Liabilty Insurance

Chips Lovell

It covers commuting alright.

Insurance12

Cool so if  I scrape a car filtering or came off in ice and banged one they will pay to repair the car, if so it seems like a good deal.

rollingscone

Insurance12 wrote: »

Hi who would I ring to get full insurance for in the case I am in and accident and it's my fault. My bike is covered on my house insurance but that doesn't cover liability if I happen to cause damage to a car or person. I was wondering for a case like I fell on black ice and damaged a persons car fell onto a person on the path beside the road.

Check the all risks section of your household policy. This covers most third party liabilities and often extends outside of the house.

E.g. It's also what covers you if your dog runs out and causes an accident.

magicbastarder

Insurance12 wrote: »

Cool so if  I scrape a car filtering or came off in ice and banged one they will pay to repair the car, if so it seems like a good deal.

first question i'd have - what's the excess?
you might you'd still have to stump up for the majority of the damage in the above two scenarios, even if you have insurance.

Insurance12

magicbastarder wrote: »

Insurance12 wrote: »

Cool so if  I scrape a car filtering or came off in ice and banged one they will pay to repair the car, if so it seems like a good deal.

first question i'd have - what's the excess?
you might you'd still have to stump up for the majority of the damage in the above two scenarios, even if you have insurance.

Can anyone with a CI confirm the excess.

magicbastarder

i suspect this is a big issue with the concept of cyclist insurance; i think my excess, on both car and house insurance, is about €250.
to deter trivial claims, it's possible there's something similar on CI insurance - and for commuting for many people, the speeds they're travelling at might suggest the considerable majority of incidents would never exceed the excess, in terms of damage done.

i once cycled into the back of a taxi at maybe 25km/h - i wasn't really paying attention to the damage done to his car, but i think i left a very small dent in the bumper and possibly cracked a rear light. i'd certainly have been out of pocket for most of the damage had the excess been €250 or thereabouts.

Tenzor07

usernamegoes wrote: »

No they shouldn't force them. But if you or your kids injure someone you should have to pay for it and if you don't have insurance all other means should be taken to enforce the debt. Do you think if you injure someone they should have to pay it? Say you break someone's neck though your negligence? Should they suffer the financial burden while you pay nothing?

Sorry but that's total Horseradish!

Your kids injuring someone??

You accidently break someone's neck?

Jesus wept!

Insurance12

I cost you less then €250 to replace the light, remove the dent and get a respray? I would have thought the respray alone would be more tan €250.

How did you come to an agreement on payment with the driver?

magicbastarder

he dropped me home and never asked for a penny. forgot the 'if' in the post.

Insurance12

magicbastarder wrote: »

he dropped me home and never asked for a penny. forgot the 'if' in the post.

Lucky the repair cost would have been quite high if he wanted you to repair it.

Tenzor07

Insurance12 wrote: »

Cool so if  I scrape a car filtering or came off in ice and banged one they will pay to repair the car, if so it seems like a good deal.

Ok, i'll play...

So you're a pretty unfortunate cyclist, you scrape a parked car, are you going to write down your insurance details and leave them on the windshield?
So off you toddle happy as larry that your 50 quid insurance will pay out for say €350 worth of paint damage..
Then the next month you knock the mirror of a Merc while filtering in traffic, and boy they ain't cheap! So another €700 for the mirror...
Wow you're really clocking up the claims eh?

So insurance company says, renewal time, oh €750 for the year please... Ah but my bicycle is worth €500... Opps!

usernamegoes

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sorry but that's total Horseradish!

Your kids injuring someone??

You accidently break someone's neck?

Jesus wept!

What am I missing? Is it not possible to accidentally injure someone or damage their property? I'm not sure what your point is other than you don't like the idea of personal responsibility?

I'm not only talking about cyclists but here's a recent case.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/pedestrian-sued-cyclist-over-injuries-suffered-when-he-was-knocked-down-by-bike-on-footpath-36509443.html

Tenzor07

usernamegoes wrote: »

What am I missing? Is it not possible to accidentally injure someone? I'm not sure what your point is other than you don't like the idea of personal responsibility?

