him. That age is so difficult but i get how hard it must be for you all. I work with teenagers with behavioural issues and a huge thing for them is feeling like they are not listened to so try to hear what your son is saying without your defenses up.

listermint

MICKEYG wrote: »

Will sit down with him tonight and ask all these questions. If that does not reveal anything I will do some research with GP on counselling.
If he wont partake in that then I don't know where I go. It cant go on like this, I have a wife and two kids to look after too.

Thanks again for all your advice. I will keep you posted.

Just for clarity OP


You have a wife and three kids.

Don't forget that , it seems you are creating distance on one of them and I'm sure that amplifies the problems.

Do you think your son doesn't notice , if you go on about him this way in a forum I'd imagine he can pick up on it in daily life too.

MICKEYG

Sorry, came across wrong. I realize I have three kids and have never picked between them. My meaning was "two other kids".

woodchuck

listermint wrote: »

Just for clarity OP


You have a wife and three kids.

Don't forget that , it seems you are creating distance on one of them and I'm sure that amplifies the problems.

Do you think your son doesn't notice , if you go on about him this way in a forum I'd imagine he can pick up on it in daily life too.

I agree with this. OP I know you said it was just a slip of the tongue, but even from your first post I genuinely didn't even think he was your son. The way you spoke about him, he could've been a step child you were willing to put up with until he turned 18, but then wanted him out of the house.

I don't mean to be accusatory btw. But as a complete stranger, I'm picking up on a very strange attitude here the way you talk about him. So I can only imagine how your son is picking up on this in real life.

So I'd be very careful how you speak to him. Personally I'd try to express how worried I am about his change of attitude and that you want to help... however I'm not 100% that is actually how you feel? (again, no offense intended, but it seems you're more concerned with having an easy life than figuring out what's wrong with your son) I know you're at your wits end, but you shouldn't even be considering kicking your 18 year old son out on the street...

thierry14

Feel for you OP

Terrible situation to be in

At the end of the day you can do all the talking and counselling you want, but we are still just animals

Alpha has to insert dominance, your home, your rules

Your son at 18 thinks he can be the alpha

In the animal kingdom the challenger gets put down by the alpha and peace and harmony are restored

You need to show your son who's boss, sometimes there is no other way

The Pheasant2

thierry14 wrote: »

Feel for you OP

Terrible situation to be in

At the end of the day you can do all the talking and counselling you want, but we are still just animals

Alpha has to insert dominance, your home, your rules

Your son at 18 thinks he can be the alpha

In the animal kingdom the challenger gets put down by the alpha and peace and harmony are restored

You need to show your son who's boss, sometimes there is no other way

I'm not a parent. But this doesn't sound like good advice.

shesty

I'd love to know how that poster thinks that can be done with an 18 year old adult....

TresGats

thierry14 wrote: »

Feel for you OP

Terrible situation to be in

At the end of the day you can do all the talking and counselling you want, but we are still just animals

Alpha has to insert dominance, your home, your rules

Your son at 18 thinks he can be the alpha

In the animal kingdom the challenger gets put down by the alpha and peace and harmony are restored

You need to show your son who's boss, sometimes there is no other way

Na mate, thats dogs.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Look up his college website and see what free services- gp or counselling are available to students

Odelay

MICKEYG wrote: »

I don't think so but when does any parent know for sure.
He is heavy into sport and checks everything he takes (once refusing Panadol as it was on a banned list) so I am leaning towards not. Not a big drinker either from what I see.

Just thinking about this again. What banned list is paracetamol on? I cannt find any. I wonder is his cautiones a screen to give the impression he would never touch anything stronger?
As I understand it drug testing for amateur teenaged sports is not consistent if there at all. It would not be unusual for a teenager to put up a false distain for something....

njs030

thierry14 wrote: »

Feel for you OP

Terrible situation to be in

At the end of the day you can do all the talking and counselling you want, but we are still just animals

Alpha has to insert dominance, your home, your rules

Your son at 18 thinks he can be the alpha

In the animal kingdom the challenger gets put down by the alpha and peace and harmony are restored

You need to show your son who's boss, sometimes there is no other way

By 18 you're long past the stage of telling your child what to do and should be at a stage that you can talk about issues like adults and resolve them.
For whatever reason this has broken down in ops home but laying down the law to an already agressive 18 year old will make the situation worse.

Op you didn't answer the question about the previous problem solving in your home and its an important one? Is he acting how he's been taught to act in the past?

