Judge forced to grant bail to teen as Oberstown full

the_syco

Hard labour to build another prison?

punisher5112

the_syco wrote: »

Hard labour to build another prison?

It would be interesting but it would be designed in a way they could escape.

Look up the black dolphin prison in Russia, each cell has 3 doors.

Nobody has ever escaped.

tayto lover

Boot Camp run by the army.
Good 10 mile hikes through rough terrain and up at 5 am and when they're very tired then bed at 8 pm.
No frills and just basic grub.
Leave them that they will fear going back.
They have no fear of what they're facing now.

punisher5112

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Military conscription.

It would worry me they would be trained how to kill when that may be what they are in for.

splinter65

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Military conscription.

I would be a supporter of that too.
And have no mercy or sympathy for them at all, boys or girls.

Geuze

Odhinn wrote: »

That costs money and would be categorised as rehabilitation. Given the hostility towards prisoners, short term thinking tends to rule the day, and as a result funding isn't there, to the best of my knowledge.

There are 256-272 staff in Oberstown.

https://www.oberstown.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Oberstown-Factsheet.pdf

At full capacity, it was envisaged that the Campus would accommodate 90 young people. The Campus is currently licensed to accommodate 48 boys and six girls.


https://www.oberstown.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/FINALOberstown-Summary-Report-of-External-Reviews.pdf

flas

The big problem is oberstown isn't a prison,and a lot of the prisoners are getting placed in with people who are not in for crimes as such. I know someone working there and he said its ridiculous,they are social workers who have been lumped with young offenders and the same with some of the residents who would be at risk kids of 14 and to have to share their space with 18 and 19 year old hardened criminals.its a cost saving exercise

AllForIt

I think 16 year olds should be treated like adults when they commit violent crimes. And yes I mean they should be put in adult prisons.

Omackeral

AllForIt wrote: »

I think 16 year olds should be treated like adults when they commit violent crimes. And yes I mean they should be put in adult prisons.

There's still hope for a 16 year old. Putting a child, and that's what they are at that age still legally, in with hardened and seasoned criminals is only gonna a) make them vunerable targets or b) harden them up and try to emulate the bigger heads and make them worse.

I have absolute sympathy for any workers in Oberstown House. They're so restricted in what they can do to discipline the young offenders. It's not a prison. It's a care home but some of the lads in it are big units and dangerous fcukers. It's a horribly grey area and the staff there have my respect. I work in a jail myself, a notorious enough one and I wouldn't fancy doing their job.

Billy86

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Odhinn wrote: »

Yep. Then he comes out a worse header than he went in. Great craic.

That's likely to happen anyway. Anyway it was meant ironically but nm.

Not really, oberstown is obviously geared towards young offenders and puts a lot of effort into reform and building them as people, quite different to how you treat an adult offender. I'm working in admin for tusla at the minute, and they genuinely do have some very good success with some very challenging teens. Of course not all by any stretch, but seeing a 16 year old do a complete 180 after just weeks in there following a solid year of nothing getting through to him was quite interesting, and that is only from last month.

I'm guessing this kid is too far gone for the likes of Crann Carrig or residential placements etc, it's a really tricky situation sadly.

AllForIt

Omackeral wrote: »

There's still hope for a 16 year old. Putting a child, and that's what they are at that age still legally, in with hardened and seasoned criminals is only gonna a) make them vunerable targets or b) harden them up and try to emulate the bigger heads and make them worse.

.

I respect your point of view on this especially in light of your background but I don't agree at all with your points of which I have heard many times before.

I think we have to stop thinking of the 14 to 18 year old bracket as poor little children that don't know any better and regard them as if they were our own offspring.

I think we too often underestimate the maturity (edit, maturity as in their max personal capabilty) and intelligence of teenagers in said bracket. What is the difference between a 30yo criminal and a 16 yo old one. Well the 30yo body has fully grown physically and have much more life experience. But is that really important because I think a persons level of intelligence is pretty much set from a very young age and as a corollary to that I think a persons understanding of what's right and wrong is set as well at a young age.

I recall whilst travelling on a London bus some years ago an incident where 2 young lads I would estimate to be around 14 punch another young lad somewhat older than them and stole his mobile phone leaving him with a bloody face. They got off the bus immediately after the incident before anyone could do anything. I don't believe in some kind of transcendent evil but what will stay with me from that incident was the look on the face of the ringleader of the pack of two. He looked pure evil to me and got off the bus looking fully satisfied and big about himself for what he just done. I'll never forget that face. I was shocked by the what I saw.

Of course in comparison to other crimes that incident might seem trivial, certainly in comparison to the knife crime that is going on in London recently.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/14/number-of-young-people-penalised-for-carrying-knives-at-eight-year-high. I think these things are happening because we're not dealing with the situation effectively, in other words we are too soft on them cause we can't bear the idea of being too hard on youngsters.

I think it is a mistake to underestimate the intelligence of those kinds of teenagers. To them it is a game that they choose to partake in. For their own enjoyment as well as material gain. They know full well that the law will treat them more leniently than they would an adult. They are not stupid. They know they can plead bad family home etc etc etc. They know they will be sent to a correctional institution for the sake of being reformed rather than punished. They know will get out by faking a bit of contrition and then out to do the same stuff again or even worse.

I take you point about being soft targets in adult prisons but I'm not convinced it would be acceptable practice even in a prison to pick on the younger ones but even if I agreed with that I would still say they should at least be sent to a adult-like prison with ppl of their own age group. I would give them shorter sentences though.

In fact I think that if they were the chances of them reforming are higher than what we see from the way they are dealt will currently and their victims might even feel a bit better about it.

scamalert

oh well lets see how long until the poor 16yr old bashes someones head in. then create another topic on how someone with 30 convictions is free to roam sitting for a week in catered cell.

Makes me wonder do these judges live on private island or smth, surely if it was them or some close family member such judge would seek to sentence such scum as adult to never see the daylight again.Prison system here needs likes corporations of US, locked in for decades and turning profit making crap for cents on the hour, surely millions made from that wouldnt hurt economy.