Canelo v GGG II 5/5/18

Big Ears

Mellor wrote: »

I'd find it more believable that he picked it up through tainted meat than the alternative - that an elite boxer is taking clen.

That is very naive imo.

Why would you think an elite boxer wouldn't be using Clenbuterol, considering the level of testing is typically very poor and you'll only get caught if you/your team are idiots ?

Mellor

Big Ears wrote: »

That is very naive imo.

Why would you think an elite boxer wouldn't be using Clenbuterol, considering the level of testing is typically very poor and you'll only get caught if you/your team are idiots ?

Clenbuterol is easily detectable. The testing in boxing is poor generally, but Alvarez and GGG opt'd into VADA testing. Taking clen when youre expecting to be visited during camp is odd. The levels reported by the WADA accredited lab are in-line with contamination. You'd expect doping results to be much higher.
The effects of clen are mild, relatively speaking. If an elite boxer was going to take PEDs, there are drugs that will do a better job, with the added bonus of much stronger anabolic effects. Potentially harder to detect too.
Clenbuterol is a vetinary medication. Meat contamination is common, so much so that WADA issued a caution for athletes training in Mexico and China.

Due to continuing concerns over contaminated meat in certain parts of the world, the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has re-emphasized the need for athletes to exercise extreme caution with regards to eating meat when traveling to competitions in China and Mexico.

It has been shown that Mexico and China have a serious problem with meat contaminated with the prohibited substance clenbuterol...

So yeah, all things considered. I find it more believable that an athlete training in Mexico could show trace levels due to contaminated meat, rather taking a low dose before a test he knows is coming.

walshb

Need to find out the exact levels found in his system...if very low maybe he can explain it away as contamination. Not saying the explanation is the truth, juts that he can use it to get a pass.

Ultimately it is a prohibited substance and he is responsible.

Mellor

walshb wrote: »

Need to find out the exact levels found in his system...if very low maybe he can explain it away as contamination. Not saying the explanation is the truth, juts that he can use it to get a pass.

Ultimately it is a prohibited substance and he is responsible.

The letter from VADA. Levels were very low. The lab who tested it mention contamination first.

walshb

Seems clean cut, only that no levels are acceptable....

I reckon it's a genuine error on Canelo's part as regards contamination...

He'll get a pass I hope.

Morrison J

This was said when Alberto Contador tested positive for the same substance.



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/sports/cycling/01cycling.html?scp=5&sq=contador&st=cse

Mellor

Morrison J wrote: »

This was said when Alberto Contador tested positive for the same substance.

The difference there is that Contador tested positive during the Tour De France. Clenbuterol was banned animals use in Europe at the time. So its near impossible that meat in France/Spain was tainted.
Where as it's a known issue in Mexico.

Since the Contador case WADA have down test that prove meat contamination is possible.

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/final_report_13d23ss_dr._sterk.pdf

Urindanger

I find the tainted meat story hilarious. Canelo isn't some lad getting his meat from the dodgy local supermarket in a special bulk package for twenty quid. He's going to be using the finest stuff going, free range, organic, animals fed and washed with coconut water and avocado oil, daily massage by the finest masseuses in the world, soothing music playing in the field etc etc.

Henno30

Plenty of shady stuff in Canelo's past regarding drug testing.

Regarding Clen, I very much doubt Canelo is using something as crude as that to dope. And there's no real value in micro-dosing it. But it's a well known masking agent and great cover for a Mexican fighter when they're popped.

Morrison J

https://twitter.com/latimespugmire/status/976218983522119680

Mellor

Henno30 wrote: »

But it's a well known masking agent and great cover for a Mexican fighter when they're popped.

I've heard that suggested. But I'm not sure how the mechanism is supposed to work.
It seems to suggested that everything detected is a masking agent. Even weed or coke. Hard to know what to believe.

Morrison J

What to do if you're GGG?

Pull out and lose one half of the big payday your whole career has been building towards.

or

Stay put and hope he can knock out a roided up Canelo knowing well he'll get robbed if it goes to the cards.

Tough call.

walshb

GGG should go ahead with the fight...

Roided up? No need to over-exaggerate here, unless I have missed something!

Very very small traces of Clenbuterol....

Not HGH or Stanozolol....

normanoffside

GGG flat out accuses him of continually doping here, but says he will still fight him.

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/22849968/gennady-golovkin-thinks-canelo-alvarez-oscar-de-la-hoya-doping-cheats

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

GGG should go ahead with the fight...

Roided up? No need to over-exaggerate here, unless I have missed something!

Very very small traces of Clenbuterol....

Not HGH or Stanozolol....

GGG has said he thinks Canelo fights roided up and this isn't an anomaly.

So in his mind he's choosing between the two options I detailed above.

walshb

GGG needs to keep his mouth shut..

Where was he and his claims last year? Not saying he didn’t think it last year, but maybe he didn’t, and is now using this situation to his own benefit...

Now he is jumping on it and putting the knife in..when he knows it’s safe, and a free for all.

Canelo did not fail tests last year or the years before for steroids..

GGG is only trying to big himself up in making out he fought this drugged up monster...

