Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

The Enbalmer

LoLth wrote: »

I saw a news report a while ago on the possibility of using cryptocurrencies / blockchain to overcome the fear and mistrust of banks in third world / developing countries where they have very little infrastructure (including actual banks) but have access to (limited) smartphone technology.

They have no banks but everybody is computer-literate and can use smartphones to trade magic coins?

The problem with most of the "third world" is not that people "fear and mistrust" banks...it's that they have no money to buy food so no need to have a bank account.

How exactly is somebody in sub-saharan africa that has had 30 years of war,famine and drought going to access Bitcoins and what are they going to trade them for?

The Enbalmer

Grumpypants wrote: »

You can buy cosmetics in fortnight with Monero.

Great. I must remember that when Boots stop taking my cash!

q85dw7osi4lebg

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Just rang them..they no longer accept cryptocurrencies!

I just rang them, they said they do. You are completely full of s**t. :pac:

makeorbrake

The Enbalmer wrote: »

So you don't actually know of any real world applications for cryptocurrency?

I think he means there's no point in interacting with trolls. I should know better but I went to the trouble of digging out a whole list of use cases and you just blindly ignore it...

makeorbrake

The Enbalmer wrote: »

They have no banks but everybody is computer-literate and can use smartphones to trade magic coins?

Even a smart phone is no longer needed.

If you have no means of access (re. banks), then people will go the extra mile to figure out a solution.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

The problem with most of the "third world" is not that people "fear and mistrust" banks...it's that they have no money to buy food so no need to have a bank account.

So nobody has ever lost money they held in a bank. What if I was to say that there hasn't been a year that has gone by whereby someone has not lost money held in banks due to either the bank going bust or the government taking it?

The Enbalmer wrote: »

How exactly is somebody in sub-saharan africa that has had 30 years of war,famine and drought going to access Bitcoins and what are they going to trade them for?

By SMS! Do some research before you come on here making ignorant big fat claims!

cnocbui

Everyone with money in a bank account in Ireland is losing money given the rate of inflation, near nonexistent interest and then DIRT pounding the nails in for good measure. That's why I took most of mine out and bought crypto.

cnocbui

The Enbalmer wrote: »

They have no banks but everybody is computer-literate and can use smartphones to trade magic coins?

The problem with most of the "third world" is not that people "fear and mistrust" banks...it's that they have no money to buy food so no need to have a bank account.

How exactly is somebody in sub-saharan africa that has had 30 years of war,famine and drought going to access Bitcoins and what are they going to trade them for?

You should check this out:

Bitcoin Is the New Crisis Currency
By Rob Urban
November 17, 2017, 5:00 AM GMT Corrected November 27, 2017, 4:17 PM GMT

Cryptocurrency supplants local money when governments fail
Africans in Paris use it to send money home to their families

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-17/bitcoin-emerges-as-crisis-currency-in-hotspots-such-as-zimbabwe

LoLth

The Enbalmer wrote: »

They have no banks but everybody is computer-literate and can use smartphones to trade magic coins?

The problem with most of the "third world" is not that people "fear and mistrust" banks...it's that they have no money to buy food so no need to have a bank account.

How exactly is somebody in sub-saharan africa that has had 30 years of war,famine and drought going to access Bitcoins and what are they going to trade them for?

maybe a little less sarcasm and a bit more willingness to do a quick search would help you get your argument across. I'm still looking for the clip I saw (it was mainly dealing with shanty towns including a massive sprawl outside of Soweto in South Africa). There are other references to similar use cases however as already posted by others and the following here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/darrynpollock/2018/10/23/africas-blockchain-potential-untapped-but-how-to-implement-it/

Its not necessarily about cryptocurrencies as they are today, it could be about real currency represented as a crypto-token (which means it is underpinend by actual value that could be traded and transferred the same as actual currency but without having to give an envelope of cash to a bus driver to delivery if they decide to take that route that day). So, not as an investment resource for speculation but as a trust platform.

