just an observation. ** MOD NOTE POST #1 **

Hunter456

same with the epidemic with fish poaching people are sick and tired of reporting issues on their local river's and lakes being cleaned out by foreign nationals bold as brass posting picture's of fish IFI sitting on their holes doing nothing and these people are laughing and singing as they walk back to their car with a bag load of fish not a care in the world, people are sick and tired of their sport being cleaned out by greedy bastards and people within both sports are policing their own waters and deer stalking ground who else is going to do it. i think some of the comments were out of frustration and anger that people feel helpless.

Kat1170

Said it before, and I'll say it again.

Take cash out of the equation, all monies to go through bank acc's.

It worked for the problems they had with metal being stolen for scrap in London, it will work for deer here.

ojaoja

I'm not from ireland but live here for last 13 years! I do fishing and hunting here ! Newer hunt or fish anything out of season ! We not all the same 😉

Hunter456

ojaoja wrote: »

I'm not from ireland but live here for last 13 years! I do fishing and hunting here ! Newer hunt or fish anything out of season ! We not all the same ��

never said ye were all the same but its happening.

J.R.

I know we are a much smaller country that the UK but something along these lines may help

National Wildlife Crime Unit

http://www.nwcu.police.uk/

Grizzly 45

Kat1170 wrote: »

Said it before, and I'll say it again.

Take cash out of the equation, all monies to go through bank acc's.

It worked for the problems they had with metal being stolen for scrap in London, it will work for deer here.

Still get paid cash for scrap every time I sell my spent brass...So it's not necessarily the cure-all either.Get the money sent to a brother,wife, granny,etc.."Cuz I aint good wit de figurin and money Boss!"

Kat1170

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Still get paid cash for scrap every time I sell my spent brass...So it's not necessarily the cure-all either.Get the money sent to a brother,wife, granny,etc.."Cuz I aint good wit de figurin and money Boss!"

Yeah, those spent cases are the equivalent of the lad that sells one or two deer a year, not what we are talking about. Very few are going to let the fûckers getting 10,20 or even 30 grand a year put it through their bank account. And even if they do the banks are obliged to report it to revenue.
For sure some dealers will still pay certain clients out the back door, but it would make it very awkward for them to do so.

Grizzly 45

Next question is going to be, are there genuinely people making that kind of money of 10t030 k plus a year from poaching?Are they an exception to the rule or what is the "average" income from deer poaching here?Simply said ,the maths doesn't add up.Either that or there is a hell of a lot of deer in Ireland...

Even taking a payment of an average of 175 euros[very generous]and an average of 20,000.Would be 114 deer per season.Poaching every day of the season[181 days].Shoot 1.2 deer a day.

Think it might be more an atypical story of everyone making that sort of money in that game.
Revenue, are they going to be that interested??If we have drug dealing scumbags flaunting it in everyone's face with their wealth, Revenue and AGS policy seem to be 2"bide your time and give them plenty of rope and planks so they build their own scaffold and hang themselves in a sure thing."IOW big money and a solid case.20k a week or month...No problem,20 k a year.... meh maybe once in awhile to keep the peasants in line...:rolleyes:

ayagerard

Kat1170 wrote: »

Yeah, those spent cases are the equivalent of the lad that sells one or two deer a year, not what we are talking about. Very few are going to let the fûckers getting 10,20 or even 30 grand a year put it through their bank account. And even if they do the banks are obliged to report it to revenue.
For sure some dealers will still pay certain clients out the back door, but it would make it very awkward for them to do so.

yes sir i agree with you but restaurant takes cash pays cash game dealer gets cash pays cash ( poacher ) gets cash , hunter gets cheque, pays tax and balances the books poacher sells 20 , hunter sells 2 , what goes in the front door comes out the front door , what goes in the back comes out the back like the horse meat scandal who have we heard that has gone to jail for thathttps://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/icons/icon8.png , have you seen the prices of venison for sale in ireland over the counter to take home and cook , or the prices in a restaurant have a look on the net ( venison prices ireland ) i am only surprised why restaurants selling venison qualify for a vat reduction some one should suggest this to veradcar and let him loose on this like the dole cheats

zeissman

There are some guys making big Money. I know of one poacher who had 25 animals shot in one week.
All reds. That would amount to €4375.
There was a guy caught here recently. He had 8 reds in the back of the jeep.