Dial Hard

TresGats wrote:

Na mate, thats dogs.

This nonsense was debunked even for dogs long ago.

thierry14

Dial Hard wrote: »

This nonsense was debunked even for dogs long ago.

With pets maybe

Not working dogs

MICKEYG

njs030 wrote: »

By 18 you're long past the stage of telling your child what to do and should be at a stage that you can talk about issues like adults and resolve them.
For whatever reason this has broken down in ops home but laying down the law to an already agressive 18 year old will make the situation worse.

Op you didn't answer the question about the previous problem solving in your home and its an important one? Is he acting how he's been taught to act in the past?

We have had some issues in the past but not very often. We aren't perfect parents but always thought we were fair.
For the most part it is a calm and happy house but there were one or two times in the past when things did get heated. That hasn't happened for a long time though.
Do you think that there is some lingering problem here or are you saying he is acting as he has been taught? If the latter I am not so sure.

December2012

It is and was your job to make sure he doesn’t turn out as he has. You need to fix it. He can’t.

It sounds like you realise you don’t know how to fix it. You’re concerned (or else you wouldn’t have posted here) so you need to get some sort of professional guidance and develop the right tools and techniques now and coach him
Through this phase of life

njs030

MICKEYG wrote: »

We have had some issues in the past but not very often. We aren't perfect parents but always thought we were fair.
For the most part it is a calm and happy house but there were one or two times in the past when things did get heated. That hasn't happened for a long time though.
Do you think that there is some lingering problem here or are you saying he is acting as he has been taught? If the latter I am not so sure.

If it's not a generally shouty house then it must be a problem within himself or externally.

I think talking to him would be a good idea but not in a parents vs child way, the going for a drive idea is good or if he's close to a cousin, uncle etc maybe they could try and find out what's happening?

College is such a hard transition. Is he managing study and a social life OK? Does he have enough money for everything he needs and is he making friends?

Group counselling would be good if you can get to a point he wants to go.

wiggle16

I know I'm not a mod, but I feel it should be said if it hasn't already: there seem to be a few posts implying some fault on the part of the poster (ie, that this lad is acting how he has been taught to, that the OP is somehow distant as a parent, is their home one where there is a lot of shouting etc) and I don't think that's helpful at all. It's the OP's son who is misbehaving, and the OP is looking for a solution and hasn't given us any reason to speculate about if this is somehow his fault. This lad is 18, not a baby.

OP, I don't have much advice to offer. The only thing I can say is that, although I completely understand the temptation to throw him out for a night (and he completely deserves it if I'm honest...), I would only use that as an absolute last resort - for the simple reason being that he will hold it against you and will convince him that you're the bad guy, and you won't get through to him.

There is obviously something going on in the background with him that you are not aware of, whether this is drugs, sexuality or something else, but this doesn't give him license to behave like this.

Some sort of group counselling as mentioned above is definitely the way to go. In the meantime, if he will not regulate his behaviour then I would not go on supporting him beyond the basics - if he's not working, don't give him money; if he gets lifts to his matches/sports stuff, knock that on the head. Any privileges like that, if you haven't already, make sure he knows they're all stopping until he engages with you and his mother. I completely agree with the other posters that counselling is the solution, but you cannot put up with that behaviour either. His mother and siblings live there too and the younger two also need to know that bad behaviour isn't rewarded. But again, unless he gets violent, kicking him out should be the absolute last resort.

Best of luck OP. I hope this improves for you soon.

njs030

wiggle16 wrote: »

I know I'm not a mod, but I feel it should be said if it hasn't already: there seem to be a few posts implying some fault on the part of the poster (ie, that this lad is acting how he has been taught to, that the OP is somehow distant as a parent, is their home one where there is a lot of shouting etc) and I don't think that's helpful at all. It's the OP's son who is misbehaving, and the OP is looking for a solution and hasn't given us any reason to speculate about if this is somehow his fault. This lad is 18, not a baby.

That's not what was meant at all, it was asking a question about the household that people are allowed to do to get a better picture if the op doesnt mind answerinh.

You're right though you're not a mod so would you mind reporting posts instead of back seat modding? It's not very helpful.

wiggle16

njs030 wrote: »

That's not what was meant at all, it was asking a question about the household.

You're right though you're not a mod so will you report posts instead of back seat modding?

I'll disagree with you on what was implicit in the household question, it's subjective. I think some people are attempting to portion blame on the OP and I don't think that's fair.

