Jordan Peterson interview on C4

El_Duderino 09

Mountainsandh wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Presumably so. Can I take it for granted that Peterson and his followers have their houses in PERFECT order before he could criticise the left and the young people? Or is he immune from this own advice, I wonder?

The guy looks healthier and handsomer at whatever age he is now than he looked in his 40s. He's on an all meat diet and reckons it has cleared his depression and a number of other ailments he suffered from. He has finished his first book, and written another one, with another one in the pipeline if I understand right. He's fit and travelling the world, and making a lot of money. His family are well.

I think he pretty much has that house in order thing sussed out, but if he hasn't he'll be the first to admit it.

That sounds like a true zealot speaking.

Doesn’t the term ‘get your own house in PERFECT order before you criticise the world’ suggest it’s a constant work in progress? Perfection is surely something which can never be achieved so you can never actually criticise the world -even though he spends a lot of his sermons criticising the left and the young people.

If his followers actually took him seriously, they wouldn’t be telling other people to heed Peterson because they would be so busy getting their own house in PERFECT order.

Mountainsandh

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That sounds like a true zealot speaking.

Doesn’t the term ‘get your own house in PERFECT order before you criticise the world’ suggest it’s a constant work in progress? Perfection is surely something which can never be achieved so you can never actually criticise the world -even though he spends a lot of his sermons criticising the left and the young people.

If his followers actually took him seriously, they wouldn’t be telling other people to heed Peterson because they would be so busy getting their own house in PERFECT order.

Ok whatever, about the house in order thing, I said before I think the 12 rules are the breadwinner, and I don't think they are as important as the other things he talks about.

Define me as zealot if you like, all this effort spent in trying to personalize things when you could maybe just go on his channel, have a look at other stuff than the political stuff, and get a fairer picture of the guy behind the persona while learning something.
Just forget about all the political stuff for a minute, and go see if there's something on there you might like or be interested in. I did so at first just to get a broader picture and suss out the guy, and now I just listen to the lectures because they're interesting (I play Candy Crush and other thoughtless games on Facebook at the same time ).

I don't mean this in an incendiary way, and neither do I mean it in a "I've won the battle nah nah nah nah" way, but I really do not care much how people on here want to define me, and I'm not interested in explaining whether I'd jump off a cliff if he said to do so.


edit : tonight I'm on "2016 Personality Lecture 08: Existentialism: Nietzsche, Dostoevsky and Social Hierarchy". There's bits about babies becoming social beings, with some passing reference to breast feeding, and now he's gone on to Nietzsche, that's a bit harder to follow but I just get what I get out of that and don't feel under pressure to understand or remember everything. Don't listen to that one if you listen to anything actually, he goes on to the lobsters, you'd only be getting your blood pressure up.

Raging_Ninja

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That sounds like a true zealot speaking.

Doesn’t the term ‘get your own house in PERFECT order before you criticise the world’ suggest it’s a constant work in progress? Perfection is surely something which can never be achieved so you can never actually criticise the world -even though he spends a lot of his sermons criticising the left and the young people.

If his followers actually took him seriously, they wouldn’t be telling other people to heed Peterson because they would be so busy getting their own house in PERFECT order.

I think you're placing too much importance on a single word and basing your opinions of the guy on that single word.

El_Duderino 09

Mountainsandh wrote: »

edit : tonight I'm on "2016 Personality Lecture 08: Existentialism: Nietzsche, Dostoevsky and Social Hierarchy". There's bits about babies becoming social beings, with some passing reference to breast feeding, and now he's gone on to Nietzsche, that's a bit harder to follow but I just get what I get out of that and don't feel under pressure to understand or remember everything. Don't listen to that one if you listen to anything actually, he goes on to the lobsters, you'd only be getting your blood pressure up.

I've never mentioned a problem with the lobster stuff.

I challenge Peterson's followers to claim they understand a tenth of the tricky stuff. Metaphysical substrates, the god nonsense, and especially the Nietzsche stuff. If you're claiming to understand it, you're fooling yourself. It's like a postmodern random word generator.

