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Is Hell Real ?

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    #152
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    Reread my edited post.

    The answer's the same. So, you believe you are heaven bound and you believe you can identify the Vicar of Christ as being effectively an Anti-Christ.


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    #153
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Avatar MIA wrote:
    The answer's the same. So, you believe you are heaven bound and you believe you can identify the Vicar of Christ as being effectively an Anti-Christ.


    The true pope is Benedict XVI.


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    #154
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    The true pope is Benedict XVI.

    He and pretty much the entire Catholic Church believe otherwise.


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    #155
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Avatar MIA wrote:
    He and pretty much the entire Catholic Church believe otherwise.


    The antichrist will deceive many.


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    #156
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Yes, the above is the stock answer. I'm familiar with this.

    To save time, how far have you followed the stock answer to find it wanting such that this becomes a favorite of yours. You say Joseph wasn't Jesus' father, when in fact he was, legally.

    That means there is a legal lineage running back from Jesus. I take it the stock answer for the point of that also doesn't satisfy?


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    #157
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    I'm afraid that you are wrong there. I will go to Heaven because I am a Son of God.

    If someone doesn't believe in god...and then when they die they see him...they believe...they say sorry...surely we're all getting in?

    One of the (many) things I don't get about christianity is that the oft touted situation of a rapist paedophile priest who's done his (apparent) penance gets to heaven because they've always been a believer and asked forgiveness but someone who never knew christianity or had no belief despite being a really good person would not get into heaven.

    Doesn't seem like a terribly fair or decent system to me, as a life-long outsider. Would you agree with it or do you think it happens differently? Are those the kind of people you want or expect to be surrounded by in the eternal afterlife? Are the only people getting in free of all sin, or are some sins greater than others?


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    #158
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    The antichrist will deceive many.

    He did a decent job with the Pope Emeritus. :pac:


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    #159
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    PopePalpatine wrote:
    He did a decent job with the Pope Emeritus.


    Benedict's seat was usurped. The present guy is not the true pope. Have you ever listened to what he says, I mean when he is not speaking from a script. It is outrageous!


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    #160
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    GritBiscuit wrote: »
    If someone doesn't believe in god...and then when they die they see him...they believe...they say sorry...surely we're all getting in?

    One of the (many) things I don't get about christianity is that the oft touted situation of a rapist paedophile priest who's done his (apparent) penance gets to heaven because they've always been a believer and asked forgiveness but someone who never knew christianity or had no belief despite being a really good person would not get into heaven.

    Doesn't seem like a terribly fair or decent system to me, as a life-long outsider. Would you agree with it or do you think it happens differently? Are those the kind of people you want or expect to be surrounded by in the eternal afterlife? Are the only people getting in free of all sin, or are some sins greater than others?

    God: apparently very selective about who is let into the kingdom of heaven, usually those who subscribe only to certain principles/beliefs and who spend their lives in worship to and devoted to said god. Very narcissitic I must say....

    Devil: has no omissions list and does not require any such devotion.

    Me: perhaps the world has these titles reversed..............


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    #161
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Someone who never knew Christ but lives a moral life will of course enter Heaven. Remember Christ is a merciful Judge, and weighs up all factors.


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    #162
    Jerichoholic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Jerichoholic


    The Youtube clip was proven since to be taken from a movie.


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    #163
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    To save time, how far have you followed the stock answer to find it wanting such that this becomes a favorite of yours. You say Joseph wasn't Jesus' father, when in fact he was, legally.

    That means there is a legal lineage running back from Jesus. I take it the stock answer for the point of that also doesn't satisfy?

    *Lights the Oldrnwisr signal to see what he thinks about this claim.*


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    #164
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    Someone who never knew Christ but lives a moral life will of course enter Heaven. Remember Christ is a merciful Judge, and weighs up all factors.

    I've never known, nor am I likely to know your god. All I keep hearing about him is fire and brimstone for the good guys and life-times in nirvana for the depraved yet faithful. It's very off-putting.
    jaxxx wrote: »
    God: apparently very selective about who is let into the kingdom of heaven, usually those who subscribe only to certain principles/beliefs and who spend their lives in worship to and devoted to said god. Very narcissitic I must say....

