Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119353025#Comment_119353025

This is going to catch some people later in the year where they buy a charge point online and find afterwards that it doesn't qualify for the grant.

And its going to knock a lot of the secondhand sales as most of those are dumb charge points that people are shifting on but will no longer qualify for a grant... e.g. the original ESB charge point that was grant funded will no longer be allowed under the new criteria, so you can't buy it secondhand and use it for your grant application. Its going to force everyone to go with more expensive charge points or forfeit the grant.

Like a lot of other government policy directions we are simply following in the UK's coat tails. They mandated smart charge points a while back.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355086#Comment_119355086

whats the perceived value of a 'smart' chargepoint? i know from my own - apart from being able to see it available via an app on my phone and receive software updates doesnt add much...

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355136#Comment_119355136

There are a few things but mainly

• dynamic load balancing to ensure your house doesn't get overloaded
• shifting the charging from peak hours to night time hours.... which the cars can do via their timers anyway but they want it in the charge points for some reason.
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• They cite other reasons like V2G but that is not necessary to qualify just yet, but they will probably make that mandatory at a later date when that technology matures.

Mike2006

Is there a list of triple-e approved chargers to date?

Kore specifically, where can I find out if the Tesla Gen 3 charger is triple-e rated??

I assume if you already have the approval granted but not yet hardware purchased or installed then the triple-e does not yet apply?

thanks,

Mike

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355136#Comment_119355136

they can work with dynamic pricing when it becomes available

better battery management, tell it what time you want it charged and it’s figure out the most efficient way. Rather than just pump out 7kw, it may put out 4kw or delay the charging.

better grid management, if there’s high demand between 1-3 am it will put off or reduce chargers.

if there’s excess RES between 1-3 am it can send all max load to the car

sumo12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355183#Comment_119355183

• shifting the charging from peak hours to night time hours.... which the cars can do via their timers anyway but they want it in the charge points for some reason

Unless you're the proud owner of a VW Group MEB vehicle - where the scheduled charging in the car doesn't work yet (open ended yet) I'm very glad I have scheduled charging in my ABB charger

slave1

Sceptic in me thinks the smart chargers aligned with smart meters are only heading down one road, an EV home charging tax

Manion

Smart meters cannot determine what the power is being used for. As for a reporting requirements for centralized tracking of charging from smart meters. In theory you could see a smart charger that is adjusting it's charging based on prices also reporting units units but We're the same country that health service was running Windows XP. The costs of any such IT project to implement a tax would dwarf the revenue and most likely fail due to privacy reasons and I don't mean GDPR which would allow tracking, I mean the right to privacy in your own home free from government monitoring.

I did heard the Brits are looking to bring in mandatory cut of switches for charging to protect the grid, again all this is one way traffic. A lot of homes in Ireland have smart tvs, yet we don't suspect that they will start narking us out to An post for failing to pay a license fee.

cromelex

I think that's probably the main point. If there's too much demand at any given time the grid could force your charger (well, all the smart ones) to half the amps, or even shut it down entirely if necessary.

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359520#Comment_119359520

Much easier to make tax based off the annual odometer reading. They already take your odometer reading as part of your NCT and I can see the NCT becoming aligned with the CVRT, i.e. due annually from date of registration. This would also catch anyone who is using agri-diesel on the road or who has access to solar, workplace or off grid charging.

What is more likely happening is if we look to the UK - whom we seem to follow almost blindly - where they have made it mandatory for all EV chargers sold since 1st July of this year to have a randomly generated start and stop delay, which must be adjustable and which must also incorporate future demand side response (or load shedding - stopping charge when grid load is too high):

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/1467/part/2/made

The idea is if everyone has set their car charger to start and stop at the exact same time, most likely at typical rate change times, in Ireland 2300 for nightrate or 0200 for EV rate, it will cause a sudden massive surge on the grid that will likely overload and trip out generators causing widespread powercuts. Whereas if the initial charge inrush is spread out randomly over a 10 minute (currently) window the generators can better react (a typical gas turbine plant can handle around a 10% load ramp per minute).

You then also have the likes of Octopus Energy in the UK who have an Agile tariff, whereby you tell them when you need your car charged by (e.g. 6am) and to what percentage (80%), but they ultimately control when to start/stop/throttle the charge process at half-hourly intervals throughout the day and night based on wholesale pricing - stopping when grid load (and pricing) is high and ramping up when grid load (and price) is low. Prior to massive gas price increases they also had an interesting feature whereby you could actually got credited to draw excess power from the grid.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362337#Comment_119362337

on our ei account they show a breakdown for appliances versus always on etc.. they seem to be somehow at least guess the appliance? always on, cooking, refrigeration, laundry, entertainment are the categories they show

UID0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362348#Comment_119362348

It doesn't have to be done with a network connection. All they need to do is mandate that for any chargers installed, that the charger automatically reduce the charge current if the grid frequency is below 50 and dropping and shut off at a specified lower frequency. This could be done similar to how inverter connection for PV has to have specific protection settings for Ireland. This would be more reliable than requiring an internet connection at the time of commissioning.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362407#Comment_119362407

I know you are just throwing it out there but ODO won't work, I'm charging off PV the past few months and there's also public/work charging so no way could "they" know how much electricity I'm using at home.