Peterson's followers never challenge the tricky stuff because they don't understand it and there's no way they could discuss it let alone argue about it. They swallow that stuff whole and presume Peterson is fierce clever alltogether. He throws in some easily digestible stuff like young people know nothing and the left is doing it all wrong and BINGO! He's a hit with people who are conservative and don't actually have a clue what he's talking about.

El_Duderino 09

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That sounds like a true zealot speaking.

Doesn’t the term ‘get your own house in PERFECT order before you criticise the world’ suggest it’s a constant work in progress? Perfection is surely something which can never be achieved so you can never actually criticise the world -even though he spends a lot of his sermons criticising the left and the young people.

If his followers actually took him seriously, they wouldn’t be telling other people to heed Peterson because they would be so busy getting their own house in PERFECT order.

I think you're placing too much importance on a single word and basing your opinions of the guy on that single word.

'Be precise in your speech' is one of his commandments.
If his followers took him seriously it would be a problem. But they don't so it's not too bad. They just go on about how other people should watch his lectures which is harmless enough.

backspin.

El_Duderino what is dangerous about Jordan Peterson? What has you exercised enough to try so hard to rubbish him?

If he is just a pound shop intellectual spouting nonsense to the plebs why are you even bothered enough to talk about it.

WinnyThePoo

Because people are wrongly equating him as a great thinker and someone above criticism. He wants your Euros and Dollars. In that respect he certainly is intelligent.

backspin.

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Because people are wrongly equating him as a great thinker and someone above criticism. He wants your Euros and Dollars. In that respect he certainly is intelligent.

You know you don't have to listen to him right.

And who thinks he shouldn't be criticized?

I notice most of the anti-peterson posters and those thanking their posts are all well known leftists on boards. It can't be the clean your room and stand up straight stuff that has them rattled. It must be something else.. hmmm I wonder what that is?

WinnyThePoo

backspin. wrote: »

You know you don't have to listen to him right.

And who thinks he shouldn't be criticized?

I notice most of the anti-peterson posters and those thanking their posts are all well known leftists on boards. It can't be the clean your room and stand up straight stuff that has them rattled. It must be something else.. hmmm I wonder what that is?

Well I can certainly see why your attracted to him. All his bish bosh about the 'left' whatever that means.

As I said, he selling a certain type of person what they want to hear. He's been incredibly effective at that. I certainly don't think he believes some of the bat**** crazy stuff he comes out with, but his cash cow do and all the power to him.

backspin.

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Well I can certainly see why your attracted to him. All his bish bosh about the 'left' whatever that means.

As I said, he selling a certain type of person what they want to hear. He's been incredibly effective at that. I certainly don't think he believes some of the bat**** crazy stuff he comes out with, but his cash cow do and all the power to him.

He freely admits he is thinking out loud at times, I don't think he expects everyone to agree with him. Do you agree with everything you hear from anyone out there i doubt it. Most people listening to Peterson will agree with him on some things and not others.

But he speaks enough sense and makes some points that really resonate with people. So people are interested.

I'm still not clear why people like you are do bothered by him though. It can't be concern that the plebs are getting separated from their money by a charlatan. You are clearly threatened by his message and reach.

WinnyThePoo

Im clearly threatened. Oh lol.

This is a forum. With numerous subjects.

backspin.

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Im clearly threatened. Oh lol.

This is a forum. With numerous subjects.

Winny go clean your room.

WinnyThePoo

backspin. wrote: »

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Im clearly threatened. Oh lol.

This is a forum. With numerous subjects.

Winny go clean your room.

Same goes to you

7aubzxk43m2sni

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Well I can certainly see why your attracted to him. All his bish bosh about the 'left' whatever that means.

As I said, he selling a certain type of person what they want to hear. He's been incredibly effective at that. I certainly don't think he believes some of the bat**** crazy stuff he comes out with, but his cash cow do and all the power to him.

What has he said thats batsh1t crazy?

storker

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Well I can certainly see why your attracted to him. All his bish bosh about the 'left' whatever that means.

As I said, he selling a certain type of person what they want to hear. He's been incredibly effective at that. I certainly don't think he believes some of the bat**** crazy stuff he comes out with, but his cash cow do and all the power to him.

What certain type of person is that and what do they want to hear?

What does he say about he the left that's er..."bish bosh" (whatever that means) and why?

