Joey carbstrong

Mtx · 09-02-2018 11:28pm

Joey carbstrong is a troll, he is a militant vegan who loves the attention from news and radio . He knows he can make a career out of it and is doing well financially out of being provocative. Don't feed the troll.

Dakota Dan · 09-02-2018 11:41pm

Mtx wrote: »

Joey carbstrong is a troll, he is a militant vegan who loves the attention from news and radio . He knows he can make a career out of it and is doing well financially out of being provocative. Don't feed the troll.

The same as that gob****e earthling Ed, coming across as mild mannered in his videos that have actors playing the part of farmers, livestock auctioneers, meat factory workers etc. Does he honestly think people are that stupid.

Tar.Aldarion · 10-02-2018 1:04am

Deleted User wrote: »

This is mind blowing.

The best bit is "animals don't have emotions"

Dakota Dan · 10-02-2018 10:16am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The best bit is "animals don't have emotions"

I said bovines not all animals :rolleyes:

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 10-02-2018 1:40pm

They most certainly do have emotions. You're saying you've never seen a frightened cow, a happy calf, a cow grieving for her calf when it's taken away? Those are all emotions.

gozunda · 10-02-2018 2:09pm

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

Better argument for what? Your jumps in “logic” know no bounds Dan. It doesn’t matter what I say or tell you I’m simply not going to change your mind. You likened what Luke mentioned about AI of a cow being rape to a gynecologist raping women and the fact that if one is rape then the other must. That’s not what he was saying at all nor what he meant. Whether I agree with Luke or not on this point, women opt to go to a gynecologist to be examined. I don’t believe a cow opts in on AI.

The equivalence to gynecology stands imo. Do any animals opt for any type of veterinary treatment? Should we not provide health care to animals - wild - domestic or otherwise because they can't consent or "opt in"?

10-02-2018 2:15pm

Some extraordinary points of view in this thread.

The chasm is surprising me to the point that I don’t believe some people fully believe what they are writing.

gozunda · 10-02-2018 2:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some extraordinary points of view in this thread.

The chasm is surprising me to the point that I don’t believe some people fully believe what they are writing.

That could be said of both sides of the debate tbh. It would be helpful if you could be more specific ...

Dakota Dan · 10-02-2018 2:27pm

Darwin Modern Gingersnap wrote: »

They most certainly do have emotions. You're saying you've never seen a frightened cow, a happy calf, a cow grieving for her calf when it's taken away? Those are all emotions.

A cow grieving for her calf, I've seen on a few occasions where cows had twin calves and the cow purposely lie down on one of her calves to kill it, not much grieving there. I managed to save one calf after the cow had the wind knocked out of him. Frightened cows are just doing what a lot of animals do in nature fight or flight.

gozunda · 10-02-2018 2:28pm

Darwin Modern Gingersnap wrote: »

They most certainly do have emotions. You're saying you've never seen a frightened cow, a happy calf, a cow grieving for her calf when it's taken away? Those are all emotions.

The examples given by Dakota Dan described empathetic emotions where one being exhibits empathy towards another in this case - cattle. I would agree with Dan that cattle will bully sick herd members to the point of death. Cattle will also trample other sick animals to death such as wild birds in my experience.

This behaviour also happens in populations of wild cattle. A survival of the fittest reaction possibly or perhaps territorial behaviour.

10-02-2018 2:39pm

gozunda wrote: »

That could be said of both sides of the debate tbh. It would be helpful if you could be more specific ...

What debate ? There isn’t one.

Whatever chance I have engaging with someone when we broadly share the same opinion/idea but disagree and discuss the finer points but there is no chance of that here.

I genuinely think some of the comments on this thread are complete wind-up and if they’re not then I find them very worrying as they show a complete lack of what I’d consider to be a basic and innate intelligence.

gozunda · 10-02-2018 2:51pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What debate ? There isn’t one.

Whatever chance I have engaging with someone when we broadly share the same opinion/idea but disagree and discuss the finer points but there is no chance of that here.

I genuinely think some of the comments on this thread are complete wind-up and if they’re not then I find them very worrying as they show a complete lack of what I’d consider to be a basic and innate intelligence.

Thats not overtly helpful imo.

