Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984844#Comment_121984844

We're not disagreeing here unless we have different definitions of 'occasional use'. Taking the 120km a week user, at 15kWh/100km, that's 18kWh a week. Spread over seven days, that's about 2.5kWh a day. or three sessions of 6kWh. So a max of 3 hours on charge at a time. Or one hour in every 24. None of those scenarios are either sustained or excessive.

What is excessive is costing them over a grand for a unit that will get less than three hours use a week. That will never pay back.

As for safety, I am assuming a properly installed and protected circuit with a protected outdoor socket. Anything else is an accident waiting to happen, with or without a charger.

Edit: Anyway, I think we're going to start going around in circles at this point, so I'll leave it at that.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984648#Comment_121984648

The reason is that sockets wear over time and that wear means the contact between the plug and socket isnt as good as it was when new. Reduced contact means more heat. Yes, there's a temp sensor in the granny cable but if the heat is dissipating the other direction it can have serious consequences. Plenty pics online of sockets melting.

Also, a socket tends not to be on a dedicated circuit and so if its drawing the max and then you have something else on the circuit that starts up it could also cause a fire hazard depending on quality of the wiring.

You can negate that by ensuring its a good quality socket and regularly checking for heat yourself and successfully use a granny charger for years without issue but as a general rule its just safer to use a proper charge point and let the granny cable for emergency use. It is also what the car manufacturers even say in their literature about granny cables.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982884#Comment_121982884

that's the most important piece of info in deciding what tariff makes sense

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121984875#Comment_121984875

Oh thank God for that 🥵

I don't even have a granny charger, thank ****… actually I don't have a 3 pin outdoor socket either, win win.

Skyfloater

I have an electrician due tomorrow, and I want to make sure we're on the same page.

If the wall charger you get has a built in emergency cut off switch, do you still need a separate isolator switch within 2 meters?

Also, am I right in saying that if the run from the CU to the charger is under 20 meters(?) it's 6mm sq. But if it's longer, then 10mm sq should be used.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000475#Comment_122000475

The separate isolator is required.

As far as I know, 4mm cable is fine, but in your case, at least 6mm would be advisable for the 20M run. If they can run 10mm cable, all the better. The cost shouldn't be much more. The electrician will be the one with the knowledge. The 10mm cable will have a lower resistance and will save on electricity compared to a 6mm cable over that distance, hopefully paying for itself over time as well as being safer.

Skyfloater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000721#Comment_122000721

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about the 10mm sq. Sure why not, the cost difference is minimal.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000721#Comment_122000721

The difference in resistance on an AC circuit would be absolutely tiny if even measurable, it certainly wouldn't save any money. 10mm cable is quite difficult to work with compared to 6mm the electrician might not be that happy.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000475#Comment_122000475

A qualified electrician will know what he’s doing.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001516#Comment_122001516

And hate you for it at the same time 🤣

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001345#Comment_122001345

Resistance of 20m of 6mm cable is just 0.13 Ohm compared to only 0.076 Ohm of 10mm cable. So temperature dependent it's about 25-30% resistance difference. Will it make a big difference in the savings? No. Will it pay for itself? It's worth watching the electrician sweat to make their money. So on that front, it's priceless 😂

Seriously though, it's worthwhile if only a few quid extra, because you could then split off the 10mm if it's terminated into a junction box before going to the charge point. The extra beef on the line will allow the OP to utilise that down the line.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001544#Comment_122001544

Are you allowed to tap into the cable? I didn't think you were. I was thinking of getting an outdoor socket in addition to the CP, wiring it from the isolator would be the easiest place to connect it.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001769#Comment_122001769

After the grant is paid, you can get your electrician to add whatever else you want as long as it is done the right way. I could be wrong though, i'm not a leccy

crank_1975

I'm not sure if this is the right place so Mods feel free to move but I got the Circontol eHome charger installed 4 years ago and it has stopped working (red light flashing). I rang Electric Ireland (whoi I arranged the original purchase / install with) and the company they used for the installs (Smartzone) went into administration. I am struggling to find someone to come out and have a look at the charger and potentially advise on a repair and I don't want to have to replace. Has anyone got any contacts etc. that I could reach out to? I am in Meath.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009052#Comment_122009052

The manufacturer still has a website. Should be some reset instructions available .

https://circontrol.com/ev-chargers/evcharger-ehome-ehome-link/

AndyBoBandy

When the house tails need to be upgraded to 16sq in order to install a charge point, is that a job any reci electrician can do or is an ESBN job? If ESBN Is there a fixed price for the upgrade?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009052#Comment_122009052

https://circontrol.com/usermanual/manual-ehome-eng.pdf

That's the user manual. Looks like a short circuit to earth may be the problem.