and yes, access to the internet is available to developing countries, usually as a subsidised programme to enable education and access to information as well as an ability to communicate needs and emergencies. (last I checked you didn't need to be computer literate to use a smart phone and while people in a developing area may not have money, that doesn't mean they don't have people in other countries who want to give them money or that there aren't government aid programs that don't have a secure and cost effective way of getting money or payments to rural areas).


edit: and some research for usage in Uganda https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327416757_Developing_Countries_and_Blockchain_Technology_Uganda's_Perspective

Blockchain is receiving ever-growing attention from research and industry and is considered a breakthrough technology. This paper present an overview of Blockchain Technology and its potential applications in developing countries especially Uganda. It was noted thatthese nations have the potential to progress, but do not have adequate access to present day technology, primarily due to lack of infrastructure and thus Blockchain Technology will fill the gaps. Fundamentally, these nations need transparency, security, and accountability in their processes, all of which are cornerstones of Blockchain technology. Finally, this paper reveals that due to the support from both government and non-governmental organizations, and the establishment of the Blockchain Association of Uganda, Uganda is ready for Blockchain Technology

rapul

The Enbalmer wrote: »

It's gonna go DOWN long term of course.

Thats what people have been trying to say and we get showered with abuse for doing so.

Its over..the crypto bubble has burst,stop trying to "buy the dips",they're not dips,they're part of the slide to zero.

Do you have any concrete evidence for your bold statements above?
No one will reply back to you with an ounce of effort if you juat keep spewing ****e like that out for what seems to be only to get a rise out of others.

Mike3549

makeorbrake wrote: »

Even a smart phone is no longer needed.

If you have no means of access (re. banks), then people will go the extra mile to figure out a solution.



So nobody has ever lost money they held in a bank. What if I was to say that there hasn't been a year that has gone by whereby someone has not lost money held in banks due to either the bank going bust or the government taking it?


By SMS! Do some research before you come on here making ignorant big fat claims!

Yes people have no money to buy food, walk 20miles a day to get water, electricity doesnt exist where they live, but they have smartphones! How the f*uck did they buy them and how should they charge them?

smacl

Mike3549 wrote: »

Yes people have no money to buy food, walk 20miles a day to get water, electricity doesnt exist where they live, but they have smartphones! How the f*uck did they buy them and how should they charge them?

You don't need a smartphone to send an SMS, something like the Nokia 105 retails at €18 and has a 15 hour battery life, which if turned off except for when you want to send or receive an SMS is exceptionally long. You can also get solar chargers for €8, so while a total outlay of €26 might be a large amount of money for somebody in this context, it is achievable for many.

The Enbalmer

makeorbrake wrote: »

I think he means there's no point in interacting with trolls. I should know better but I went to the trouble of digging out a whole list of use cases and you just blindly ignore it...

Where is the list?

Somebody mentioned Subway,a BMW dealership in England and some Make-up shop.

This technology has been around for a decade and that's the best you can do to show its relevance?

sexmag

Mike3549 wrote: »

Yes people have no money to buy food, walk 20miles a day to get water, electricity doesnt exist where they live, but they have smartphones! How the f*uck did they buy them and how should they charge them?

Off topic but the days of the poor African dehydrated and walking 20 miles to get water is long gone, the simple answer was to move closer to the water but with the vast amount of charity and influx in money they evolved with the the rest of the world, 490 million Africans have access to electricity and even more have access to a mobile phone source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/08/in-much-of-sub-saharan-africa-mobile-phones-are-more-common-than-access-to-electricity#ampf=undefined

So it's quite feesable they use crypto currencies to send to and from their loved ones

The Enbalmer

LoLth wrote: »

maybe a little less sarcasm and a bit more willingness to do a quick search would help you get your argument across. I'm still looking for the clip I saw (it was mainly dealing with shanty towns including a massive sprawl outside of Soweto in South Africa). There are other references to similar use cases however as already posted by others and the following here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/darrynpollock/2018/10/23/africas-blockchain-potential-untapped-but-how-to-implement-it/