El_Duderino 09

backspin. wrote: »

I notice most of the anti-peterson posters and those thanking their posts are all well known leftists on boards. It can't be the clean your room and stand up straight stuff that has them rattled. It must be something else.. hmmm I wonder what that is?

The clean your room stuff is just bog standard good advice.

The tricky stuff is boring and impenetrable and I don’t believe for a second that his followers have a clue what he’s on about. I suspect he uses the word salad to convince his followers that he’s fierce clever with all his big words.

The bit that annoys me is the idea that young people know ‘literally nothing’ and everything is the left’s fault. Even the right wing extremists are the left’s fault. That’s just selling anti-left stuff to people who want to hear anti-left stuff.

It’s Fox News with big words. Some people seem to find his whole product very entertaining.

The stuff he’s right about is trivial. The god/Nietzsche stuff is word salad, and the anti left, anti young people stuff is just entertainment for people who already think the left and the young people are doing things wrong.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The tricky stuff is boring and impenetrable and I don’t believe for a second that his followers have a clue what he’s on about. I suspect he uses the word salad to convince his followers that he’s fierce clever with all his big words.

He's a prolific author of academic research in his own field, and has taught at Harvard. He may be arrogant, he may even be a prick, but I don't think he is bluffing on his intelligence.

WinnyThePoo

storker wrote: »

What certain type of person is that and what do they want to hear?

What does he say about he the left that's er..."bish bosh" (whatever that means) and why?

You don't know what bish bosh means? Well that's just bish bosh.

Unfortunately due to Peterson instructions I'm stuck cleaning my room , but my advice is watch as much his videos as possible , he should should explain pretty clearly :pac: what the all encompassing left are.

Then you can follow up by investing in his Patreon and Buy his books. If you like his message, keep buying.

RandomName2

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You don't know what bish bosh means? Well that's just bish bosh.

Unfortunately due to Peterson instructions I'm stuck cleaning my room , but my advice is watch as much his videos as possible , he should should explain pretty clearly :pac: what the all encompassing left are.

Then you can follow up by investing in his Patreon and Buy his books. If you like his message, keep buying.

The 'left' or 'right' aside, there are those who seem to blindly follow (or 'thank' in the case of boards) anybody who they see as being on the same side as themselves, and attack anyone they see as being an opponent.

These people seem to argue for the sake of arguing, attempting to score points rather than win arguments, and are likely to get hung up on a minor issue, perhaps even an individual word, in a desperate attempt to show everyone how their side is the correct one.

You can be pretty much guaranteed that these people are unlikely to discuss larger issues, or use evidence based approaches, as this could destroy their position if they turn out to be wrong, and being right is only ever incidental. That suits them because they see themselves as being overall decent people, looking out for the little guy, so it doesn't really matter in the long-run if their discourse is bottom-feeder rubbish, because in the long run, in their view, they're right.

Zubeneschamali

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't think he is bluffing on his intelligence.

I don't think so either - I just think he is applying it to extracting cash from gullible white dudes instead of his academic studies.


So if he talks nonsense about lobsters or ants (neither of which are anything to do with his area of study) his intelligence lends this spoofery a gloss.

storker

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You don't know what bish bosh means? Well that's just bish bosh.

Unfortunately due to Peterson instructions I'm stuck cleaning my room , but my advice is watch as much his videos as possible , he should should explain pretty clearly :pac: what the all encompassing left are.

Then you can follow up by investing in his Patreon and Buy his books. If you like his message, keep buying.

No answer then. As I suspected.

WinnyThePoo

storker wrote: »

No answer then. As I suspected.

I did answer you.

You asked what sort of person is that and what do they want to hear?

I told you to watch as much as much of Peterson and then see if you like what you hear..

You asked what bish bosh meant. I can't be blamed on your laziness.

So go ahead and watch his videos. You'll find out plenty about the 'left' from Peterson, though he isn't saying it for himself. He saying it for a particular type of audience.

backspin.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The tricky stuff is boring and impenetrable and I don’t believe for a second that his followers have a clue what he’s on about.

What so you don't understand it so it must be nonsense and nobody else could possibly understand it.

