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Car crash. How to prove I was in the right?

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  • 03-02-2018 6:21pm
    #1
    CallmeKeano
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭


    Ok, so 2 weeks ago I was in a car crash. This happened in Dublin on the Richmond Road. I was driving when I saw the oncoming car on the wrong side of the road ( if you are not familiar this road is narrow) however realising there was going to be an accident, and I would never swerve or mount a path, I stopped the car pulled up the handbrake and flashed the lights. The other car hit me causing damage to both cars and me to get whiplash. I called the Guards but at the time adrenaline is high and I thought everything was fine as both drivers and all passengers were ok the Guards said they cannot say who was at fault. To me, it would seem obvious as their damage is to the front and ours was along the side. It was an elderly woman driving, I am not looking to take them to the cleaners by any means, however, I have been to the doctor and my back is not great I will need physio and the car will need to be repaired. What should I do?
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    #2
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    CallmeKeano wrote: »
    Ok, so 2 weeks ago I was in a car crash. This happened in Dublin on the Richmond Road. I was driving when I saw the oncoming car on the wrong side of the road ( if you are not familiar this road is narrow) however realising there was going to be an accident, and I would never swerve or mount a path, I stopped the car pulled up the handbrake and flashed the lights. The other car hit me causing damage to both cars and me to get whiplash. I called the Guards but at the time adrenaline is high and I thought everything was fine as both drivers and all passengers were ok the Guards said they cannot say who was at fault. To me, it would seem obvious as their damage is to the front and ours was along the side. It was an elderly woman driving, I am not looking to take them to the cleaners by any means, however, I have been to the doctor and my back is not great I will need physio and the car will need to be repaired. What should I do?
    have you informed you insurance?


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    #3
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    If the Gardai cannot say who is at fault and you have no witness then it's up to the insurance companies to fight it out. They could easily decide that its 50/50.

    Either way you will be sorted for the whiplash either from their insurance company or your own


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    #4
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users Posts: 5,208 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    Sounds like a bad smash whiplash and a bad back, much damage to both cars?


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    #5
    CallmeKeano
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭CallmeKeano


    I have informed my insurance company, Both cars are drivable but there is a good deal of damage mine, for example, has been written off. My partner and I are suffering from back pain since. My honest opinion which was backed up by the Guarda is that they were traveling too fast for the size of the road they were on. The impact caused the car to jerk sideways and we were thrown also the fact we saw it coming caused us to brace for impact which may have been the wrong thing to do however it is a natural reaction. There is damage and seen as I had the handbrake on and was not moving I wouldn't be willing to take any blame and I would feel very hard done by even if I was to take 50%.


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    #6
    Quandary
    Registered Users Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭Quandary


    If I were you it might be worth while going back to the scene of the accident and check around for any security cameras. If you're desperate, you could chance knocking on a few doors to see if anyone is a witness or knows of a witness or has any information.

    I don't want to come across as pessimistic, but the fact that it happened 2 weeks ago is not going to make it easy to get cctv footage even if there are cameras.

    I was in an accident a couple of years ago where the lady who hit me tried to claim she was not at fault. I managed to find a witness who saw the crash and it was all sorted very quickly.

    It's for this very reason that I now have a dash cam. Saves the hassle in future.

    All the best OP. Hope it works out.


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    #7
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    CallmeKeano wrote:
    I have informed my insurance company, Both cars are drivable but there is a good deal of damage mine, for example, has been written off. My partner and I are suffering from back pain since. My honest opinion which was backed up by the Guarda is that they were traveling too fast for the size of the road they were on. The impact caused the car to jerk sideways and we were thrown also the fact we saw it coming caused us to brace for impact which may have been the wrong thing to do however it is a natural reaction. There is damage and seen as I had the handbrake on and was not moving I wouldn't be willing to take any blame and I would feel very hard done by even if I was to take 50%.


    There's nothing in the above to suggest who's fault it was. At the end of the day you won't have any say as to whether your insurance agrees to 50/50 or even 100 percent your fault. They just do their own thing. Whatever works out cheaper for them.

    I know the road very well. In fact I was on it yesterday and wondered at the time if it should be made one way. It's very narrow and bendy for two way traffic. This road has a lot of large commercial vehicles too.


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    #8
    Kenny Logins
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭Kenny Logins


    Did you take any photos?


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    #9
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Either way you will be sorted for the whiplash either from their insurance company or your own

    If you cannot prove the other party is at fault, you won't be compensated for your whiplash. You cannot claim for this on your own policy.

