Irexit party yay or nay?

Beechwoodspark

So with the Farage appearance at the rally in the RDS over the weekend in the news, what do people think about his assertion that there is a “gap in the market” in Ireland for an Irexit/eurosceptic political movement?

Personally I think it would be no harm to have some dissenting voices regarding the EU in the body politic of Ireland. A check on the exuberant EU Uber Alles attitude of some in the mainstream parties perhaps.

I wonder what their general appeal would be, I suspect something akin to one of the smaller parties like the Soc Dems or Greens possibly.

Wanderer78

It was sad to see some of the comments from the conference over the weekend, particularly from younger people, the usual nationalistic rubbish that has been trotted out over the last couple of years, 'make Ireland great again', Jesus lads do a bit of reading! Thankfully there isn't much traction yet for irexit, but things could change, I wonder will the Irish division of diem25 become a political party in the near future?

ancapailldorcha

I can't see it happening. I don't think Ireland and the UK are remotely similar when it comes to justifying the existence of such a party. The Irish seem to be well aware of the benefits of being in the EU such as being able to attract US corporations, infrastructure projects and being in the single market. Inequality doesn't seem to be as pronounced as it is in the UK and there isn't really a glorious bygone era for Irish Eurosceptics to employ as a nostalgia tactic.

weisses

You only have to look whats happening in the UK right now

Fianna Fail's Brexit spokesman Stephen Donnelly last night criticised the conference, saying: "The empty rhetoric on Irexit is similar to the nonsense sold to the British people in 2016."

Which seems a proper reply

People seeking tickets for the event online were required to confirm they agreed to terms and conditions that stated that the conference was "only open to supporters of an Irish Exit from the European Union".

The terms also said: "Unwelcome interjections from the audience may result in removal from the event."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/farage-tells-irexit-conference-eu-humiliated-ireland-36564549.html

So you basically had a bunch of irexiteers engaging in a 2 hour circle jerk in the RDS

If they are serious in starting a party it would be nice if they could actually engage in a proper debate

seamus

weisses wrote: »

So you basically had a bunch of irexiteers engaging in a 2 hour circle jerk in the RDS

Made even funnier by the fact that a speech headlined by someone staunchly British and "Britain First", finished with John Waters giving a Catholic, Republican, anti-immigrant speech to stir up the crowd.

This is a group of people who have absolutely no idea about their place in the world except that they hate everything else.

Wanderer78

weisses wrote:

So you basically had a bunch of irexiteers engaging in a 2 hour circle jerk in the RDS

I did find that odd alright, and I'd agree, if they want to be taken serious, open it up to the public. I was interested in going, but it was unaware of this clause

Varik

No problem with people campaign for it or most things, and no issue with the lack of debate as that isn't what this is.

If the IDI host an event on Ireland's place in the EU or some party does run then that's the place for representation and debate. You don't have to have "The Vegan Society of Ireland" start off an event with how great meat tastes. United Ireland, rejoining UK, or EU membership (No, No, Yes), There's no automatically right answer that will always be right.

Sierra Oscar

The National Party essentially espouse the values of UKIP and they've no support here. 0 elected representatives at any level.

Zubeneschamali

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So with the Farage appearance at the rally in the RDS over the weekend in the news, what do people think about his assertion that there is a “gap in the market” in Ireland for an Irexit/eurosceptic political movement?

Comical nonsense. Something like 85-90% of Irish people think Ireland should be in the EU, across parties.

Eric Cartman

I was at the event, it much more centred on the EU's failings towards Ireland and suggesting reform rather than a circle jerk of people calling for Ireland to leave the EU.


I wouldn't support a party calling for Ireland to leave, but would very much welcome a moderate eurosceptic party that is there to act as a watchdog against the EU , and to try steer the EU to the previous EEC model.

Ireland really needs to reclaim its rights with regards to fisheries, farming, tax and law autonomy, tighter immigration controls and to prevent us from becoming the economic whipping boy when the next global recession unfolds.

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I was at the event, it much more centred on the EU's failings towards Ireland and suggesting reform rather than a circle jerk of people calling for Ireland to leave the EU.


I wouldn't support a party calling for Ireland to leave, but would very much welcome a moderate eurosceptic party that is there to act as a watchdog against the EU , and to try steer the EU to the previous EEC model.

Ireland really needs to reclaim its rights with regards to fisheries, farming, tax and law autonomy, tighter immigration controls and to prevent us from becoming the economic whipping boy when the next global recession unfolds.

maybe groups such as diem25 have a better approach?

endacl

weisses wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/farage-tells-irexit-conference-eu-humiliated-ireland-36564549.html

So you basically had a bunch of irexiteers engaging in a 2 hour circle
If they are serious in starting a party it would be nice if they could actually engage in a proper debate

There was a thread a few weeks back featuring this.

Four of the empty seats there were mine.

Eric Cartman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

maybe groups such as diem25 have a better approach?

Ill have to read up on that, have never heard of them before.

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ill have to read up on that, have never heard of them before.

https://diem25.org/

lefty alert;)

murphaph

I certainly hope such parties never gain any traction. I hope for more European integration, not less.

Harika

https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status/960465655056228353

Irexit simply has not enough support in Ireland to take traction.

Gravelly

Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Irexit thing or not, Ireland needs a few dissenting political voices. It was telling how virulent the response to the meeting at the weekend was by media and the usual Twitter mob. This is the first generation ever that is more conservative than its predecessor (disguised as liberalism), where anyone that doesn't fall strictly into line with the consensus is shouted down, with increasing hysteria. Anything that shakes that mentality is a good thing in my view.