Can you give any Actual examples of what you just stated in your previous post? Kids injuring adults, people going around accidently breaking someone else's necks?

magicbastarder

Insurance12 wrote: »

Lucky the repair cost would have been quite high if he wanted you to repair it.

the dent in the bumper was literally a mm or two deep. rear light, couple of hundred quid maybe.

Insurance12

Tenzor07 wrote: »

usernamegoes wrote: »

What am I missing? Is it not possible to accidentally injure someone? I'm not sure what your point is other than you don't like the idea of personal responsibility?

Can you give any Actual examples of what you just stated in your previous post? Kids injuring adults, people going around accidently breaking someone else's necks?

Kids have run out in front of bike causing the rider to go down, who should pay for the damage to the bike and person?

Tenzor07

Insurance12 wrote: »

Kids have run out in front of bike causing the rider to go down, who should pay for the damage to the bike and person?

So how exactly can you hold a minor legally liable in that case?

Insurance12

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Insurance12 wrote: »

Kids have run out in front of bike causing the rider to go down, who should pay for the damage to the bike and person?

So how exactly can you hold a minor legally liable in that case?

Sue the legal guardians?

magicbastarder

a brave new world.

how much of an issue is this, that we will need to put structures in place to allow for a 5 year old causing an accident?
at what point does the solution to a problem start to completely and utterly outweigh the supposed problem?

rollingscone

usernamegoes wrote: »

What am I missing? Is it not possible to accidentally injure someone or damage their property? I'm not sure what your point is other than you don't like the idea of personal responsibility?

I'm not only talking about cyclists but here's a recent case.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/pedestrian-sued-cyclist-over-injuries-suffered-when-he-was-knocked-down-by-bike-on-footpath-36509443.html

Yes. Lets start charging people to use public spaces. In case they might injure someone.

Why aren't kids paying road tax. How can we capture the value in breathing?

People talk about personal responsibility as if we exist in a vacuum and choose every variable in our lives.

Another grubby legal professional looking for another insurer to fleece does not a sound basis for policy make. If anything the case (aside from ignoring the culpability of our horrific conflict generating infrastructure) shows the need to reconsider our current tort model where private insurance is becoming unfeasible for consumers and for many profit driven insurers who are fleeing the market and look at alternative models such as public third party liability and actual ethical supervision of the legal profession.

Tenzor07

Insurance12 wrote: »

Sue the legal guardians?

So firstly how to do you prove that the child acted in a grossly irresponsible manner which lead to the accident?

And also was the child fully aware that there actions would lead to a collision between themselves and an adult?

Otherwise they cannot be culpable, young children by their very nature are irrational, impetuous and utterly unpredictable, so how do you prove they acted with intent to cause the collision?
As a grown adult you have the greater responsibility to ensure your actions and movement do not cross the path of the child so as to cause an incident...

So if you can't prove culpability of the child then legally you haven't a leg to stand on so to speak.

Tenzor07

rollingscone wrote: »

Yes. Lets start charging people to use public spaces. In case they might injure someone.
Why aren't kids paying road tax. How can we capture the value in breathing?
People talk about personal responsibility as if we exist in a vacuum and choose every variable in our lives.
Another grubby legal professional looking for another insurer to fleece does not a sound basis for policy make. If anything the case (aside from ignoring the culpability of our horrific conflict generating infrastructure) shows the need to reconsider our current tort model where private insurance is becoming unfeasible for consumers and for many profit driven insurers who are fleeing the market and look at alternative models such as public third party liability and actual ethical supervision of the legal profession.

Ireland is turning into a really horrible litigious society, not far behind America i'd say!