    If liability is apportioned, your passenger can sue you and the other party for their injury


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    #10
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    i don't think that's necessarily the case, I would have thought many policies cover you for Personal Injury. Even if it were true, you could still sue the other driver


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    #11
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    if the op stopped and flashed then its the other parties fault
    they will probably say otherwise tho


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    #12
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Isambard wrote:
    i don't think that's necessarily the case, I would have thought many policies cover you for Personal Injury. Even if it were true, you could still sue the other driver


    The personal injury section of a policy pays peanuts, usually only for death, loss of limb or eyesight . Of course you can sue the other driver, but you face the same burden of proof as the cause of the damage to your car.


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    #13
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Tigger wrote: »
    if the op stopped and flashed then its the other parties fault
    they will probably say otherwise tho

    They shouldn't have flashed and it could have caused a sight issue for the other driver. You also must consider a flash from a stopped vehicle is usually a prompt from the flasher to the other vehicle to proceed.


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    #14
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Tigger wrote: »
    if the op stopped and flashed then its the other parties faul tho

    Its a moot point considering its the OPs word against the other drivers. Being honest OP, it suspect that a driver you claim was moving that fast, you had time to stop, apply a handbrake and flash them. In the same amount of time, and I know you said you didn't want to do this, you could have bailed onto a path.

    I'm not trying to discredit you, and I'm on your side here, just devils advocate and all that.


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    #15
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,043 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Flashed headlights have no standing in law.

    It means the same as the beep of a horn.
    It's purpose is simply to make another person aware of your presence.


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    #16
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Its a moot point considering its the OPs word against the other drivers. Being honest OP, it suspect that a driver you claim was moving that fast, you had time to stop, apply a handbrake and flash them. In the same amount of time, and I know you said you didn't want to do this, you could have bailed onto a path.

    I'm not trying to discredit you, and I'm on your side here, just devils advocate and all that.

    It would be quite easy to stop and flash, and still see the other car not slowing down enough for the conditions of a narrow road. For example, to get past cars on some roads requires slowng to a walking pace or less, so continuing at running pace, (slow for a car) may still be too fast.


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    #17
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    If your asking if it's possible to prove then it can't be. Insurance companies are not miss Marple. The cars need repairs and ultimately they don't pay, the customer does so they will decide a figure and settle taking into account both statement submissions.

    A dash cam may of been some help but it still wouldn't necessarily prove one way or another with absolute certainty.

    This is a systemic problem. Poor roads and cars driven by humans that are prone to errors, distraction and tiredness.


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    #18
    JustJoe7240
    Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    Not to question the OP, But how does one get whiplash as a result of an accident they were expecting, and meeting an oncoming car?


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    #19
    RiseToMe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭RiseToMe


    joecass123 wrote: »
    Not to question the OP, But how does one get whiplash as a result of an accident they were expecting, and meeting an oncoming car?

    He had his handbrake on in fairness, moving object meets immovable object hence his car would have taken the brunt of the impact. If his car could've moved freely at the point of collision, a lot of the impact wouldve been disapated.


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    #20
    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered Users Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime


    The other vehicle was on the wrong side of the road

    I can't see how an insurance company could blame you at all for this.

    The other vehicle also hit and stationery object, it is clearly the other person's fault.

    The only issue is trying to prove that you were in fact stationery.

    OP from dealing with insurance companies in the past regarding accidents and claims etc. Fight it until they give in, I wouldn't let this rest

    If they try a 50/50 blame (which I doubt) argue it, and fight it until you clear.

    In the meantime. Get better soon !


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    #21
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote:
    The other vehicle was on the wrong side of the road


    This isn't certain. Google 20 richmond road (this is a random address) & select Google street view if you aren't familiar with the road. Now use street view & follow all the ways down the road. You'll see how bendy & narrow it is.

    If it was in the very narrow part & op was hit here & there was enough room for his car to be pushed sideways then he might have been on the wrong side of the road.

    The centre of the road isn't marked for most of the road. This is a road where you should be be driving with your wheels inches from the footpath in the narrow parts


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    #22
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    joecass123 wrote: »
    Not to question the OP, But how does one get whiplash as a result of an accident they were expecting, and meeting an oncoming car?

    Probably easier to get whiplash as you tense up in advance which can mean you tear muscles and tendons even easier. whiplash is from the rapid movement of your neck and shoulders, not the direction of the movement. and the headrest is behind you, so less protection from getting hit from the front or side.

    Unfortunately, the OP has learned the hard way that dashcams are worth every penny.