    Devil: has no omissions list and does not require any such devotion.

    Me: perhaps the world has these titles reversed..............

    The whole..."I'll forgive anything (like, frigging A-NY-THING!) as long as it isn't disbelief or "lack of faith" is something I could never wrap my head around. I can rape children, murder, treat everyone like dirt, vote republican - as long as I cruise past the confessional occasionally it's all fine and dandy....but dare to be an atheist, an atheist who adopted 25 kids, an atheist who works pro-bono for numerous human rights groups, doesn't matter...hell bound fire for eternity. Huh?

    Ugh.


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    #165
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    GritBiscuit wrote:
    I've never known, nor am I likely to know your god. All I keep hearing about him is fire and brimstone for the good guys and life times in nirvana. It's very off-putting.


    Have you never heard about Jesus Christ and how he alleviated pain and suffering?


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    #166
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    GritBiscuit wrote:
    The whole..."I'll forgive anything (like, frigging A-NY-THING!) as long as it isn't disbelief or "lack of faith" is something I could never wrap my head around. I can rape children, murder, treat everyone like dirt, vote republican - as long as I cruise past the confessional occasionally it's all fine and dandy....but dare to be an atheist, an atheist who adopted 25 kids, an atheist who works pro-bono for numerous human rights groups, doesn't matter...hell bound fire for eternity. Huh?


    I'm afraid that you cannot cruise past the confessional. Do you think you can fool God?


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    #167
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    I'm afraid that you cannot cruise past the confessional. Do you think you can fool God?

    Hmmm... Mother Theresa was beatified and the Vatican hasn't paid a cent in retribution to their many, many victims...so I'd have to go with...yes. As things stand...you clearly can.
    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    Have you never heard about Jesus Christ and how he alleviated pain and suffering?

    He's the son AND the omnipotent father that created all the pain and suffering tho, right? Cos he made the world and everything in it? And if he wanted to make a world free of suffering he could... but he didn't and we've to thank him for alleviating some of the pain and suffering that only exists because he made it that way...do I have that right? confused.png


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    #168
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    GritBiscuit wrote:
    He's the son AND the omnipotent father that created all the pain and suffering tho, right? Cos he made the world and everything in it? And if he wanted to make a world free of suffering he could... but he didn't and we've to thank him for alleviating some of the pain and suffering that only exists because he made it that way...do I have that right?


    You are His hands and feet.


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    #169
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    You are His hands and feet.

    Ah Oweny...I was so hoping for something a wee bit different.....a wee bit........more.

    My eternal damnation/disappointment marches on.


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    #170
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    GritBiscuit wrote:
    Hmmm... Mother Theresa was beatified and the Vatican hasn't paid a cent in retribution to their many, many victims...so I'd have to go with...yes. As things stand...you clearly can.


    What kind of sh**e do you listen to?


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    #171
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    What kind of sh**e do you listen to?

    Hmmm...now that you mention it...:o


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    #172
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    GritBiscuit wrote:
    Hmmm...now that you mention it...


    Mother Teresa understood the value of suffering, and tried to alleviate it. Do you remember the suffering that the Son of God went through? And He did it for you, personally. He suffered and died for YOU, personally.


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    #173
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    Mother Teresa understood the value of suffering, and tried to alleviate it. Do you remember the suffering that the Son of God went through? And He did it for you, personally. He suffered and died for YOU, personally.

    The woman who skimmed money off the poorest in Calcutta for her church. What a hero.

    The son who was the father and the holy ghost? The omnipotent god who knew he couldn't die or could live again even if he was killed? He who could bend the laws of biology, chemistry and physics in order to create his own world order. And he suffered and did what for me, personally? The only suffering was at his own hand...and he didn't die...


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    #174
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    GritBiscuit wrote:
    The woman who skimmed money off the poorest in Calcutta for her church. What a hero.


    We will leave it to the omnipotent God to judge her. Which of us can throw stones?


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    #175
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    GritBiscuit wrote:
    My eternal damnation/disappointment marches on.


    Sure does!


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    #176
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    We will leave it to the omnipotent God to judge her. Which of us can throw stones?