Its not necessarily about cryptocurrencies as they are today, it could be about real currency represented as a crypto-token (which means it is underpinend by actual value that could be traded and transferred the same as actual currency but without having to give an envelope of cash to a bus driver to delivery if they decide to take that route that day). So, not as an investment resource for speculation but as a trust platform.

and yes, access to the internet is available to developing countries, usually as a subsidised programme to enable education and access to information as well as an ability to communicate needs and emergencies. (last I checked you didn't need to be computer literate to use a smart phone and while people in a developing area may not have money, that doesn't mean they don't have people in other countries who want to give them money or that there aren't government aid programs that don't have a secure and cost effective way of getting money or payments to rural areas).


edit: and some research for usage in Uganda https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327416757_Developing_Countries_and_Blockchain_Technology_Uganda's_Perspective

So if they have no money where will they get the smartphones to buy thier Bitcoins?

Would a smartphone not be useless without electricity and Internet coverage?

There's parts of Ireland where you cant get an internet signal..i can image what rural Ghana is like.

And to be perfectly frank people,in times of great hardship and suffering tend to use barter in place of money or swap services for goods or the other way round.

High value resources would be food,medicine,clothing,ammunition,petrol,fishing line...stuff that can be used or traded in a crises.

People in famine-stricken areas absolutely DO NOT go online to an internet currency exchange and buy magic coins that most people have no idea what they are (this goes for the investor types as well).

How do they purchase them without money? And if they do buy some how can they swap them for vital supplies when all they are is dots on a screen?

This space makes no sense as any sort of alternative currency..even now..ten years after it was invented there's barely anywhere that uses cryptocurrency.

People have "invested" due to FUD and through greed and now they're pretending there is a wider use for the coins despite evidence that they are in fact utterly useless.

q85dw7osi4lebg

The Enbalmer wrote: »

So if they have no money where will they get the smartphones to buy thier Bitcoins?

Would a smartphone not be useless without electricity and Internet coverage?

There's parts of Ireland where you cant get an internet signal..i can image what rural Ghana is like.

And to be perfectly frank people,in times of great hardship and suffering tend to use barter in place of money or swap services for goods or the other way round.

High value resources would be food,medicine,clothing,ammunition,petrol,fishing line...stuff that can be used or traded in a crises.

People in famine-stricken areas absolutely DO NOT go online to an internet currency exchange and buy magic coins that most people have no idea what they are (this goes for the investor types as well).

How do they purchase them without money? And if they do buy some how can they swap them for vital supplies when all they are is dots on a screen?

This space makes no sense as any sort of alternative currency..even now..ten years after it was invented there's barely anywhere that uses cryptocurrency.

People have "invested" due to FUD and through greed and now they're pretending there is a wider use for the coins despite evidence that they are in fact utterly useless.

TOP DEFINITION
Sealioning
A subtle form of trolling involving "bad-faith" questions. You disingenuously frame your conversation as a sincere request to be enlightened, placing the burden of educating you entirely on the other party. If your bait is successful, the other party may engage, painstakingly laying out their logic and evidence in the false hope of helping someone learn. In fact you are attempting to harass or waste the time of the other party, and have no intention of truly entertaining their point of view. Instead, you react to each piece of information by misinterpreting it or requesting further clarification, ad nauseum. The name "sea-lioning" comes from a Wondermark comic strip.

makeorbrake

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Where is the list?
This technology has been around for a decade and that's the best you can do to show its relevance?

You [bleep]! I posted it in response to your 'demand'. You then ignored it - and now you feign not seeing it a second time.


You're just a [nope] - find your way back to after hours. As regards lists - you're now on one yourself - my ignore list.

edit: LoLth : attack the post and not the poster please. Adding to the ignore list is the best response. you do yourself more harm by responding angry.

The Enbalmer

sexmag wrote: »

Off topic but the days of the poor African dehydrated and walking 20 miles to get water is long gone,

Really?

