Off Topic Thread 4.0

pickarooney

awec wrote: »

On the number of ventilators thing, over 50% of ventilators used worldwide are made in Ireland. We’re also the second largest exporter of medical technology in Europe.

Where have we seen this before?

If they're made by a private company and have been bought and paid for by other countries/hospitals/whatever then so what? Do we rob them?

errlloyd

Sloane Nutritious Ham wrote: »

If they're made by a private company and have been bought and paid for by other countries/hospitals/whatever then so what? Do we rob them?

Other more selfish countries would probably simply ban the export of them. We've seen that with chemicals and masks this time around.

I think Ireland could divert government resources towards guaranteeing their supply chain. Incentivize them to increase their production to as high a point as possible, even beyond enforcement of some usual health and safety rules. (For example there is a limit on how long a worker can work in a plant if the latent noise is over a certain number of decibels. Those sorts of limits could be reduced).

The government could ask experts from those facilities to move to other facilities to help re-tool machines to product ventillators. The government could also pass intellectual property legislation that would prevent those companies from continuing to use the IP after the state of emergency has ended. That sounds crazy (I know) but the UK government has already told Rolls Royce and JCB to retool their machines for making ventilators. And one of the main problems was the existing companies being worried about competition post crisis.

b.gud

Sloane Nutritious Ham wrote: »

Is there a reason beyond Trump being completely unhinged that he would want to try and buy that in-development coronavirus vaccine exclusively for use in the US?

I would assume he's thinking about the election. Imagine being able to say America is the only Medical system in the world that has the virus, and he could go on about how we never would have been able to do that if the dems had there way with medicare

swiwi_

One thing that requires planning is more maternity beds. I'd say the hospitals have about 9 months to undertake the renovations.

Dubinusa

Mass. Just closed restaurants. To go orders only. Pubs too?

swiwi_

Surreal times, I must say. Switzerland has closed any shop that isn't basically essential. My dream of long hippy-style hair might become a realty as hairdressers are in the non-essential list. The confederation has also used extraordinary powers to take over the running of the country from the 26 cantons, who are usually highly autonomous (basically the Swiss state only controls foreign affairs, defence, customs/central money, everything else is pretty much the cantons).

What will be interesting is if medical ethics has to take a role: X number of intensive care beds with X+Y patients. Who gets the beds: youngest? fittest? richest? private insurance? celebrity? healthcare workers? drawing of lots?

If there's a bright side, this might do for Trump. You can't out-tweet, out-insult or fire the coronavirus.

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

Surreal times, I must say. Switzerland has closed any shop that isn't basically essential. My dream of long hippy-style hair might become a realty as hairdressers are in the non-essential list. The confederation has also used extraordinary powers to take over the running of the country from the 26 cantons, who are usually highly autonomous (basically the Swiss state only controls foreign affairs, defence, customs/central money, everything else is pretty much the cantons).

What will be interesting is if medical ethics has to take a role: X number of intensive care beds with X+Y patients. Who gets the beds: youngest? fittest? richest? private insurance? celebrity? healthcare workers? drawing of lots?

If there's a bright side, this might do for Trump. You can't out-tweet, out-insult or fire the coronavirus.

This is already happening in Italy I'm fairly sure.

Had to uninstall Instagram. The hysteria and pontificing was getting to me

Zzippy

Got the rumours about the army implementing martial law and laughed out loud at the lad on the phone.

"What, both of them?"

I can't believe some of the quotes coming out of the UK right now.

The UK Only Realised "In The Last Few Days" That Its Coronavirus Strategy Would "Likely Result In Hundreds of Thousands of Deaths"

We were expecting herd immunity to build. We now realise it’s not possible to cope with that," said Professor Azra Ghani, chair of infectious diseases epidemiology at Imperial.

This is what happens when only 'yes' people exist among your government and your main adviser is a weirdo armchair eugenicist.

This is the absolute worst possible time for the UK to have ended up with a jokeshop 'brexit' government and a PM absolutely no one trusts.

Neil3030

Really hope they can come up with a safe way for either football or rugby to play behind closed doors with a skeleton crew for broadcast/medical care etc. Having some contemporary event not involving this bleeping virus would be such a boost.

Never have the words of the great Michael Parkinson rang so true, "Sport is important because it's not important."

Neil3030

Ah here...

15,000 cases projected for Ireland by the end of the month?

Netherlands giving up and opting for herd immunity?

How the F did Europe screw this up sooo badly?

sydthebeat

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ah here...

15,000 cases projected for Ireland by the end of the month?

Netherlands giving up and opting for herd immunity?

How the F did Europe screw this up sooo badly?

We'll never know how many cases are here already, as we're not testing every case.

There could certainly be 15,000 cases already in the country.

However if everyone isolates and keeps contact with others to a minimum we can significant reduce the spread to a manageable level.

