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Irexit party yay or nay?

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  • 05-02-2018 10:33am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 15,354 ✭✭✭✭


    So with the Farage appearance at the rally in the RDS over the weekend in the news, what do people think about his assertion that there is a “gap in the market” in Ireland for an Irexit/eurosceptic political movement?

    Personally I think it would be no harm to have some dissenting voices regarding the EU in the body politic of Ireland. A check on the exuberant EU Uber Alles attitude of some in the mainstream parties perhaps.

    I wonder what their general appeal would be, I suspect something akin to one of the smaller parties like the Soc Dems or Greens possibly.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    It was sad to see some of the comments from the conference over the weekend, particularly from younger people, the usual nationalistic rubbish that has been trotted out over the last couple of years, 'make Ireland great again', Jesus lads do a bit of reading! Thankfully there isn't much traction yet for irexit, but things could change, I wonder will the Irish division of diem25 become a political party in the near future?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,602 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I can't see it happening. I don't think Ireland and the UK are remotely similar when it comes to justifying the existence of such a party. The Irish seem to be well aware of the benefits of being in the EU such as being able to attract US corporations, infrastructure projects and being in the single market. Inequality doesn't seem to be as pronounced as it is in the UK and there isn't really a glorious bygone era for Irish Eurosceptics to employ as a nostalgia tactic.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭weisses


    You only have to look whats happening in the UK right now
    Fianna Fail's Brexit spokesman Stephen Donnelly last night criticised the conference, saying: "The empty rhetoric on Irexit is similar to the nonsense sold to the British people in 2016."

    Which seems a proper reply
    People seeking tickets for the event online were required to confirm they agreed to terms and conditions that stated that the conference was "only open to supporters of an Irish Exit from the European Union".

    The terms also said: "Unwelcome interjections from the audience may result in removal from the event."

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/farage-tells-irexit-conference-eu-humiliated-ireland-36564549.html

    So you basically had a bunch of irexiteers engaging in a 2 hour circle jerk in the RDS

    If they are serious in starting a party it would be nice if they could actually engage in a proper debate


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    weisses wrote: »
    So you basically had a bunch of irexiteers engaging in a 2 hour circle jerk in the RDS
    Made even funnier by the fact that a speech headlined by someone staunchly British and "Britain First", finished with John Waters giving a Catholic, Republican, anti-immigrant speech to stir up the crowd.

    This is a group of people who have absolutely no idea about their place in the world except that they hate everything else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    weisses wrote:
    So you basically had a bunch of irexiteers engaging in a 2 hour circle jerk in the RDS


    I did find that odd alright, and I'd agree, if they want to be taken serious, open it up to the public. I was interested in going, but it was unaware of this clause


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,506 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    No problem with people campaign for it or most things, and no issue with the lack of debate as that isn't what this is.

    If the IDI host an event on Ireland's place in the EU or some party does run then that's the place for representation and debate. You don't have to have "The Vegan Society of Ireland" start off an event with how great meat tastes. United Ireland, rejoining UK, or EU membership (No, No, Yes), There's no automatically right answer that will always be right.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,466 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The National Party essentially espouse the values of UKIP and they've no support here. 0 elected representatives at any level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    So with the Farage appearance at the rally in the RDS over the weekend in the news, what do people think about his assertion that there is a “gap in the market” in Ireland for an Irexit/eurosceptic political movement?

    Comical nonsense. Something like 85-90% of Irish people think Ireland should be in the EU, across parties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    I was at the event, it much more centred on the EU's failings towards Ireland and suggesting reform rather than a circle jerk of people calling for Ireland to leave the EU.


    I wouldn't support a party calling for Ireland to leave, but would very much welcome a moderate eurosceptic party that is there to act as a watchdog against the EU , and to try steer the EU to the previous EEC model.

    Ireland really needs to reclaim its rights with regards to fisheries, farming, tax and law autonomy, tighter immigration controls and to prevent us from becoming the economic whipping boy when the next global recession unfolds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    I was at the event, it much more centred on the EU's failings towards Ireland and suggesting reform rather than a circle jerk of people calling for Ireland to leave the EU.


    I wouldn't support a party calling for Ireland to leave, but would very much welcome a moderate eurosceptic party that is there to act as a watchdog against the EU , and to try steer the EU to the previous EEC model.

    Ireland really needs to reclaim its rights with regards to fisheries, farming, tax and law autonomy, tighter immigration controls and to prevent us from becoming the economic whipping boy when the next global recession unfolds.

    maybe groups such as diem25 have a better approach?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,243 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    weisses wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/farage-tells-irexit-conference-eu-humiliated-ireland-36564549.html

    So you basically had a bunch of irexiteers engaging in a 2 hour circle
    If they are serious in starting a party it would be nice if they could actually engage in a proper debate
    There was a thread a few weeks back featuring this.

    Four of the empty seats there were mine.

    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    maybe groups such as diem25 have a better approach?

    Ill have to read up on that, have never heard of them before.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Ill have to read up on that, have never heard of them before.

    https://diem25.org/

    lefty alert;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I certainly hope such parties never gain any traction. I hope for more European integration, not less.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Harika


    https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status/960465655056228353

    Irexit simply has not enough support in Ireland to take traction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Irexit thing or not, Ireland needs a few dissenting political voices. It was telling how virulent the response to the meeting at the weekend was by media and the usual Twitter mob. This is the first generation ever that is more conservative than its predecessor (disguised as liberalism), where anyone that doesn't fall strictly into line with the consensus is shouted down, with increasing hysteria. Anything that shakes that mentality is a good thing in my view.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,036 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I fail to see how we would benefit in any way by leaving the EU. Can someone who thinks an Irish Exit* would be a good thing please enlighten me?