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

GGG needs to keep his mouth shut..

Where was he and his claims last year? Not saying he didn’t think it last year, but maybe he didn’t, and is now using this situation to his own benefit...

Now he is jumping on it and putting the knife in..when he knows it’s safe, and a free for all.

Canelo did not fail tests last year or the years before for steroids..

GGG is only trying to big himself up in making out he fought this drugged up monster...

Well Canelo hadn't failed a test last year had he? GGG had no proof to back up any allegations. Now he does so he brings it up. I think that's completely fair. If he thinks Canelo is a drugs cheat than he should call him out for it. I see no issue there.

I also don't think it's of any benefit for him to say what he's saying anyway. All its doing is damaging how reputable the fight is which is only going to affect sales negatively.

Hopefully the Nevada commission deal with all this appropriately but for some reason I'm not expecting sense to prevail. Too much money involved.

Mellor

Morrison J wrote: »

Well Canelo hadn't failed a test last year had he? GGG had no proof to back up any allegations. Now he does so he brings it up. I think that's completely fair. If he thinks Canelo is a drugs cheat than he should call him out for it. I see no issue there. .

He had the same proof of steroids last year that he has now. The needle marks he "seen".

Morrison J

Mellor wrote: »

He had the same proof of steroids last year that he has now. The needle marks he "seen".

Right. Change "steroids" to "PEDs" so. He's failed two tests for PEDs, that's a lot more proof than last year.

normanoffside

Fight is in Jeopardy now.
Canelo is suspended pending a hearing into his positive test on April 10th...

Morrison J

This is really showing up the bad, corrupt side of boxing. All of this was going to be entirely thrown under the carpet until GGG spoke up and forced them to take some kind of action. Canelo fails two tests in February and no action is taken, GGG speaks out angrily about it, puts it into further headlines and one week later some action is taken. Some coincidence.

I'll still be shocked if the fight doesn't go ahead. They'll find some way of wording it to get Canelo out of it. Too much money to lose for the fight not to happen.

I want the fight to happen but at the same time I'd love GGG to say **** them and pull out. He's being completely taken advantage of here.

eliterank

If GGG tested positive, 100% the fight would be cancelled.

Mellor

Morrison J wrote: »

Right. Change "steroids" to "PEDs" so. He's failed two tests for PEDs, that's a lot more proof than last year.

GGG wasn't refering to clenbuterol though. He specifically mentioned needle marks.

Ultimate Seduction

I see spike o Sullivan all last week saying his fighting Canelo is September now he thinks he'll be fighting GGG if Canelo is banned. Is he off his nut, no way he gets either of them . Eubank literally boxed the ears off him

Morrison J

Mellor wrote: »

GGG wasn't refering to clenbuterol though. He specifically mentioned needle marks.

He mentioned needle marks, pills and the general idea of him not being clean. I suppose the failed test for clenbuterol shows he's taken something to try to get an edge. GGG is well within his right to then bring up other concerns he has now too.

There's only one side to blame and that's Canelo's. GGG is 100% in the right here. If anything GGG is being incredibly restrained. In his mind he went into a fight needing to KO a juiced up P4P fighter to have a chance of winning. He should be going on an absolute tirade given the injustice of it.

Morrison J

This is interesting. Saunders-GGG looking like more and more of a possibility. Think that fight excites me more anyway tbh.

https://twitter.com/danrafaelespn/status/977951417896972291

https://twitter.com/danrafaelespn/status/977952270443843584

https://twitter.com/danrafaelespn/status/977952556700917765

normanoffside

I'll be glad if this is cancelled. Makes a statement that doping is not acceptable in boxing. Besides GGG won the first fight in most peoples eyes and I would like to see hin in with BJS.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

He mentioned needle marks, pills and the general idea of him not being clean. I suppose the failed test for clenbuterol shows he's taken something to try to get an edge. GGG is well within his right to then bring up other concerns he has now too.

There's only one side to blame and that's Canelo's. GGG is 100% in the right here. If anything GGG is being incredibly restrained. In his mind he went into a fight needing to KO a juiced up P4P fighter to have a chance of winning. He should be going on an absolute tirade given the injustice of it.

I can’t take a lot of this sincerely. You are way OTT anti Canelo, and always have been..

Using descriptions like juiced up and taking Clenbuterol to get an edge...

It’s quite possible that he ingested it accidentally, didn’t get any edge, and didn’t intend to get an “illegal” edge..

dinorebel

walshb wrote: »

I can’t take a lot of this sincerely. You are way OTT anti Canelo, and always have been..

Using descriptions like juiced up and taking Clenbuterol to get an edge...

It’s quite possible that he ingested it accidentally, didn’t get any edge, and didn’t intend to get an “illegal” edge..

So why were his Clenbutorol levels at least double that of any other Mexican giving the tainted meat excuse reason?

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

I can’t take a lot of this sincerely. You are way OTT anti Canelo, and always have been..

Using descriptions like juiced up and taking Clenbuterol to get an edge...

It’s quite possible that he ingested it accidentally, didn’t get any edge, and didn’t intend to get an “illegal” edge..

I said "In GGG's mind", never gave my opinion.