ayagerard

zeissman wrote: »

There are some guys making big Money. I know of one poacher who had 25 animals shot in one week.
All reds. That would amount to €4375.
There was a guy caught here recently. He had 8 reds in the back of the jeep.

i only wonder how much of that was a cheque, now do the return s through a retail outlet 25 x 350 kg live weight killout 170kg 12 euro a kg shall we say now boys the figures are getting big here 4375 is only a spit in the river
and i cant understand why this cant finance it own regulation with in the npws
25x170x12=51,000 hard to believe isn't it and that's only one week these guys operate 20 weeks a year at least if not more
20 x 4375=87500 before tax ????? 1000 for diesel 5oo for ammo new van or 4x4 every year 4-5000 still i cant spend it all

stevep1018

So ladies and gents what are we legally going to do to stop these poachers.im pissed of now cos just got word of 2 guys up the hill again Monday night possibly in the same silver rav 4 we spotted Saturday night.local farmer told me the same guys were around Monday night near his rented land and fired 2 shots.he was afraid to approach so was out early this morning and spotted a van in the same land and two men dragging two deer up the field but no shots were fired.he couldn't get the number plates but after a bit of digging,I now know where these men are coming from and now I'm looking for advice on how we are going to deal with this.im pissed off that I can't get 1******* deer for my freezer and these undesirables are making money and ruining my hunting spots.this same farmer has told me that he wants a break from anyone coming in now for a shot.WELL DONE POACHERS.are we fighting a losing battle on this.who can we get to listen to our problems.i will personally bring them or anyone else that wants to see how bad this problem really is around here with their own eyes.

sniperman

thanks all for the replies,and yes, as above,how is this going to be stopped?

Kat1170

A call to the guards reporting something other than poaching, something serious perhaps . When they turn up lights flashing they'll catch them.

Something along the lines of ...

Man calls guards to report robbery in progress, no guards available for an hour or more. He hangs up. Calls back a few minutes later " its alright guard I've shot them" 5 minutes later 4 squad cars screech to a stop outside, guard says, I thought you shot them, man says, I thought you said there were no guards available.

You get the idea, just watch from a distance though, don't wait around for the guards.

No violence, no criminal damage, no one hurt. Guards might not actually do anything but it'll put the frighteners on the scumbags ..... hopefully.

solarwinds

So now the farmer wants a break from people shooting his land and the only person this affects is the legitimate hunter. I cant see the poachers paying much heed to his wishes. So again the law abiding are punished, while the criminals keep counting the cash.

Grizzly 45

zeissman wrote: »

There are some guys making big Money. I know of one poacher who had 25 animals shot in one week.
All reds. That would amount to €4375.
There was a guy caught here recently. He had 8 reds in the back of the jeep.

Not necessarily true either...One GD told me, if someone could breed a deer with a 2mile long sirlion and backstrap and filet and nothing else they would be wealthy men.That is to them the gold.The rest is just so much extra sugar. Think about that one.Dunno what is a carcass making these days,or is it by weight?Last time I sold the one and only carcass it was 100 euros.So how much is a GD and then your restaurant and supermarket butcher making on add up?

BTW, as a hunter, I make a point never to order game in a restaurant.You have no idea who shot whatever, and how well they butchered it out, even with "certified game handling qualifications".Just a quirk with me.

Busy buchail that fellah.That's 3.5 deer a day.Dunno how they do it...The deer around me are gone if they see a match being lit not to mind a jacklight.
Not doubting your story, but is every and any poacher making that kind of money?

So to recap; The problems are;

1] It isn't being taken seriously as a crime, by the law, the judiciary or our NPWS.[Unless it happens to be the Kerry or Phoenix park herd]or politicians for various reasons[Excluding chacters like Jackie from Kerry.]