    * I'm not going to use the stupid Irexit term


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,354 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Group think about anything is not ideal so for that reason alone I would like a few dissenting and at times awkward voices to be heard on our relationship with the EU. In my opinion some political parties are far too naive in their dealings with Europe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    The only way that Ireland could actually leave the EU and survive in any meaningful way would be to rejoin the UK; even that would be economic suicide.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Gravelly wrote: »
    It was telling how virulent the response to the meeting at the weekend was by media and the usual Twitter mob.

    It tells me that people in Ireland recognize utter lunacy when they see it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    It tells me that people in Ireland recognize utter lunacy when they see it.

    "Lunacy" - funny how any difference of political opinion here is couched in emotive terms, often related to mental illness. You'd think anyone who values democracy wouldn't be so scared of someone peacefully expressing dissent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Gravelly wrote: »
    Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Irexit thing or not, Ireland needs a few dissenting political voices. It was telling how virulent the response to the meeting at the weekend was by media and the usual Twitter mob. This is the first generation ever that is more conservative than its predecessor (disguised as liberalism), where anyone that doesn't fall strictly into line with the consensus is shouted down, with increasing hysteria.

    I, for one, think that the blanket ignoring of "dissenting political voices" which amount to little more than "underpants gnome" logic (i.e. Step 1: Irexit; Step 2: ???; Step 3: Profit) is exactly the opposite of that you claim it is.
    Anything that shakes that mentality is a good thing in my view.
    I think I fundamentally disagree with this. I'm trying to find a realistic hypothetical situation where you'd be correct, but I'm struggling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Gravelly wrote: »
    "Lunacy" - funny how any difference of political opinion here is couched in emotive terms, often related to mental illness. You'd think anyone who values democracy wouldn't be so scared of someone peacefully expressing dissent.
    The word "lunacy" has not been used in the manner in which you imply since approximately the 1930s. Your post is deflection, pure and simple.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,602 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Gravelly wrote: »
    "Lunacy" - funny how any difference of political opinion here is couched in emotive terms, often related to mental illness. You'd think anyone who values democracy wouldn't be so scared of someone peacefully expressing dissent.

    Except that it isn't a difference of opinion at all. It's much more than that. Farage, Banks, Baker and the plenty of other people pushing for Brexit did it because they hate the EU. This "Irexit" nonsense is just a feeble attempt to revive the anti-EU momentum which has fizzled out thankfully. The Irish can see the mess that the UK has gotten itself into. Therefore, lunacy for wanting what they're having is perfectly apt.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    I, for one, think that the blanket ignoring of "dissenting political voices" which amount to little more than "underpants gnome" logic (i.e. Step 1: Irexit; Step 2: ???; Step 3: Profit) is exactly the opposite of that you claim it is.


    I think I fundamentally disagree with this. I'm trying to find a realistic hypothetical situation where you'd be correct, but I'm struggling.

    So you think there should only be consent with the status quo? I find that fascinating. I'd find it horrifying if I thought there was a large majority who thought like you though. History has many lessons to teach us, and an important one is that when everyone thinks the same, nobody is thinking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    The word "lunacy" has not been used in the manner in which you imply since approximately the 1930s. Your post is deflection, pure and simple.

    Deflection from what?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Except that it isn't a difference of opinion at all. It's much more than that. Farage, Banks, Baker and the plenty of other people pushing for Brexit did it because they hate the EU. This "Irexit" nonsense is just a feeble attempt to revive the anti-EU momentum which has fizzled out thankfully. The Irish can see the mess that the UK has gotten itself into. Therefore, lunacy for wanting what they're having is perfectly apt.

    If it's such obvious "lunacy" then why get so worked up about it? Let people have their "lunatic" alternative view, it might keep the smart, sane ones honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,447 ✭✭✭weisses


    Gravelly wrote: »
    So you think there should only be consent with the status quo? I find that fascinating. I'd find it horrifying if I thought there was a large majority who thought like you though. History has many lessons to teach us, and an important one is that when everyone thinks the same, nobody is thinking.

    What status Quo ?

    So If a vast majority of a population is happy with how things are ... they are actually not thinking ?


    Or to reverse that ... If a majority of people is thinking the same by wanting to leave the EU you actually say no one is thinking ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Gravelly wrote: »
    So you think there should only be consent with the status quo? I find that fascinating. I'd find it horrifying if I thought there was a large majority who thought like you though. History has many lessons to teach us, and an important one is that when everyone thinks the same, nobody is thinking.

    That's not what I said at all.

    I think we shouldn't give platforms or validity to people who talk absolute nonsense and admit with pride that they don't really have a clue what the consequences of their proposed actions would be, but that they want to just shake things up. That's anarchy.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Gravelly wrote:
    Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Irexit thing or not, Ireland needs a few dissenting political voices. It was telling how virulent the response to the meeting at the weekend was by media and the usual Twitter mob. This is the first generation ever that is more conservative than its predecessor (disguised as liberalism), where anyone that doesn't fall strictly into line with the consensus is shouted down, with increasing hysteria. Anything that shakes that mentality is a good thing in my view.


    So dissent for the sake of dissenting?

    There's no comparison for the growth in Ireland since the seventies and eighties that can be attributed to EU membership when it comes to the benefits for the UK.


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