A debate / exchange of points of view if you will. A good idea in my opinion as long as the exchange / debate stays civilised and insults etc are not exchanged regarding other posters intelligence etc

As far as I'm aware many of what you would class as 'wind up comments' are put forward by posters who have real and daily interactions with cattle etc and are providing their experience to counter some of the other points of view posted.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 10-02-2018 3:48pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A cow grieving for her calf, I've seen on a few occasions where cows had twin calves and the cow purposely lie down on one of her calves to kill it, not much grieving there. I managed to save one calf after the cow had the wind knocked out of him. Frightened cows are just doing what a lot of animals do in nature fight or flight.

And I've seen a man punch a woman in the face, and a cat that a dog had torn to shreds, it doesn't mean people and dogs don't have emotions. You're thinking of morality or a high degree of empathy, but cattle certainly have emotions.

gozunda · 10-02-2018 3:57pm

Darwin Modern Gingersnap wrote: »

And I've seen a man punch a woman in the face, and a cat that a dog had torn to shreds, it doesn't mean people and dogs don't have emotions. You're thinking of morality or a high degree of empathy, but cattle certainly have emotions.

I posted this above which I think covers that ...

The examples given by Dakota Dan described empathetic emotions where one being exhibits empathy towards another in this case - cattle. I would agree with Dan that cattle will bully sick herd members to the point of death. Cattle will also trample other sick animals to death such as wild birds in my experience.

This behaviour also happens in populations of wild cattle. A survival of the fittest reaction possibly or perhaps territorial behaviour.

Dakota Dan · 10-02-2018 4:11pm

Darwin Modern Gingersnap wrote: »

And I've seen a man punch a woman in the face, and a cat that a dog had torn to shreds, it doesn't mean people and dogs don't have emotions. You're thinking of morality or a high degree of empathy, but cattle certainly have emotions.

You seem to be mixing up maternal instincts with emotions in cattle. Cows also reject calves, it might be a surprise to someone that doesn't be around cows but it happens.

http://www.beefmagazine.com/health/calving/understanding-maternal-behavior-helps-bonding-0201

Tar.Aldarion · 10-02-2018 4:51pm

At this point I don't think you know what emotions are. This is hugely studied, don't go around saying nonsense like cows don't have emotions, how would anybody take you seriously?

Dakota Dan · 10-02-2018 4:56pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

At this point I don't think you know what emotions are. This is hugely studied, don't go around saying nonsense like cows don't have emotions, how would anybody take you seriously?

So how long have you been working around cattle?

endacl · 10-02-2018 4:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some extraordinary points of view in this thread.

The chasm is surprising me to the point that I don’t believe some people fully believe what they are writing.

If you always believe what you post you run the risk of losing the Internet. Nothing's worse than being wrong online. Even being artificially inseminated by a cow. You do what you gotta. Like the 'baby cows' thing. I know nobody really thinks of calves as 'baby cows', but, y'know, ya gotta win the internet!

jive · 10-02-2018 4:59pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

So how long have you been working around cattle?

Not really relevant though is it? Or are you the only person qualified to comment on cattle behaviour/thoughts/emotions/etc. because you’re a farmer?

Tar.Aldarion · 10-02-2018 5:00pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

So how long have you been working around cattle?

Since I was a child for years, worked in a dairy too. My whole family are/were farmers on both sides.

Anyway, have a read instead of employing fallacies.

gozunda · 10-02-2018 5:01pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

At this point I don't think you know what emotions are. This is hugely studied, don't go around saying nonsense like cows don't have emotions, how would anybody take you seriously?

I believe it is the issue of emotions in relation to cattle which is generally under discussion. There have already been some clarifications between instincts e.g. maternal - reaction e.g. flight and empathetic emotions (not usual in cattle). Making it personal is not helpful imo.

gozunda · 10-02-2018 5:11pm

jive wrote: »

Not really relevant though is it? Or are you the only person qualified to comment on cattle behaviour/thoughts/emotions/etc. because you’re a farmer?

Well it is relevant to those who have posted and who can offer first hand experience of cattle and their behaviour in relation to their care and management in this country. A lot of which is pushed online relates to American farms and intensive rearing methods there. See link to American Article posted above. And yes cattle are cattle but differences in management is a huge factor in relation to observed behaviours.

jive · 10-02-2018 5:37pm

gozunda wrote: »

Well it is relevant to those who have posted and who can offer first hand experience of cattle and their behaviour in relation to their care and management in this country. A lot of which is pushed online relates to American farms and intensive rearing methods there. See link to American Article posted above. And yes cattle are cattle but differences in management is a huge factor in relation to observed behaviours.