2]There is no real deterrent to anyone caught be they GD or poacher, even loss of rifle, or vehicles...If they are making that sort of money, it's easily replaced.

3]Our organisations see this as a money spinner to fleece the law-abiding and have no inclination to pay any or as little as possible to the govt to fund anti-poaching.

4]It obviously is a "cash and aisey money" operation that will not go away unless the Revenue or the cash aspect is utterly removed from the equation.

5] Farmers don't see the value of deer as an extra cash crop or Coilte neither.If we have Coilte officials saying things like"one deer is too many in Ireland."

6]Revenue/CAB would consider these characters small fish in the big picture of dodgy things in our great little country.

The solution is simple and within a ministers power.BAN the sale of wild deer on a commercial basis for at least five years, and see what happens. In that time conduct the national herd survey,to see what is going on out there.If there is such a demand for deer, farmed deer would be a potential boom agriculture niche to fill the demand.But that sounds like work and common sense.Two things not very common here.

zeissman

I know a fella who sold 3 reds recently and got 400 sterling from a N Ireland game dealer. Which probably works out at 450 euro ie 150 euro per animal. These animals were shot legally by the way.
There are about 5 or 6 poachers in our area who are into it in a big way. These guys do have hand held thermal imaging units for spotting deer and the proper night scopes for shooting them. There are no lamps involved so they are hard to catch. They shoot the animals at night and pick them up in daylight. They have deer licences and the proper firearms.
Most farmers up here see deer as pests and they don't really care how they are shot.
The local npws are turning a blind eye to it as well and when the guards do catch someone the npws are reluctant to prosecute.
If they banned the sale of venison here it wouldn't stop poaching in donegal or any other county close to the border as it's all going into N Ireland. Guys up here are still shooting and selling Woodcock across the border.

electrichunter

i dont mind any lad selling a carcass but whats going on is scandalous, they will totally decimate the herd in ireland and it will take years to build up again , the authorities will act when its to late . none of them are hunters if u shoot deer at night . why dont they set up decoys like in the states and catch them in the act ,then get revenue involved as if i being employed per say and playing music on the side for cash if then get caught they say you play every night of the week at say 100 thats 700 p week so heres the tax bill for same multiplied by x no of years plus penalties , so ur looking at a hefty bill and thats the way they operate . the onus is on you to prove otherwise .

stevep1018

Out last night foxing.got 2(at last).met no poachers but someone was shooting in garavane Wednesday night as local man found remains of two deer with 4 shots fired from two guns he said the previous night.ive informed all my friends, and owners of my permissions to keep details of vehicles and times of shots going off and lamps seen.i won't rest untill I piss everyone of you poachers off so much you duck off.whatever it takes....... legally.lol

electrichunter

stevep1018 wrote: »

Out last night foxing.got 2(at last).met no poachers but someone was shooting in garavane Wednesday night as local man found remains of two deer with 4 shots fired from two guns he said the previous night.ive informed all my friends, and owners of my permissions to keep details of vehicles and times of shots going off and lamps seen.i won't rest untill I piss everyone of you poachers off so much you duck off.whatever it takes....... legally.lol

i wish u best of luck i might also take a drive tonight and see whats going on up the hills as i have a company van for night and i will have the hi vis on so they will **** themselves

Hunter456

stevep1018 wrote: »

Out last night foxing.got 2(at last).met no poachers but someone was shooting in garavane Wednesday night as local man found remains of two deer with 4 shots fired from two guns he said the previous night.ive informed all my friends, and owners of my permissions to keep details of vehicles and times of shots going off and lamps seen.i won't rest untill I piss everyone of you poachers off so much you duck off.whatever it takes....... legally.lol

Best of luck I must take a trip over there some night to see for my self. But on a serious note your doing the right thing once you have license plate numbers hand them into your local gardai and stress you have seen these vehicles acting strangely and could be possible robbers