Whelo79

Why is it this thread gets one of these people every couple of months, who all think they are a genius, here to teach us something new and they then scurry off never to be seen again after all their nonsense had been answered emphatically?

Every single one of them follows the same path of argument too. Surely it's not just the same loser registering new accounts all the time, is it??

q85dw7osi4lebg

Whelo79 wrote: »

Why is it this thread gets one of these people every couple of months, who all think they are a genius, here to teach us something new and they then scurry off never to be seen again after all their nonsense had been answered emphatically?

Every single one of them follows the same path of argument too. Surely it's not just the same loser registering new accounts all the time, is it??

It is indeed the same loser..

sexmag

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Really?

I read your link,it says "Millions Of Women Take A Long Walk"

A long walk! a long walk! It goes on to say that due to seasonal factors this may increase to 30 minutes, take your 3 year old bull article out of here.
Time to hit ignore,InstaSte is right this is just sealioning

sexmag

makeorbrake wrote: »

You [bleep]! I posted it in response to your 'demand'. You then ignored it - and now you feign not seeing it a second time.


You're just a [nope] - find your way back to after hours. As regards lists - you're now on one yourself - my ignore list.

edit: LoLth : attack the post and not the poster please. Adding to the ignore list is the best response. you do yourself more harm by responding angry.

I saw the post before the edit, I agree with makeorbrake and their original post but time to move on

LoLth

The Enbalmer wrote: »

So if they have no money where will they get the smartphones to buy thier Bitcoins?

Would a smartphone not be useless without electricity and Internet coverage?

There's parts of Ireland where you cant get an internet signal..i can image what rural Ghana is like.

And to be perfectly frank people,in times of great hardship and suffering tend to use barter in place of money or swap services for goods or the other way round.

High value resources would be food,medicine,clothing,ammunition,petrol,fishing line...stuff that can be used or traded in a crises.

People in famine-stricken areas absolutely DO NOT go online to an internet currency exchange and buy magic coins that most people have no idea what they are (this goes for the investor types as well).

How do they purchase them without money? And if they do buy some how can they swap them for vital supplies when all they are is dots on a screen?

This space makes no sense as any sort of alternative currency..even now..ten years after it was invented there's barely anywhere that uses cryptocurrency.

People have "invested" due to FUD and through greed and now they're pretending there is a wider use for the coins despite evidence that they are in fact utterly useless.

so, based on a worst case scenario you have concluded that the technology cannot be used to make anyone's life easier or better? Do you honestly have so little imagination that you need to be spoon fed a description of a use? (and again, in case you did not make the inference, the people using the service would not be buying bitcoins, they would be using blockchain to underpin trusted transfer of funds, the could then spend those funds online how they see fit - and no, not in amazon, put some thought into it).

What some people do with a technology does not define all of the possible uses of that technology.

The Enbalmer

LoLth wrote: »

The Enbalmer wrote: »

So if they have no money where will they get the smartphones to buy thier Bitcoins?

Would a smartphone not be useless without electricity and Internet coverage?

There's parts of Ireland where you cant get an internet signal..i can image what rural Ghana is like.

And to be perfectly frank people,in times of great hardship and suffering tend to use barter in place of money or swap services for goods or the other way round.

High value resources would be food,medicine,clothing,ammunition,petrol,fishing line...stuff that can be used or traded in a crises.

People in famine-stricken areas absolutely DO NOT go online to an internet currency exchange and buy magic coins that most people have no idea what they are (this goes for the investor types as well).

How do they purchase them without money? And if they do buy some how can they swap them for vital supplies when all they are is dots on a screen?

This space makes no sense as any sort of alternative currency..even now..ten years after it was invented there's barely anywhere that uses cryptocurrency.