UK not closing schools is mind bogglingly stupid..... Another on their list of mind bogglingly stupid decisions.

Hopefully after this we see the end of populist government's like bojo and the donald

errlloyd

swiwi_ wrote: »

What will be interesting is if medical ethics has to take a role: X number of intensive care beds with X+Y patients. Who gets the beds: youngest? fittest? richest? private insurance? celebrity? healthcare workers? drawing of lots?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/

It will happen. It is happening. And some junior doctor barely out of school will probably end up doing it.

Former Former

sydthebeat wrote: »

Hopefully after this we see the end of populist government's like bojo and the donald

I would fear the opposite, that we'd be more likely to see populism rise again. This is going to be a long slog. Once the virus recedes, the economic damage will remain. High unemployment, high taxes, reduced services... People will be angry and so it's ripe for someone to come along and exploit that.

thomasdylan

errlloyd wrote: »

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/

It will happen. It is happening. And some junior doctor barely out of school will probably end up doing it.

I'd be surprised if anyone under reg level has to make the very difficult decisions.

errlloyd

thomasdylan wrote: »

I'd be surprised if anyone under reg level has to make the very difficult decisions.

I mean hopefully the decision is made on high. A set of quite strict guidelines are outlined and no individual ever has to "make" the decision. They just enforce the policy.

Buer

Former Former wrote: »

I would fear the opposite, that we'd be more likely to see populism rise again. This is going to be a long slog. Once the virus recedes, the economic damage will remain. High unemployment, high taxes, reduced services... People will be angry and so it's ripe for someone to come along and exploit that.

Agreed. There's a big opportunity for extremist elements to make their play right now. There's scope to blame others for the mess and fall out. Every decision can be scrutinised and spun.

This situation could be an exceptionally uniting period or result in huge division. Trump and Johnson may be casualties of the situation eventually but who is to say that a half dozen other nations won't introduce right wing governments which will balance that.

There's a ready made vehicle here to blame other cultures and nations for the virus infiltrating a society and the economic fall out. We've already seen people are very happy to get on board with such notions.

stephen_n

A quick glance at twitter would show that this is as polarizing as anything else. The people that believe the Tories were deliberately sacrificing lives. Then those who believe firmly now that they were operating on the best British scientific advice. That this isn’t a U-Turn just the next phase of the plan. Most of those would appear to be Brexit supporters. As yet they haven’t found a way to blame Johhny foreigner, but they will. Just look at Trumps it’s a Chinese disease.

awec

Disney+ due to launch here later this month. I reckon if they could bump their release date up until now they'd make a clean fortune!

Squidgy Black

Varadker making a State of the Nation announcement at 9, almost guaranteed to be announcing the lockdown along with the Garda's new public order force.

thomond2006

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Varadker making a State of the Nation announcement at 9, almost guaranteed to be announcing the lockdown along with the Garda's new public order force.

Nothing too much in terms of changes, but that was a top class speech.

Squidgy Black

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nothing too much in terms of changes, but that was a top class speech.

Yeah I have to give it to him, he's a very good orator.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nothing too much in terms of changes, but that was a top class speech.

Completely.

It was an excellent, reassuring speech

Its at a time like this im quite glad we've a doctor as a leader of the country.

Zzippy

Reading between the lines. That speech was an attempt to prepare people for a big shock. They expect the hospitals to be overwhelmed, no two ways about it. This is just preparing the ground.
Mate's wife is in ICU and says the patients they are seeing are "very very sick". Wife knows a Dublin GP who said he thinks it is already widespread in the community there. These aren't WhatsApp rumours, this is the impression of two people dealing directly with this thing.
Varadkar is in an awful position. He knows what's coming but can't spell it out without being criticised for causing panic. Whoever wrote the speech did a fine job too.

swiwi_

Yip that was a pretty decent speech. Looks at the camera too, doesn’t give the impression of having something to hide, no obvious ego.

awec

I thought it was an excellent speech. Well written, delivered well, the right message delivered in the right way. The right balance of reassurance and reality.

I think at this point we need to avoid unnecessary negative speculation, it doesn't help anyone. We have to remember that even doctors, nurses and what not can be affected by this stuff.

ClanofLams

Very grateful a new govt hadn’t been formed before this.

Not sure if there is a constitutional requirement to form new govt within a certain timeframe following election but ideally current govt would stay in place until this is over or well under control at least, even if that is months.

Zzippy

awec wrote: »

I think at this point we need to avoid unnecessary negative speculation, it doesn't help anyone. We have to remember that even doctors, nurses and what not can be affected by this stuff.

On the contrary. Too many people need a wake up call and to realise how serious this is. No point people thinking this isn't too bad and relaxing their social distancing, or not engaging in it. Time is critical here and even a small number of people being blase about it can spread this thing beyond the capacity of the country to cope. Medical staff are well aware of what's coming and most of them want the rest of us to do everything we can to help them out. Fear is a powerful motivator.