Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand" [** SPOILERS **]

Evade

GreeBo wrote: »

Maybe, but after almost a year is be expecting a few dings

Yeah, but it's nearly 300m long. Any dings we'd see from how far away the camera was would be more like a serious hull breach.

AllForIt

I enjoyed the first season overall despite a slow start for me but I found I didn't like voyager or DS9 at the start either.

I have to say I was a little disappointed with the last 10 mins of the season finale. Rather uneventful and was expecting a better cliffhanger.

ezra_

When will season 2 drop?

Goodshape

ezra_ wrote: »

When will season 2 drop?

They haven't said but best guess is early next year. I think filming begins in April.

Evade

Early 2019

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-boss-gets-candid-big-delays-season-2-1042520

fritzelly

Evade wrote: »

Early 2019

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-boss-gets-candid-big-delays-season-2-1042520

That's not good, especially after it took so long for season 1 to even get going (as in filming)
Wonder if they will have a longer season run - that would make up for it!

PhiloCypher

They completely bodged the whole Klingon war storyline with their extended Mirror Universe arc. The availability of Isaacs probably precluded it but it would have been far better to have had concluded the war in a satisfactory manner this season and pushed the Mirror arc into the start of the second season. The placement of a 4 ep mirror arc in the middle of a War was bizarre but could have been compensated for if Discovery had say 20 episodes to play with. But as things stood they had a mere 2 episodes in which to wrap it up, and wrap it up they did, in a wholly unsatisfactory manner. From handing Mirror Georgiu the captancy of Discovery, to the Jumping inside Q'onos, to L'rell bluffing her people into retreating by waving a pad that for all they knew held a recipe for Gagh, the last two eps stank of a Deus ex hail mary pass to wrap things up as quickly as possible so they had a clean slate going into season 2.

The thing is, to quote Benjamin Sisko, If a compromised conclusion to the Klingon storyline is the price that had to be paid to clear the decks for season 2 "I think I can learn to live with it , Because I can live with it" assuming they get back to old school Trek exploration next season but with Discovery's big budget prestige TV sheen that is.

Computer Erase personal log ....

AtomicHorror

GreeBo wrote: »

I would have thought the Enterprise would have been taken out by the Kilngons...unless they were busy off discovering space somewhere else.

I thought all ships would have been brought home for defence.

Although ships in Star Trek tend to move at the speed the plot requires of them, it's plausible enough to speculate that Enterprise and many other Constitution class ships would be on multi-year deep space assignment. That could potentially mean that returning to Federation space might be a journey of many months.

Evade wrote: »

The Constitution class is much newer than a lot of the other ships we've seen so I'd imagine they're more likely to survive in combat with the Klingons.

Relative to the Walker class (Shenzhou), it is new, but Enterprise is already 12 years old by the time of Discovery and the Constitution class design presumably some years older than that. Constitution class ships certainly seem tougher than their contemporaries, but we haven't seen any of them active in the war, which is why I tend to think they're mostly busy elsewhere.

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Relative to the Walker class (Shenzhou), it is new, but Enterprise is already 12 years old by the time of Discovery and the Constitution class design presumably some years older than that. Constitution class ships certainly seem tougher than their contemporaries, but we haven't seen any of them active in the war, which is why I tend to think they're mostly busy elsewhere.

Have there been any Starfleet ships shown besides the fleet at the Battle of the Binary Stars and the Discovery and Glenn?

AtomicHorror

Evade wrote: »

Have there been any Starfleet ships shown besides the fleet at the Battle of the Binary Stars and the Discovery and Glenn?

Gagarin, the ship that Discovery tried to save but failed. Think it was Walker class as well.

Evade

I suppose the reason they didn't want to show a Constitution class was because of the big reveal at the end of the season. I'd say they'll run into more in season two.

Something I'd like to see shipwise is the Columbia class that was proposed for Enterprise season 5.

AtomicHorror

Evade wrote: »

I suppose the reason they didn't want to show a Constitution class was because of the big reveal at the end of the season. I'd say they'll run into more in season two.

Something I'd like to see shipwise is the Columbia class that was proposed for Enterprise season 5.

Was that not just another NX class?

They were hoping to do a refit of the NX class which looked a lot more like a primitive Constitution class.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/d/d2/Drexler_Enterprise_NX-01_Refit.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141230104800&path-prefix=en

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Was that not just another NX class?