People have "invested" due to FUD and through greed and now they're pretending there is a wider use for the coins despite evidence that they are in fact utterly useless.

so, based on a worst case scenario you have concluded that the technology cannot be used to make anyone's life easier or better? Do you honestly have so little imagination that you need to be spoon fed a description of a use? (and again, in case you did not make the inference, the people using the service would not be buying bitcoins, they would be using blockchain to underpin trusted transfer of funds, the could then spend those funds online how they see fit - and no, not in amazon, put some thought into it).

What some people do with a technology does not define all of the possible uses of that technology.

I'm still waiting to hear of real world applications for a tech thats been around for a decade.

And leaving aside the tech,what real world applications are there for a ten-year old concept that was supposed to replace or augment existing financial services ( that even crypto heads use on a daily basis)?

sexmag

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I'm still waiting to hear of real world applications for a tech thats been around for a decade.

And leaving aside the tech,what real world applications are there for a ten-year old concept that was supposed to replace or augment existing financial services ( that even crypto heads use on a daily basis)?

You were given applications, you chose to ignore them and practically everyone in this thread is sick of you so bye

JohnnyFlash

cnocbui wrote: »

Everyone with money in a bank account in Ireland is losing money given the rate of inflation, near nonexistent interest and then DIRT pounding the nails in for good measure. That's why I took most of mine out and bought crypto.

How much money did you lose because of that act of financial rebellion.

cnocbui

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

How much money did you lose because of that act of financial rebellion.

+223%

cravings

Mike3549 wrote: »

Yes people have no money to buy food, walk 20miles a day to get water, electricity doesnt exist where they live, but they have smartphones! How the f*uck did they buy them and how should they charge them?

in many african countries, smartphones are hugely important. i'm not advocating this, but i've heard of many families where the family will go hungry because the father needs the money he can get for a phone. i know an irish man who lived in cameroon for a good few years.. he took a basic phone with him, because it was all he wanted or needed. yet he was surprised that he was often ridiculed by people he met there who thought his phone was old and stupid.

"africa" is such a mindblowing huge place with such a huge population and such a wealth of cultures (cameroon alone has 22 official national languages) that i would say i know as good as nothing about it. so any random anecdote i or anyone can give should be taken with a pinch of salt.

but as i've just said, i've hear tell of how in one area in one troubled and very poor country, smartphones are of huge huge importance for many reasons.

Mike3549

Guys sorry for derailing the thread. you can call it sealioning, trolling or whatever you like, but claiming that crypto is for people in developing countries is ridiculous.
1/6th of all population have little or no electricity, 1/3rd dont use mobiles phones and you claim that these people in particular will use crypto, by texting? Its not easy to explain how technology works to public joe, but somehow you dont think it will be a problem to an uneducated person from 3rd world country, who cannot read or write

makeorbrake

And despite this nonsense talk about a lack of phones in Africa, 'mobile money' is huge in that continent. You only have to look at Kenya's Mpesa for that. Cryptocurrency Dash recently rolled out Dash Text in South America - to cater for those that don't have smartphones and to make it much more customer friendly to send and receive cryptocurrency.

The main developers behind Bitcoin recently completed almost worldwide satellite coverage for a system that will facilitate transmission of crypto....complete worldwide coverage if you're prepared to accept the exclusion of Greenland and Antarctica.

That means that crypto doesn't even need the internet.

Time and time again, we have people coming on here saying it can't do this or that today. If you are going to be so narrow minded to ignore the work that is being done, then you'll never see the full picture (but of course, with some here, they don't want to see the whole picture).

q85dw7osi4lebg

Mike3549 wrote: »

Guys sorry for derailing the thread. you can call it sealioning, trolling or whatever you like, but claiming that crypto is for people in developing countries is ridiculous.
1/6th of all population have little or no electricity, 1/3rd dont use mobiles phones and you claim that these people in particular will use crypto, by texting? Its not easy to explain how technology works to public joe, but somehow you dont think it will be a problem to an uneducated person from 3rd world country, who cannot read or write

Were talking about those in third world countries who do have electricity, do have mobiles and who can read and write.