But in relation to Joey Carbstrong he states they can’t consent, therefore management and care is irrelevant.

10-02-2018 6:18pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

You seem to be mixing up maternal instincts with emotions in cattle. Cows also reject calves, it might be a surprise to someone that doesn't be around cows but it happens.

http://www.beefmagazine.com/health/calving/understanding-maternal-behavior-helps-bonding-0201

All animals can reject a newborn, have seen it with dogs, cats, chickens and cows. Unfortunately have also seen humans reject their kids too.

I'm not vegan, the wife is since she was 16. As a vegan and vet nurse she has little time for people like the one highlighted by the op, but she also has little time for anyone who grandstands.

Then again the farming community don't really help themselves by having their own going on Irish TV spouting a load of rubbish about vegans, so much so that even the farmers journal had to state it was a right screwed up.

gozunda · 10-02-2018 6:28pm

jive wrote: »

But in relation to Joey Carbstrong he states they can’t consent, therefore management and care is irrelevant.

Well again that is the issue which is under discussion. I have previously queried whether cattle can consent to any medical care? Should we leave sick aninals die? What of non AI gynaecological problems a cow might have and require intervention - does that constitute rape?

And where cows are bulled (ie a bull services them) and they become pregnant is that ok then ie there is no 'rape'

Tbh considering Joey Carbstrong's background I can't see that he is in anyway an authority on cattle and their care, management and behaviour

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/09/peaceful-vegan-activist-joey-carbstrong-compared-dairy-farmers/

Dakota Dan · 10-02-2018 7:08pm

jive wrote: »

But in relation to Joey Carbstrong he states they can’t consent, therefore management and care is irrelevant.

He's an idiot and wouldn't know one end of a cow from the other. Getting consent from a cow is away with the fairies talk.

Dakota Dan · 10-02-2018 7:14pm

DubInMeath wrote: »

All animals can reject a newborn, have seen it with dogs, cats, chickens and cows. Unfortunately have also seen humans reject their kids too.

I'm not vegan, the wife is since she was 16. As a vegan and vet nurse she has little time for people like the one highlighted by the op, but she also has little time for anyone who grandstands.

Then again the farming community don't really help themselves by having their own going on Irish TV spouting a load of rubbish about vegans, so much so that even the farmers journal had to state it was a right screwed up.

I never said they wouldn't, I was just arguing that vegans would have you believe that all cows and calves have an inseparable bond. The farming community talking rubbish about vegans, that's laughable as vegans tell plenty lies about farming. Have you any link to where farmers said all this rubbish about vegans?

gozunda · 10-02-2018 7:17pm

DubInMeath wrote: »

All animals can reject a newborn, have seen it with dogs, cats, chickens and cows. Unfortunately have also seen humans reject their kids too.

I reckon the above is not up for question. However If I remember correctly what was being discussed was wether the issue of a cow 'grieving' is either emotion and / or maternal instinct

I'm not vegan, the wife is since she was 16. As a vegan and vet nurse she has little time for people like the one highlighted by the op, but she also has little time for anyone who grandstands.

I think the OP was attempting to canvas other posters about JC and his followers. Carbstrong comes across a bit of a nutter tbh

Then again the farming community don't really help themselves by having their own going on Irish TV spouting a load of rubbish about vegans, so much so that even the farmers journal had to state it was a right screwed up.

Didn't see that on TV

But ya alot of the debate/ exchange of views can get seriously derailed imo. Though imo anyone promoting death threats deserves the full weight of the law and consequences

10-02-2018 11:40pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I never said they wouldn't, I was just arguing that vegans would have you believe that all cows and calves have an inseparable bond. The farming community talking rubbish about vegans, that's laughable as vegans tell plenty lies about farming. Have you any link to where farmers said all this rubbish about vegans?

The Claire Byrne show I belive you'll find it on the player and YouTube.
More likely to commit crimes and suffer from brain diseases etc.

Dakota Dan · 10-02-2018 11:47pm

DubInMeath wrote: »

The Claire Byrne show I belive you'll find it on the player and YouTube.
More likely to commit crimes and suffer from brain diseases etc.

Well I suppose if you argue with stupid people they'll eventually bring you down to their level

Vegan milk substitutes lack iodine unlike cows milk which has been proven to lower IQ.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/most-milk-substitutes-are-low-in-iodine-heres-why-it-matters-83589

Joey carbstrong

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