They were hoping to do a refit of the NX class which looked a lot more like a primitive Constitution class.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/d/d2/Drexler_Enterprise_NX-01_Refit.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141230104800&path-prefix=en

The refit NX was referred to as the Columbia class in some of the semi canon stuff.

pixelburp

Only now got to check out the episode. A very hurried ending by all accounts, once again the refrain is apt that it came off like the back half of season 1 was a hurried refit. The bomb gambit was dumb (without a dead man's switch it was a useless gesture), but Akiva Goldman is a terrible writer, so hey ho; it was all to serve what will likely be a reboot in season 2.

The enterprise cameo was cool, and looked fantastic, but it does potentially raise some tricky storytelling issues. Involving it has to include Spock and Pike, though given his father and step sister are aboard Discovery it'd be weird not to have some interactions.

And seriously, the snubbing AGAIN of captain saru was just crazy.

AtomicHorror

pixelburp wrote: »

And seriously, the snubbing AGAIN of captain saru was just crazy.

I dunno, I'm happier to chart his gradual rise (he's now Commander) than see the crazy insta-promotions of JJ-Trek.

Evade

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I dunno, I'm happier to chart his gradual rise (he's now Commander) than see the crazy insta-promotions of JJ-Trek.

JJ Trek's promotions were stupidly fast but Kirk made cpatain in ten years, a classmate of Rikers in less than eight, and one captain that met Picard on the planet in Conspiracy in even less time so I think Saru being promoted wouldn't be too out of the ordinary.

Mitch Connor

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I dunno, I'm happier to chart his gradual rise (he's now Commander) than see the crazy insta-promotions of JJ-Trek.

I think Saru becoming captain would have felt natural at the end of Season 1. We saw him partly fail in the role early in the season - but we saw him grow immensely as well, and step up towards the end of the MU arc.

I do feel the next Captain should be their 'forever' Captain - rather than going in to season 3 with another new Captain. If they look to promote Saru to the role at the end of next season I feel like the flow of events might feel a little disjointed/poor.

I do assume we did not see the new captain in the finale because they simply haven't hired them yet - but I do suppose that something could happen in the first episode that keeps Discovery from completing the journey and we see Saru step up again (and then keep the role).

pixelburp

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I dunno, I'm happier to chart his gradual rise (he's now Commander) than see the crazy insta-promotions of JJ-Trek.

It's nice he got promoted, but equally he has already proven himself in 'live' situations on a bunch of occasions in season 1, he certainly deserves the captains chair full time.

On another note: is this(one of) the first times the Enterprise is herself in distress and requiring assistance from others? Seems like in the past it was the other way around, understandably enough.

Rawr

Tristram wrote: »

Rubbish episode to end what was a very good season to that point. Like tuning into a completely different show. Very disappointing.

I was also disappointed a bit.

On a positive note, there's little doubt that this is the Prime Universe.
However, the Klingon War...the very thing I hoped through watching all of ENT, the thing that got me excited in the first place about Discovery, was an absolute snooze-fest.

Back in the 90's, we were treated to a massive CGI-tastic Dominion War, containing a real sense of a large and despite conflict for the survival of the Federation. They pulled it off.

Flash forward to now, we get one of the most defining conflicts of Star Trek's most well known enemy, and we get to see....next to nothing of it. There was talk of the Federation losing the war, there was talk of a massive invasion of Earth happening, there was a suggestion of countless worlds under the Klingon's thumb....but we are shown next to nothing. Don't get me wrong, the trip to the Terran Empire was fun and all (it almost always is), but that Discovery missed a trick here by not becoming a proper war-drama. Instead the pressed the cheat-code and bypassed much of the war.

Furthermore, for a ship at war I'm getting a bit of a Voyager vibe from Discovery. Nothing is broken and everything is essentially spotless. I'm not getting any sense of a "war" going on.

The massive Invasion of Earth consisted of 6 or 7 Klingon cruisers, and that was pretty much it. I had a hard time buying it. If the Klingons had planned an attack on an enemy capital, surly they'd try better than that!

Also, "End the War...because bomb". She managed to convince the Klingon Empire to just stop a war....because maybe there is a bomb somewhere? Really?!!

Finally, something seemed off about Micheal giving a moral lecture about the war to anyone. I know she is supposed to be the main character and all...but something just seemed very off about it. I think that would have better off without that scene.

Anyways, I did enjoy Discovery and if it does continue, I hope for the same quality we got mid-season, and not the mess that it ended with.

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

The enterprise cameo was cool, and looked fantastic, but it does potentially raise some tricky storytelling issues. Involving it has to include Spock and Pike, though given his father and step sister are aboard Discovery it'd be weird not to have some interactions.

And seriously, the snubbing AGAIN of captain saru was just crazy.

