US Voting Rules & ID Requirements

Leroy42

Jcarroll07 wrote: »

Nody wrote: »

It would be federal if the stated aim (avoid voter fraud) was true as this would apply for all states and all elections. This would also be the point of the state paying for the voter ID to ensure everyone had it through a federal entity (post office or similar). It would then be up to the states if they wished to add any other IDs as valid on top of that.

Ya but whats wrong with doing it through the states? They are supposed to deal with these kind of issues. Unless it is a thing that you dont trust the states to be able to deal with it?
But I dont see how that is the case. If it can be dealt with by the states, which it can, then it should be left for them to deal with. The who point of the federal systems is to allow them take different approaches to the same issues if thats what the people living in those areas want.

Its not a matter of trusting the states, certain states (normally but not limited to GOP controlled states) have shown themselves to be very open to politicising the whole system. Why would anybody continue to trust a system rhat has shown itself unreliable?

Jcarroll07

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its not a matter of trusting the states, certain states (normally but not limited to GOP controlled states) have shown themselves to be very open to politicising the whole system. Why would anybody continue to trust a system rhat has shown itself unreliable?

Ah ok so you don't like the idea that the Republican control the majority of state legislators and govern-ships ect and so would like the federal government to over rule them. Well unfortunately depending which side you are coming from the system was specifically designed to prevent that. Plus the idea that its most republicans that politicise such situations is just a little disingenuous.

Leroy42

I never said any of that.

The question was asked why not trust the states to do it and I pointed out why the states cannot be trusted.

Overheal

Jcarroll07 wrote: »

Ah ok so you don't like the idea that the Republican control the majority of state legislators and govern-ships ect and so would like the federal government to over rule them. Well unfortunately depending which side you are coming from the system was specifically designed to prevent that. Plus the idea that its most republicans that politicise such situations is just a little disingenuous.

I would direct you to the court decision I posted earlier in the thread which describes in some length and detail how you have no idea what you’re talking about.

eire4

I have to laugh at the excuses been thrown out to try and avoid the fact that this is a non issue which could easily be solved.
In my post I never said the federal government impose anything. I said the states could put together their own ID's which would be guaranteed to allow a person who needs one to vote. The federal governments role would be to offer financial help so these ID's and any documents needed to obtain them would be free and that these ID's could be obtained at post offices as there are post offices in pretty much every community. So in other words the states would make their own ID's and the federal governments role would simply be to help make them free and easily distributed.

But of course this has never been about voter integrity it has always been about voter suppression and the fact that a proposal such as put forward above which would solve the issue has never been brought forward shows that.

Overheal

Pennsylvania gerrymandering had the nails put in its coffin, SCOTUS rejects appeal to re-hear the lower court's case. The state must now redraw its districts

Republicans won 13 of Pennsylvania’s 18 congressional seats in November 2016, even though voters statewide were roughly evenly split between Democrats and Republicans.

Republicans in Pennsylvania have also tried to get the state supreme court to toss its 5-2 decision by alleging that one of the Democratic justices should have recused himself over comments he made opposing gerrymandering in 2015. This effort is also unlikely to succeed. As Mother Jones reported, one of the Republican justices who dissented in the gerrymandering case received a $25,000 campaign donation from Senate President Pro Tempore Joseph Scarnati, one of the Republican defendants in the case. The justice, Sallie Mundy, did not disclose the donation during the case, although it was reported in campaign finance filings.

On the top map you can see the county map overlayed by the district map, which cuts and portions counties with abandon in what is a pretty QED attempt at gerrymandering. 'Safe' counties are kept whole while counties like Erie, Lawrence, Clarion, Greene, Montgomery, Cambria, Berks. Somerset, Lancaster, Monroe and plenty others are butchered up to divide and conquer.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/02/supreme-court-clears-way-for-pennsylvania-to-draw-new-congressional-map/




The 7th District was particularly bad, with parts of the district getting running through a parking lot to maintain continuity (On the rop-right portion connecting the middle portion)

Manic Moran

On related notes, an actual Illinois Nazi is looking at being the GOP candidate in the Illinois 3rd District, in Chicago. He's been at it since 1976, and may well be part of the inspiration for the Blues Brothers crowd. (The reason he got the nomination was that in that incredibly blue central Chicago district, no GOP was going to waste time and effort trying).

However, when researching, I noticed Illinois' 4th Congressional district, right next door.


Note that for a good stretch, it's Interstate 294. Population of that bit, 0. It also seems to be held together by a railway line up North.

Overheal

which website did you use for the map, i tried using google maps but it wasn't helping

Cookie_Monster

Manic Moran wrote: »

However, when researching, I noticed Illinois' 4th Congressional district, right next door.

Note that for a good stretch, it's Interstate 294. Population of that bit, 0. It also seems to be held together by a railway line up North.

How can anyone look at that and think it represents a fair division of any kind?

Overheal

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

How can anyone look at that and think it represents a fair division of any kind?

Yet apparently IL is a DNC gerrymandering operation and the state constitution hasn't been rigid enough to stop this farce.

Cookie_Monster

Overheal wrote: »

which website did you use for the map, i tried using google maps but it wasn't helping

not the best, but you can get an idea of most of them from wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_congressional_districts

oscarBravo

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/pa-lawmaker-hopes-to-impeach-justices-who-nixed-gerrymander.html

The US really is busy tearing itself apart in a fever of insane partisanship.

Overheal

Wow.

eire4

oscarBravo wrote: »

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/pa-lawmaker-hopes-to-impeach-justices-who-nixed-gerrymander.html

The US really is busy tearing itself apart in a fever of insane partisanship.

What the article does not mention is that in the last election despite the vote basically being split down the middle the Republicans thanks to the gerrymandering won 13 of the 18 congressional districts.

But in terms of what the article is pointing to is indeed a scary trend towards authoritarianism in the US. The Republicans used to claim they were the party of law and order well clearly lead by a man who has no respect for a neutral and non partisan judiciary the opposite is the case today.

FreudianSlippers

oscarBravo wrote: »

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/pa-lawmaker-hopes-to-impeach-justices-who-nixed-gerrymander.html

The US really is busy tearing itself apart in a fever of insane partisanship.

Honestly, I frequently think that reunification at the end of the Civil War might have been one of the worst things that could have happened to the US on a whole.