Such arrogance.

backspin.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So if he talks nonsense about lobsters or ants (neither of which are anything to do with his area of study) his intelligence lends this spoofery a gloss.

Do you even know why he referenced lobsters?

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So if he talks nonsense about lobsters or ants (neither of which are anything to do with his area of study) his intelligence lends this spoofery a gloss.

Is it possible to clear this up for once and for all?

What exactly is the problem with the reference to hierarchies in lobsters?

I've seen a lot of mention of this online, and most of the criticism seems not to be based on what Peterson is actually saying.

Mountainsandh

backspin. wrote: »

What so you don't understand it so it must be nonsense and nobody else could possibly understand it.

Such arrogance.

I think it's kind of trolling really, a desperate attempt to rile people up.

El Duderino, it's like anything, if you listen to enough of the word salad, it starts to make sense. It's philosophy, mythology, psychology, and other -ogys combined so yeah, it's not your 12 rules for life.

He's not an easy lecturer to follow, you have to get used to his fast thinking and branching out style, but the broad ideas and basic concepts are repeated often, and the more you listen the more you recognize. He's very consistent across lectures and conferences, so if he branched something in a lecture once that went over your head, you can be sure that'll be repeated and re-explained some place else.

You seem to be attempting to put me, and other JP's followers, in a position of defending or proving something always. You seem to look for a sanguine reaction rather than really attempting to understand.

That's ok, but it means not much discussion can be had really other than :
"he's full of **** and you're all fools."
"try and understand what he's at for real".

I was going to engage in demonstrating the bits I do understand (not all, as I said, far from it) but there is no point really, unless you are genuinely interested in any of it. You're very clearly saying you're not.

edit : oh, and apologies about the lobsters, it seems to be a great bit of ammunition for people who don't like him so I thought you would have seized that.

Mountainsandh

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Is it possible to clear this up for once and for all?

What exactly is the problem with the reference to hierarchies in lobsters?

I've seen a lot of mention of this online, and most of the criticism seems not to be based on what Peterson is actually saying.

I don't think people who dislike him really attempt to understand the content of what he's saying, so of course the lobsters come in handy as something that can easily be ridiculed.

JP thinks it demonstrates an amazing continuity between lobsters' neurobiology/psychology and human neurobiology/psychology, opponents think it's too far fetched.

storker

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I did answer you.

You asked what sort of person is that and what do they want to hear?

I told you to watch as much as much of Peterson and then see if you like what you hear..

When I asked for the the reason why you dismiss what he says about the left as rubbish. You suggested I watch some of his videos. That's not an answer.

You asked what bish bosh meant. I can't be blamed on your laziness.

I was posting on the move. Is that your reason for not knowing what "the left" means?

So go ahead and watch his videos. You'll find out plenty about the 'left' from Peterson, though he isn't saying it for himself. He saying it for a particular type of audience.

Again this doesn't answer what I was asking.

And I have watched some Peterson videos. I wouldn't be a fan, subscriber or even regular viewer and I wouldn't agree with everything he says, but I do think he tends to attract misprepresentations of what he says and shoot-from-the-hip dismissals, so sometimes ask for more detail, as I often do whenever I hear a poorly-put argument about anything.

The same applies to the "type of person" you have decided likes his output. I know one such type of person, and it's a type I don't like, but since you brought it up, I'd like to hear what you see as being the Jordan-liker-type.

Akrasia

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't think so either - I just think he is applying it to extracting cash from gullible white dudes instead of his academic studies.


So if he talks nonsense about lobsters or ants (neither of which are anything to do with his area of study) his intelligence lends this spoofery a gloss.

If he is as intelligent as he makes himself out to be than his choice of sending out that 'Prager U' climate change denial video on twitter is even more damning. What kind of intellectual would ever dream of promoting anything by 'Prager University' unless they're doing so in the knowledge that it is intended to misinform and preach to a certain audience.

Brian?

backspin. wrote: »

What so you don't understand it so it must be nonsense and nobody else could possibly understand it.

Such arrogance.

I’m a well educated, well read gentleman. I have zero trouble understanding complex subjects, mostly.

Jordan Peterson’s lectures hurt my brain. There’s very little cohesiveness to them or they’re stupidly simple. There is nothing in between.