Judge forced to grant bail to teen as Oberstown full

MilesMorales1

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0212/940172-teenager-bail-oberstown/

A judge has been forced to grant bail to the same "out of control" teenager for a second time in less than a week because the State's main juvenile detention centre was full.

The 16-year-old appeared before the Dublin Children's Court last Wednesday charged over raids at two corner shops in which staff members were attacked and beaten with a pole and a glass bottle.

However, the then presiding judge had to grant bail because there were no places available in Oberstown detention centre to hold the boy, who cannot be named because he is a minor.

Should there not be somewhere else to send him? What if he hurts someone else now, because there was no room to detain him?

wes

Maybe release a less serious offender near the end of the jail term to make room?

Fr_Dougal

He needs a good kick up the hole.

Samuel T. Cogley

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

He needs a good kick up the hole.

Should of put him in the Joy would have got more than a kick up his...

JMNolan

I don't follow? Why is it the judges concern as to how full the prison is? Isn't that why we have a prison service? To worry about the prisons.

Odhinn

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Should of put him in the Joy would have got more than a kick up his...

Yep. Then he comes out a worse header than he went in. Great craic.

Samuel T. Cogley

Odhinn wrote: »

Yep. Then he comes out a worse header than he went in. Great craic.

That's likely to happen anyway. Anyway it was meant ironically but nm.

endacl

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

He needs a good kick up the hole.

Like Bishop Len Brennan?

Odhinn

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

That's likely to happen anyway.

It's possible, but we had a culture of "let them be raped" semi-officially here for decades - longer, I suppose, and I see no reason to continue it.

Hector Bellend

Put him in a cell with Tom Humphreys.

Might just cure him.

punisher5112

Odhinn wrote: »

Yep. Then he comes out a worse header than he went in. Great craic.

At 16 he has attacked people...

Next level is murder so he is on the right track for that.

He needs to be locked up either way.

I just hope he tries it again on the wrong person and the pole and bottle go very far up where the sun don't shine.

suicide_circus

Build more prisons. If someone isn't rehabilitated by prison then at least they pose no danger to the public for the duration of incarceration.

Grab All Association

Financial sanctions on his parent(s) welfare would put a stop to this. This child was probably raised like livestock for the rewards of the council house and child benefit paying for his parents drugs and alcohol. It’s time to stop subsidising this.

punisher5112

Grab All Association wrote: »

Financial sanctions on his parent(s) welfare would put a stop to this. This child was probably raised like livestock for the rewards of the council house and child benefit paying for his parents drugs and alcohol. It’s time to stop subsidising this.

I believe after 2 kids it should be ones choice and up to them to pay.

Prison inmates should be made work even if it is just breaking rocks get them doing something inside them walls.

You know the way everything is all about save the planet and green house gasses, why not put in the likes of treadmills and get them all to take turns walking etc to generate electricity at least for the prison.

€90k per inmate be cheaper to put them up in a hotel.

r93kaey5p2izun

Oberstown is now a complete failure. Totally inadequate in terms of both capacity and resources to cope with our young offenders. God help the people who have to put up with this lad's behaviour while he's left loose to run amok.

corner of hells

Stanley Panicky Rayon wrote: »

Oberstown is now a complete failure. Totally inadequate in terms of both capacity and resources to cope with our young offenders. God help the people who have to put up with this lad's behaviour while he's left loose to run amok.

I don't it's categorised as a prison , it's staffed by social care workers moreso than prison officers

r93kaey5p2izun

corner of hells wrote: »

I don't it's categorised as a prison , it's staffed by social care workers moreso than prison officers

I know. I'm very familiar with it.

Gatling

corner of hells wrote: »

I don't it's categorised as a prison , it's staffed by social care workers moreso than prison officers

It's a prison , carehome , detention center , mental health facility ,
It's a complete picnic basket of a facility ,

In this case mountjoy should be used especially when dealing with a dangerous and unstable person

corner of hells

Gatling wrote: »

It's a prison , carehome , detention center , mental health facility ,
It's a complete picnic basket of a facility ,

In this case mountjoy should be used especially when dealing with a dangerous and unstable person

Wasn't that the problem originally , keeping under 18s in Mountjoy ?