If you are competent enough to isolate the power at the CU and open the charge unit, you could check to see that the terminals are secured in the unit. Over time, they can become loose. I just replaced an outdoor socket yesterday for the same reason. Loose cable was causing tripping and heating, so I isolated the circuit and replaced it with a brand new unit. If you see any signs of over heating at the terminal (brown, yellow staining etc), I highly recommend you have the unit replaced and leave it shut off until you do.

bunderoon

Getting a Zappi v2 installed soon.

CU is the other side of our bungalow to where I want the charger mounted on the Garage wall. 25m max from point to point (including slack) through the attics of house and unfinished garage. Will run 2 x Cat6 from charger to my comms cabinet. Zappi already wired with ethernet to cabinet and Eddi connects to Harvi wirelessly in ESB enclosure. Eddie in middle of house in hotpress.

These questions have probably been asked and answered multiple times, so apologies.

Q1 - As the run is over 20m, should it be best to run 10sqm Twin and earth? No need for SWA I would think as its all internal wiring. I want cable to go through the wall to rear grommet of charger so no cable is exposed etc. Charging will be done between 2am - 5am and probably overrun into 6am sometimes which is fine. EV BG Smart Plan.

Q2 - 32A RCBO at CU ? What should my Electrician use?

Q3 - Does the zappi need an AC cutoff switch mounted right beside the charger (New regs I hear)? If so, I would prefer it to be placed inside the garage <2m away through sliding door access. The cable will come down from the garage rafters down the wall anyway before going through the wall to the charger. Plan is to renovate garage in near future to home office. I'm conscious of insulation and heat of cable etc.

Have I missed anything?

Thanks in advance.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009460#Comment_122009460

Tails is RECI job not esb. You may need an updated Earth Rod. It has to be visible and accessible for compliance.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009578#Comment_122009578

1. Best to run 10mm. Internal, so T&E is fine.
2. 32A Yes
3. CP needs isolator. I don't know if it would be OK to have this inside the garage if the CP is outside. If the Isolator is outside, you should not have any exposed cable externally unless it's armoured cable at a minimum. I have seen some nice installs where the isolator is a black/grey colour and is butted up to the CP, so no cables visible.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009666#Comment_122009666

tails is partly a ESBN job and it’s a fixed price. A RECI can’t isolate the meter to disconnect the tails. Only ESBN can

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011281#Comment_122011281

so the reci will run the new cables to the meter and the consumer unit, but ESBN will connect the new tails into their meter? And then the reci swaps the cables at the consumer unit? So they’d need to be coordinated and be there together?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011281#Comment_122011281

Depends how old various new meters are getting keyed isolators pre tails. So not fully the case. From his image though appears isolator isn't there

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011349#Comment_122011349

It’s a real sham(e) that this wasn’t part of the smart meter roll out. Tails should have being upgraded with a isolater/breaker fitted.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011372#Comment_122011372

Agreed

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011372#Comment_122011372

Definitely. Strangely when my mother in law's house got a smart meter swap an isolator was fitted. Her meter is inside the front door.

AndyBoBandy

I’d actually cropped too much out of that photo…. Here's the full pic…

is this an isolator under the meter?

Haven’t a clue what the other box clamper on is either…

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011569#Comment_122011569

No isolator there. CT clamp device is for what looks like a CC128 meter.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011612#Comment_122011612

Thats interesting as I'm not aware of them having any device in the house that would require that type of meter..

So maybe from a previous owner? And when ESBN did come and replace the meter, they probably just assumed it was in use and replaced it?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122011638#Comment_122011638

Here is my recently upgraded tails awaiting ESBN connection and smart meter. Isolator was something I asked for as part of the tails upgrade and CU replacement.