    Sure we can all throw stones...more of that marvellous free will...
    Pure irony tho, the false idols and self aggrandisement - at this rate the only people in heaven will be the atheists, wouldn't that be hillarious. :p


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    #177
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    I'm warning you that it's not fiction.

    Yet warnings are not evidence. If you want to elevate a single book above fiction then you need evidence not vague threats.

    Have you ANY arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to offer that suggests our universe was created and/or is being maintained by a non-human intelligent and intentional agent?

    A simple "no" will do if you find more threats and scare mongering are the sole content of and reply you can muster?
    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    Mother Teresa understood the value of suffering

    While suffering is not valueless, I see little utility in intentionally prolonging it the way she did.

    This forum has a minimum, and possibly maximum, of one user who takes the Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu approach to human development too. The kind of thinking that opposes alleviating suffering so that people suffering can be motivated through suffering to better themselves.

    And this involves asserting positions such as the removal of social welfare and child allowance from single mothers. Because apparently leaving the worse off of them festering in a poverty they can not climb out of will somehow elevate them to a better life.

    So rather than merely assert to use the value of suffering, perhaps you could demonstrate it. Because I see no utility in the horrors people like you and he wish to perpetuate for no good reason other than being spend thrifts with their tax money. Again substantiation with something a little more lofty and substantive than mere doomsaying and scare mongering and threats would be useful here.
    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    Do you remember the suffering that the Son of God went through? And He did it for you, personally. He suffered and died for YOU, personally.

    I was very young then. I claim nor accept no association for an act that I was in no position to accept OR stop and would have campaigned against had I been socially active at the time. Even if there was evidence that the act was actually perpetuated in reality.

    However I am unimpressed by the Nazarene Fables. This claim some dude gave his life for us as a sacrifice. But in the next breath we are told said dude still lives in a state of ETERNAL bliss and dominion. Clearly some people would do well to buy a dictionary and look up the word "sacrifice" follow quickly by the word "dead". Because your fairy tale of choice does not describe a live sacrificed, but one traded up.

    There is likely very few humans alive who would not accept a few days of torture in lieu of an ETERNITY of bliss and dominion. And you want to sell this story as something to be lauded rather than pitied?

    You need better fairy tales. The ones you have are actually nothing better than an insult against those humans who HAVE actually given their lives......... with no promise of eternal reward........ for a person, a place, or an ideal.


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    #178
    RichieO
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭RichieO


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    What kind of sh**e do you listen to?


    FFS, OMG, You are the best troll ever, well done you, now leave while I'm still laughing...


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    #179
    Zerbini Blewitt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Zerbini Blewitt


    qwadb78ejp260i wrote: »
    Someone who never knew Christ but lives a moral life will of course enter Heaven. Remember Christ is a merciful Judge, and weighs up all factors.
    Can a new entrant into Heaven do anything they want from then on (or are there still certain restrictions or rules)?


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    #180
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    nozzferrahhtoo wrote:
    I was very young then. I claim nor accept no association for an act that I was in no position to accept OR stop and would have campaigned against had I been socially active at the time. Even if there was evidence that the act was actually perpetuated in reality.

    nozzferrahhtoo wrote:
    However I am unimpressed by the Nazarene Fables. This claim some dude gave his life for us as a sacrifice. But in the next breath we are told said dude still lives in a state of ETERNAL bliss and dominion. Clearly some people would do well to buy a dictionary and look up the word "sacrifice" follow quickly by the word "dead". Because your fairy tale of choice does not describe a live sacrificed, but one traded up.

    nozzferrahhtoo wrote:
    There is likely very few humans alive who would not accept a few days of torture in lieu of an ETERNITY of bliss and dominion. And you want to sell this story as something to be lauded rather than pitied?

    nozzferrahhtoo wrote:
    You need better fairy tales. The ones you have are actually nothing better than an insult against those humans who HAVE actually given their lives......... with no promise of eternal reward........ for a person, a place, or an ideal.

    Again, goodbye.


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    #181
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Zerbini Blewitt wrote:
    Can a new entrant into Heaven do anything they want from then on (or are there still certain restrictions or rules)?

    How do you mean, anything thy want? Do you mean sin? Because if you do, you will not enter Heaven in the first place.


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