I was wondering if they would save themselves that continuity problem by putting in 1701's first captain Robert April. He's only ever appeared in the Animated Series, and thus could be cast with nearly everyone. Jumping right up to Captain Pike appears to present the with a headache that they could have avoided.

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

I was wondering if they would save themselves that continuity problem by putting in 1701's first captain Robert April. He's only ever appeared in the Animated Series, and thus could be cast with nearly everyone. Jumping right up to Captain Pike appears to present the with a headache that they could have avoided.

They're stuck with Pike because STD is set two years after the events of the Cage.

Antar Bolaeisk

It feels like a missed opportunity for them to have planted the bomb on Qo'nos instead of on Praxis. Their story about holes in the moon would have worked just as well or better with Praxis, the viewer would get to see an environment established but never seen and it would have tied neatly in to Undiscovered Country (albeit in a very dark way).

Rawr

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

It feels like a missed opportunity for them to have planted the bomb on Qo'nos instead of on Praxis. Their story about holes in the moon would have worked just as well or better with Praxis, the viewer would get to see an environment established but never seen and it would have tied neatly in to Undiscovered Country (albeit in a very dark way).

I kept thinking "Praxis" when the whole "blow up Qo'nos" plan came up.
Would have been a nice touch...but I get the impression that some of the writers were only kinda paying attention to canon of the show.

It has been established that Praxis exploding would make Qo'nos uninhabitable (thus the Klingon's push for peace after it did explode.) They could have simply re-used that idea...but then I guess they couldn't have the whole Orion place...which was so damned important to the plot :rolleyes:

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

It has been established that Praxis exploding would make Qo'nos uninhabitable

I don't know if this was intentional or not but Qo'noS' environment looked a lot more hospitable here that it did in TNG or DS9.

The_Valeyard

Evade wrote: »

I don't know if this was intentional or not but Qo'noS' environment looked a lot more hospitable here that it did in TNG or DS9.

An extra century of polution?

Evade

The_Valeyard wrote: »

An extra century of polution?

Praxis exploding. As I said I don't know if it was intentional given they've changed almost everything else about the look of Klingons stuff but if it was it was a good touch.

Gbear

It felt like a show that had a lot of love put into it, then it got cancelled so they rushed to finish it.

Then it got uncancelled. Then it got cancelled again.

There was a solid mid-season finish with the battle with the Klingon flagship.
That worked as its own series. In fact, I was surprised when I found out there were more episodes.

Then the mirror-universe happened and that had a solid, satisfying arc, albeit a short one.

Then the last two episodes looked like they needed to wrap things up.
Episode 14 was a non event and so was 15. They may as well have not happened.

The series probably needed another 2 or 3 episodes to wrap up the war in a way that satisfied. There was nothing really wrong up until episode 14. They just needed to get the Discovery back involved in the war, get a feel for the stakes again, get to see the crew in action without Lorca.

Instead it was a bit ****.

Good series on the whole. Hopefully they can get something more consistent for season 2.

The_Valeyard

Evade wrote: »

Praxis exploding. As I said I don't know if it was intentional given they've changed almost everything else about the look of Klingons stuff but if it was it was a good touch.

Ah yeah, was getting my timelines mixed up.

jmcc

A bit Ghostbusters 2016ish. Best part was the appearance of the Enterprise. It was like the writers spent more time pushing their political agendas than paying attention to what makes Star Trek such a generally strong franchise. Hopefully there will be a reboot for S2 without all the Snowflake crap and a concentration on strong characters and plots. The whole medals ceremony was a bit of a filler with an "and they all lived happily ever after" kind of ending. If they took a brave decision and dumped the Discovery and went for a new series based on the Enterprise, it might be fun.

Regards...jmcc

PhiloCypher

jmcc wrote: »

A bit Ghostbusters 2016ish. Best part was the appearance of the Enterprise. It was like the writers spent more time pushing their political agendas than paying attention to what makes Star Trek such a generally strong franchise. Hopefully there will be a reboot for S2 without all the Snowflake crap and a concentration on strong characters and plots. The whole medals ceremony was a bit of a filler with an "and they all lived happily ever after" kind of ending. If they took a brave decision and dumped the Discovery and went for a new series based on the Enterprise, it might be fun.

Regards...jmcc

The faults with the show have very little to do with "snowflake crap" . It was poor planning , the show was ticking along fine until the need to pay off a plot line saw them take a 4 episode vacation in the middle of a war arc leaving them with feck all time to resolves things satisfactorily. Its funny you use the term snow flake . Because I find the people who use that term are usually the text book definition of it. Looking to be offended by political agendas and sleights to their masculinity everywhere. Basically being the easily triggered "snowflakes they claim to hate.