Someone is always to blame for whatever misfortune should happen to us, slipped in the supermarket(because you ignored the wet floor sign).. Claim!... Bus driver had to hit the brakes and you hit your leg or something (because you didn't hold the handrail).. Claim!... Tripped up on the footpath(because you weren't looking).. Claim!

peteb2

Insurance12 wrote:

Come on now, I commute everywhere and an accident at speed be it on ice or any other reason could really hurt someone, is wanting to get insurance for protection that much of issue? I mean the story of the old man in Dublin and seeing a woman go down on black ice recently made me think it would be a good idea as I realise going into someone at speed can do them and me serious damage and would like cover I am not saying it should be mandatory just I would like to get it.

Your contents cover will give you personal public liability will cover it . Happened to someone I know. Went through a red light. Hit pedestrian. Broken jaw. Household contents policy picked up cost.

Fighting Tao

I’m starting to think this thread is a wind up. It’s getting ridiculous.

Lumen

The only purpose of car insurance is to discourage people from crashing by increasing their premium. If minor accidents were much more painful then we would be able to socialise the human costs of accidents through taxes.

Fortunately crashing a bicycle hurts a lot, so we don't need insurance.

Kaisr Sose

Lumen wrote: »

The only purpose of car insurance is to discourage people from crashing by increasing their premium. If minor accidents were much more painful then we would be able to socialise the human costs of accidents through taxes.

Fortunately crashing a bicycle hurts a lot, so we don't need insurance.

How does this theory provide for damage to property (other car/a wall etc?)

Lusk_Doyle

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ok, i'll play...

So you're a pretty unfortunate cyclist, you scrape a parked car, are you going to write down your insurance details and leave them on the windshield?
So off you toddle happy as larry that your 50 quid insurance will pay out for say €350 worth of paint damage..
Then the next month you knock the mirror of a Merc while filtering in traffic, and boy they ain't cheap! So another €700 for the mirror...
Wow you're really clocking up the claims eh?

So insurance company says, renewal time, oh €750 for the year please... Ah but my bicycle is worth €500... Opps!

Apples with oranges. You ain't insuring the bike.

Tenzor07

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Apples with oranges. You ain't insuring the bike.

Yea though the guy was talking about bicycle insurance which offers the same liability cover as motor insurance...

usernamegoes

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ireland is turning into a really horrible litigious society, not far behind America i'd say!

Someone is always to blame for whatever misfortune should happen to us, slipped in the supermarket(because you ignored the wet floor sign).. Claim!... Bus driver had to hit the brakes and you hit your leg or something (because you didn't hold the handrail).. Claim!... Tripped up on the footpath(because you weren't looking).. Claim!

There's a middle ground. If you or yours cause injury or damage to another though your negligence then you should pay. Way should the injured party pay? Now of course we need to look at the concept of what constitutes negligence. I would not be in favor of "Contents Hot" on coffee cups or that kind of thing

But I don't see what's controversial about the belief that if you for example cycle on the footpath and run into a pedestrian and injure them and break their expensive watch that the pedestrian should have to pay for it even though they did nothing wrong (assuming they were just walking along and didn't contribute to the accident.) or if your child throws a tantrum in a restaurant runs off and knocks over a tea pot scalding the diner and spilling it on their laptop breaking it. Why should they be out of pocket? Why should the restaurant's insurance have to pay?

magicbastarder

partly because that's probably one of the very things the restaurant takes out insurance to cover?
anyway, what's the alternative? toddler insurance?

anyway, even if you accept all the above, i can't see how third party insurance for cyclists would ever be anything but a $50 solution to a $5 problem. the cost to society of not having it is a fraction of the cost there would be if it was ever introduced (as mandatory).

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: and I am sure I have been one of those who made this error. The thread asked about insurance for cyclists and where to get it or could it be gotten as the OP wants to protect themselves against a financial outlay if they cause a massive accident.

Several threads have detailed why mandatory insurance for cyclists and pedestrians is a bad idea. This thread is getting close to that line of discussion again and it is just a mess to moderate and deal with as people don't seem to understand why motor insurance was made mandatory.

Lets focus on where the OP can get insurance, if it is even possible and why they should or should not do this.