Backseat modding? I'm not going to report posts that aren't breaching a charter, or abusive, and I'm not going to ask a mod to enforce my point of view. I'm saying blaming the OP isn't helpful, and since it hasn't been said, I felt the need to say it.

qwerty13

I have to say that I second the poster that said they wondered if he was your son, or a stepson that you find it hard to bond with. You just sound very detached from him.

Is there a possibility that you feel differently (not just now) about him compared to his other siblings, and that he’s picked up on that over the years, and resents it? Or maybe that favouritism was shown by your or your wife to the other children? Is there a big age gap between him and the other kids, might there be a weight of expectation on his shoulders that you & your wife have mellowed with the other kids?

I’m only clutching at straws here, it’s very hard to know. It does seem to me that even thinking of kicking him out is a very drastic solution. Are things really constantly that bad? I’m not criticising you - just that it’s unusual on this forum to hear of a parent saying that, even in the case of drugs abuse. I don’t know how bad your daily living with him is though. But is there a chance that you yourself are as frustrated / reacting badly as your son is? It just struck me that both of you are reacting very very strongly to something - possibly overreacting. We don’t know what your son is reacting to, but your reaction seems very strong, given the circumstances you’ve described (I do understand that the circumstances are very unpleasant- but surely kicking him out would be a really really last resort).

It’s a horrible situation to be in. I hope you can all gain some understanding of each other

njs030

wiggle16 wrote: »

I'll disagree with you on what was implicit in the household question, it's subjective. I think some people are attempting to portion blame on the OP and I don't think that's fair.

Backseat modding? I'm not going to report posts that aren't breaching a charter, or abusive, and I'm not going to ask a mod to enforce my point of view. I'm saying blaming the OP isn't helpful, and since it hasn't been said, I felt the need to say it.

I don't know about anyone else but I asked because children who are brought up in very tense households where there's a lot of shouting and anger eventually turn into that kind of person themselves.
It's helpful to know if that's the type of household the child grew up in because it shows a possible reason why he's acting this way. It's not blaming the op or his wife and it is trying to help him.
As that wasn't the case here, it's easy to put that aside and I did in my post and made suggestions.
Sometimes it is the parents fault and an 18 year old is still a child in an awful lot of ways!

That's exactly it, it's your point of view and other people have different ones so while you may have gone about it a different way we are all entitled to our own opinions without anyone other than mods telling us what to do aren't we?

wiggle16

njs030 wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else but I asked because children who are brought up in very tense households where there's a lot of shouting and anger eventually turn into that kind of person themselves.
It's helpful to know if that's the type of household the child grew up in because it shows a possible reason why he's acting this way. It's not blaming the op or his wife and it is trying to help him.
As that wasn't the case here, it's easy to put that aside and I did in my post and made suggestions.
Sometimes it is the parents fault and an 18 year old is still a child in an awful lot of ways!

That's exactly it, it's your point of view and other people have different ones so while you may have gone about it a different way we are all entitled to our own opinions without anyone other than mods telling us what to do aren't we?

I didn't realise you had posted about the house etc, my reply wasn't meant to be personal.

I never told anyone what to do. I said I think people blaming the OP is not helpful (and I'm not accusing you of blaming, by the way) because it doesn't offer the OP anything constructive with regards to a solution. It is good to have background of course, but some other posters were not so fair. Of course I understand that other people have different points of view which is why I would not go to a mod asking for mine to be enforced.

Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note:

njs030 wrote: »

You're right though you're not a mod so would you mind reporting posts instead of back seat modding? It's not very helpful.

Pot/kettle?

Can all posters please remember how and why Personal Issues works: To offer advice to the person posting asking for advice.

It really shouldn't be too hard. A poster comes asking a question, if you reply on thread then you are replying to that person. Keep that in mind and keep replies, civil and on topic please.

And if anybody has any issue with any post - report it.

Thanks
BBoC

looksee

If this were a houseshare, the other tenants would not accept having someone in the house who blows their top and is aggressive. That is the bottom line here too. He is an adult and has to learn to act like one. If the home example he has had growing up has been one of calm and reason then he knows how an adult should behave.

Have a talk with him and make it plain that you will not accept aggression in the house. He can go to family counselling with you, agree to improve his behaviour or find alternative accommodation - which you should, if you possibly can, help with. When the basic issue of lack of personal control has been deal with then you can try to sort out the reasons.