Heat pumps/miners/storage heaters use large amounts of electricity so from a Smart Meter perspective "they" are caught there too.

Last option is home charge point, this would need to differentiate between PV and Grid and as battery prices and home storage increases then charging from powerwalls too, plenty of us out there with 20kWh+ home batteries which can be used to "top" up the EV at night and charge again during the day when we are away from the house.

There is going to be a chasm in tax receipts given our fiscal policy on petrol/diesel taxation, "they" have to be laying the seeds to tackle EV charging "free" of tax......

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362792#Comment_119362792

All of the above is precisely why the odometer would work as a solution. You move to distance based taxation as opposed to flat rate based on perceived tailpipe emissions, or trying to difference someone doing an hour's charge vs running the dishwasher, washing machine and immersion at the same time.

You could do all of your charging for free via solar/wind/work and not spend a cent on electricity, but from a tax point that wouldn't matter (workplace charging and BIK implications aside) since if your odometer has increased by 25,000KM since it was read last year then you use your 25,000KM driven as the basis to calculate your motor tax. Where you charge and costs of producing the electricity to do so won't impact your motor tax.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362792#Comment_119362792

I know you are just throwing it out there but ODO won't work, I'm charging off PV the past few months and there's also public/work charging so no way could "they" know how much electricity I'm using at home.

They don't need to know. They can just decide to fill the tax gap based on your mileage. They don't have to care how you fuelled the car for that mileage. They can just dress it up as a tax on road usage (polluter pays principle). Using the ODO readings is a distinct possibility to be honest... it will make clocking more prevalent though and the logistics of how you sell a car on (solvable though).

slave1

Ah, gotya, the ba5t@rds

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362451#Comment_119362451

I did see CT devices advertised that look at the usage signature of an appliance and tell you which one is using the power anything less than 500 watts gets lumped together. They claimed accuracy was about 80%. I was unaware Irish smart meters had that capability. I guess then they could definitely get an idea of what power was being used by your charger, regardless of the charger being smart.

TitianGerm

Quick question in relation to charge points.

I have an EO Mini installed and it used to output a charge rate of around 6.5KW. I had to get the electric shower changed but now my charger only seems to max out at 5KW.

Could the new shower cause this or is it just coincidence?

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119365156#Comment_119365156

Is the shower running when you see the lower kw?

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119365605#Comment_119365605

Nope and that's what's throwing me. No shower and no oven on but the rate has dropped to 5KW when it used to be nearly 7KW.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119365878#Comment_119365878

Presumably the electrician didn't mess with the circuit powering the charge point and lower its max?

I'd say its a coincidence. Does that charge point have an app where you can change the amps? Maybe it has been turned down by mistake?

Other options are to try a different car and try your car on a different charge point to start ruling things out.

DaveyDave

How soon in advance did people buy their chargers? I should probably look into getting one fairly soon.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119365878#Comment_119365878

Might there be a firmware update. ?

recent changes you regulations in the UK led to firmware updates for some chargers , those on older firmware experiences slower charging

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119365993#Comment_119365993

He installed the new shower and put in a new RCBO (I think that's what it's called).

No app for the charge point as it's just the basic EO Mini and not the pro. There was no one at the charge point itself. I know there's a small dial inside the charger bit that's been set since day one.

I've an ID3 and Ioniq 5, both charge at 5.2KW. We've also tried an ID4 on it with the same result. All cars are charging at full speed on my neighbor and my father's chargers.

Edit: forgot to add a photo. Slot 12 is the shower and the EV Charger one is in a separate housing with a black EO box beside it.

KCross

Youve ruled out a few things there.

Maybe the power was cut to the charge point and it has somehow reset itself to a lower max current. Just guessing really as you seem to have ruled out a lot of the other possibilities.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366229#Comment_119366229

Ill flip the Isolator tomorrow and take off the front cover on the charger tomorrow and see if anything looks different.

It's not a massive issue anyway just annoying me that the rate seems to have dropped.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366312#Comment_119366312

I was thinking it might be a software setting rather than a physical switch inside (since you said the charge point wasn’t touched).

Maybe just try turning it off and on and try another charge?

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366376#Comment_119366376

Tried turning it on and left it off for over an hour already but no change.

I don't think there's a way to upgrade the software on this charger as I don't remember seeing a USB port or a card reader slot or anything like that inside it.

KCross

My final thought!… does the charge point have a CT clamp for load limiting?

Any chance that clamp got disturbed/moved when the electrician was doing his thing?

Im outta ideas after that.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119366557#Comment_119366557

I think the black EO box is a CT clamp. Don't think it was touched when changing the RCBO though.