Odhinn

It has quite a small capacity - 70-80?. In addition, Trinity house has only about 24 places. Given that they are the only detention centres for youth now, it may well be its housing ranges of people it isn't suited for.

Gatling

corner of hells wrote: »

Wasn't that the problem originally , keeping under 18s in Mountjoy ?

Not 100% actually but it's highly likely ,
But I'm almost sure I read a case where a 19yo was sentenced to be detained at oberstown recently which makes zero sense to me

Odhinn

corner of hells wrote: »

Wasn't that the problem originally , keeping under 18s in Mountjoy ?

That and the hellhole of St Pats.

SEPT 23 1989

A good male role model and a slap is what he needs

Odhinn

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A good male role model and a slap is what he needs

And the shame is he'll probably only get the slap.

splinter65

From what released prisoners tell me, there’s far far too much hanging around all day in prison and young offenders institutions.
Every waking hour should be filled with some activity be it learning a trade or a craft or literacy classes, basic cookery, laundry, money management, civic and personal responsibilty etc
Proper stuff with exams that have to be passed and possibly a FETAC accreditation level 4 or whatever.
You can’t be considered for early release until you’ve achieved at least a passing grade.
Fine big young fellas in the whole of their physical health sitting around on the beds 1/2 the day driving themselves insane with boredom

Odhinn

splinter65 wrote: »

From what released prisoners tell me, there’s far far too much hanging around all day in prison and young offenders institutions.
Every waking hour should be filled with some activity be it learning a trade or a craft or literacy classes, basic cookery, laundry, money management, civic and personal responsibilty etc
Proper stuff with exams that have to be passed and possibly a FETAC accreditation level 4 or whatever.
You can’t be considered for early release until you’ve achieved at least a passing grade.
Fine big young fellas in the whole of their physical health sitting around on the beds 1/2 the day driving themselves insane with boredom

That costs money and would be categorised as rehabilitation. Given the hostility towards prisoners, short term thinking tends to rule the day, and as a result funding isn't there, to the best of my knowledge.

corner of hells

splinter65 wrote: »

From what released prisoners tell me, there’s far far too much hanging around all day in prison and young offenders institutions.
Every waking hour should be filled with some activity be it learning a trade or a craft or literacy classes, basic cookery, laundry, money management, civic and personal responsibilty etc
Proper stuff with exams that have to be passed and possibly a FETAC accreditation level 4 or whatever.
You can’t be considered for early release until you’ve achieved at least a passing grade.
Fine big young fellas in the whole of their physical health sitting around on the beds 1/2 the day driving themselves insane with boredom

See if you can get a hold of Joy of Joys , it's not particularly interesting but gives an insight into what opportunity's are available.
Motivation seems to be a problem , though addiction and mental impact too.

I work with a couple of ex prisoners who started their initial education in prison.

Captain Obvious

It's interesting to me that the result of having women at the helm of every part of the justice system is an overly soft system whereas before, when controlled entirely by men, it was overly harsh.

splinter65

Odhinn wrote: »

That costs money and would be categorised as rehabilitation. Given the hostility towards prisoners, short term thinking tends to rule the day, and as a result funding isn't there, to the best of my knowledge.

Oh I wouldn’t be patting them on the head either at all, I just think young healthy people should be physically busy for 8 or 9 hours a day. Everything costs money unfortunately, money we haven’t got....

Cookie_Monster

how full is full? Two, three, more to a room / cell? I'm sure they could have found space somewhere even if it was a bit crowded. but nah, lets just release him on bail so he can hurt more people and cause more destruction.

Fr_Dougal

splinter65 wrote: »

Oh I wouldn’t be patting them on the head either at all, I just think young healthy people should be physically busy for 8 or 9 hours a day. Everything costs money unfortunately, money we haven’t got....

Military conscription.