Seth Brundle

I fail to see how we would benefit in any way by leaving the EU. Can someone who thinks an Irish Exit* would be a good thing please enlighten me?



* I'm not going to use the stupid Irexit term

Beechwoodspark

Group think about anything is not ideal so for that reason alone I would like a few dissenting and at times awkward voices to be heard on our relationship with the EU. In my opinion some political parties are far too naive in their dealings with Europe.

FreudianSlippers

The only way that Ireland could actually leave the EU and survive in any meaningful way would be to rejoin the UK; even that would be economic suicide.

Zubeneschamali

Gravelly wrote: »

It was telling how virulent the response to the meeting at the weekend was by media and the usual Twitter mob.

It tells me that people in Ireland recognize utter lunacy when they see it.

Gravelly

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It tells me that people in Ireland recognize utter lunacy when they see it.

"Lunacy" - funny how any difference of political opinion here is couched in emotive terms, often related to mental illness. You'd think anyone who values democracy wouldn't be so scared of someone peacefully expressing dissent.

FreudianSlippers

Gravelly wrote: »

Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Irexit thing or not, Ireland needs a few dissenting political voices. It was telling how virulent the response to the meeting at the weekend was by media and the usual Twitter mob. This is the first generation ever that is more conservative than its predecessor (disguised as liberalism), where anyone that doesn't fall strictly into line with the consensus is shouted down, with increasing hysteria.

I, for one, think that the blanket ignoring of "dissenting political voices" which amount to little more than "underpants gnome" logic (i.e. Step 1: Irexit; Step 2: ???; Step 3: Profit) is exactly the opposite of that you claim it is.

Anything that shakes that mentality is a good thing in my view.

I think I fundamentally disagree with this. I'm trying to find a realistic hypothetical situation where you'd be correct, but I'm struggling.

FreudianSlippers

Gravelly wrote: »

"Lunacy" - funny how any difference of political opinion here is couched in emotive terms, often related to mental illness. You'd think anyone who values democracy wouldn't be so scared of someone peacefully expressing dissent.

The word "lunacy" has not been used in the manner in which you imply since approximately the 1930s. Your post is deflection, pure and simple.

ancapailldorcha

Gravelly wrote: »

"Lunacy" - funny how any difference of political opinion here is couched in emotive terms, often related to mental illness. You'd think anyone who values democracy wouldn't be so scared of someone peacefully expressing dissent.

Except that it isn't a difference of opinion at all. It's much more than that. Farage, Banks, Baker and the plenty of other people pushing for Brexit did it because they hate the EU. This "Irexit" nonsense is just a feeble attempt to revive the anti-EU momentum which has fizzled out thankfully. The Irish can see the mess that the UK has gotten itself into. Therefore, lunacy for wanting what they're having is perfectly apt.

Gravelly

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I, for one, think that the blanket ignoring of "dissenting political voices" which amount to little more than "underpants gnome" logic (i.e. Step 1: Irexit; Step 2: ???; Step 3: Profit) is exactly the opposite of that you claim it is.


I think I fundamentally disagree with this. I'm trying to find a realistic hypothetical situation where you'd be correct, but I'm struggling.

So you think there should only be consent with the status quo? I find that fascinating. I'd find it horrifying if I thought there was a large majority who thought like you though. History has many lessons to teach us, and an important one is that when everyone thinks the same, nobody is thinking.

Gravelly

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The word "lunacy" has not been used in the manner in which you imply since approximately the 1930s. Your post is deflection, pure and simple.

Deflection from what?

Gravelly

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Except that it isn't a difference of opinion at all. It's much more than that. Farage, Banks, Baker and the plenty of other people pushing for Brexit did it because they hate the EU. This "Irexit" nonsense is just a feeble attempt to revive the anti-EU momentum which has fizzled out thankfully. The Irish can see the mess that the UK has gotten itself into. Therefore, lunacy for wanting what they're having is perfectly apt.

If it's such obvious "lunacy" then why get so worked up about it? Let people have their "lunatic" alternative view, it might keep the smart, sane ones honest.

weisses

Gravelly wrote: »

So you think there should only be consent with the status quo? I find that fascinating. I'd find it horrifying if I thought there was a large majority who thought like you though. History has many lessons to teach us, and an important one is that when everyone thinks the same, nobody is thinking.

What status Quo ?

So If a vast majority of a population is happy with how things are ... they are actually not thinking ?


Or to reverse that ... If a majority of people is thinking the same by wanting to leave the EU you actually say no one is thinking ?

FreudianSlippers

Gravelly wrote: »

So you think there should only be consent with the status quo? I find that fascinating. I'd find it horrifying if I thought there was a large majority who thought like you though. History has many lessons to teach us, and an important one is that when everyone thinks the same, nobody is thinking.

That's not what I said at all.

I think we shouldn't give platforms or validity to people who talk absolute nonsense and admit with pride that they don't really have a clue what the consequences of their proposed actions would be, but that they want to just shake things up. That's anarchy.

jimmycrackcorm

Gravelly wrote:

Regardless of whether you agree with the whole Irexit thing or not, Ireland needs a few dissenting political voices. It was telling how virulent the response to the meeting at the weekend was by media and the usual Twitter mob. This is the first generation ever that is more conservative than its predecessor (disguised as liberalism), where anyone that doesn't fall strictly into line with the consensus is shouted down, with increasing hysteria. Anything that shakes that mentality is a good thing in my view.

So dissent for the sake of dissenting?

There's no comparison for the growth in Ireland since the seventies and eighties that can be attributed to EU membership when it comes to the benefits for the UK.