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    #23
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Flashed headlights have no standing in law.

    It means the same as the beep of a horn.
    It's purpose is simply to make another person aware of your presence.

    We're instructed to use our horn to make our presence known. The headlights should not be used for any means other than illumination when required.


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    #24
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    We're instructed to use our horn to make our presence known. The headlights should not be used for any means other than illumination when required.

    What do you do when an oncoming car is blinding you with his full beams, beep at him?


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    #25
    CallmeKeano
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭CallmeKeano


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Its a moot point considering its the OPs word against the other drivers. Being honest OP, it suspect that a driver you claim was moving that fast, you had time to stop, apply a handbrake and flash them. In the same amount of time, and I know you said you didn't want to do this, you could have bailed onto a path.

    I'm not trying to discredit you, and I'm on your side here, just devils advocate and all that.

    I am a little weird I have often wondered what would I do when. My answer to "bailed onto the path" is this what if a cyclist was coming up the inside?
    A small child ran out of a garden?
    I hit a pole and killed my passenger?

    I can go on with these and my point is the other driver would have caused me to do this and would have continued about there business while I have to deal with the damage and frankly that's not me. If I am wrong I am wrong hands up that's me, on the other hand, I would fight tooth and nail to prove I was right if someone was to say it was not their fault. In fact, there were several witnesses as to when I stopped I caused several cars to stop and they would have witnessed. But once I moved in to allow them to pass not one stopped to check if we were alright.


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    #26
    CallmeKeano
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭CallmeKeano


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Flashed headlights have no standing in law.

    Its means the same as the beep of a horn.
    Its purpose is simply to make another person aware of your presence.

    What else was I meant to do? in my opinion, stopping my car engaging the handbrake and flashing head lights to wake the other drive up seems like a logical thing to do as described bailing onto the path is never an option in my opinion.


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    #27
    whizbang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭whizbang


    Check if your car has some sort of logging going on. Many cars now have this. Logs can be read, and handbrake, speed, acceleration log will show clearly if you were stopped.

    Did airbags activate in other car ?
    Any tyre marks.. if the impact was enough to cause injury, then there may be evidence your car was moved backwards.

    I would suggest you 'find' a witness , before they do..


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    #28
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Bruthal wrote: »
    What do you do when an oncoming car is blinding you with his full beams, beep at him?

    It could be argued that's what the op did to the oncoming driver.

    If possible I slow down and look away from the light source. I was instructed to look towards the edge of my side of the road. I haven't come up to people with full beams on. But these days with Suv's having the head lights placed so high, it doesn't seem to be too different from high/low beams.


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    #29
    CallmeKeano
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭CallmeKeano


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It could be argued that's what the op did to the oncoming driver.

    If possible I slow down and look away from the light source. I was instructed to look towards the edge of my side of the road. I haven't come up to people with full beams on. But these days with Suv's having the head lights placed so high, it doesn't seem to be too different from high/low beams.

    I didn't have my full beams on, I flashed twice in total quick succession just as a warning to the oncoming car, to no effect. A lot of people are saying that I had a lot of time. Whereas this is not the case I was not traveling fast by any means, I was in second gear in a Ford Focus doing about 25k. this is a narrow road and I wouldn't be a regular so I was being cautious. I was in the right as I was not moving this has to be the case. I am actually looking for how and where I can advertise looking for a witness.


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    #30
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,881 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    CallmeKeano wrote:
    I didn't have my full beams on, I flashed twice in total quick succession just as a warning to the oncoming car, to no effect. A lot of people are saying that I had a lot of time. Whereas this is not the case I was not traveling fast by any means, I was in second gear in a Ford Focus doing about 25k. this is a narrow road and I wouldn't be a regular so I was being cautious. I was in the right as I was not moving this has to be the case. I am actually looking for how and where I can advertise looking for a witness.

    Because you stopped first doesn't automatically make it the other person's fault.

    I'm not saying it was your fault. I just don't think you can prove who's fault.


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    #31
    morritty
    Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭morritty


    Right, i drive that road every day. I pass oncoming traffic everyday, no accidents yet, infact yesterday i had right of way heading towards the Drumcondra road and the car coming towards me had parked cars on their side. i decided to drive as closely to the kerb as possible, needless to day i got the finger from the other driver. My point is, the other driver will think they're right probably, at the end of the day you were stopped and you flashed, shes going to take that as "oh they have pulled over to let me past." Without any witness, it'll be a tough one to prove. where abouts on the road was the accident? and what way were you heading?


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