"We don't want Scientology in our town" - Hypocrisy?

BattleCorp

gandalf wrote: »

Is it run by the cult of Scientology?

Nope.

But there are two issues here.

Is the problem with the drug treatment centre or with Scientology?

Ursus reckoned both are issues and I gave an example of my small town having a drug treatment centre and how it's not causing problems.

Macker1

Of no benefit to local community and very dubious to be even setting up in such a location. No way should it be allowed to happen. Ballivor needs support against this Sciencetology mumbo jumbo cultism.

DEFTLEFTHAND

All three of the Abrahamic faiths have had positive impacts on the planet as well as bad. Think of the genuine charitable work carried out across the world by people and organisations associated with Judaism, Chritianity and Islam.

Whos to say that Church of Scientology aren't also capable of doing good.


Just playing Devil's advocate here.

gandalf

BattleCorp wrote: »

Nope.

But there are two issues here.

Is the problem with the drug treatment centre or with Scientology?

Ursus reckoned both are issues and I gave an example of my small town having a drug treatment centre and how it's not causing problems.

I'm reading the reports and their problem is indeed with both issues. I live close to the place the cult bought in Firhouse and there is shock and disgust that they were allowed in. Like Ballivor we only found out at the last minute that the cult had bought the facility. The fact that this parasitic organision is involved would be enough for me.

I'm not sure what capacity that treatment centre close to you has but I would hazard a guess to say its probably not 54 beds. That seems totally out of preportion for a town of 1700 people.

gandalf

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Whos to say that Church of Scientology aren't also capable of doing good.


Just playing Devil's advocate here.

The evidence shows that cult of Scientology only exists to line the pockets of it's highest members. Sure Hubbard said the easiest way to make money would be to start a religion.

Ursus Horribilis

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Whos to say that Church of Scientology aren't also capable of doing good.


Just playing Devil's advocate here.

Watch Going Clear by Alex Gibney and then make your mind up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_Clear_(film)

Aside from exploiting and brainwashing its members, it has some very dubious anti scientific beliefs. They don't believe in people going to counselling or therapists. They don't even want members to use painkillers. Their drug rehabilitation centres aren't like conventional ones either so we're not comparing like with like.

Omackeral

splinter65 wrote: »

I assume if they want to be married by a priest that they are regular mass goers.

You would assume wrong. I doubt all the other Catholics that get married are regular mass goers either though. Anyway, this has nothing to do with the nonsense that is Scientology.

BattleCorp

gandalf wrote: »

I'm reading the reports and their problem is indeed with both issues. I live close to the place the cult bought in Firhouse and there is shock and disgust that they were allowed in. Like Ballivor we only found out at the last minute that the cult had bought the facility. The fact that this parasitic organision is involved would be enough for me.

I'm not sure what capacity that treatment centre close to you has but I would hazard a guess to say its probably not 54 beds. That seems totally out of preportion for a town of 1700 people.

Not sure how many beds exactly but it's over 30. My town has approx. 3500 people.

Why do you think it is out of proportion for that size town? What difference does the size of the town make?

And another point.... People are free to worship whoever or whatever they want. Religious freedom is guaranteed in the Constitution. Why should a religion have to get local approval before they buy a facility....e.g. your Firhouse example? Are the Scientology idiots not entitled to set up somewhere to practice their faith?

Pero_Bueno

gandalf wrote: »

No they are right Scientology is a cult and a scam. They are right to want it driven from their community. We already have enough problems trying to extract one cult from our society rather than letting an even bigger bunch of whackjobs free reign to get their claws into vulnerable people!

Bigger bunch of whackjobs ?
Who are you talking about ? Scientology ? they have about 50K members - globally.

How many billion christians are there ? - or Muslims ?

gandalf

BattleCorp wrote: »

Not sure how many beds exactly but it's over 30. My town has approx. 3500 people.

Why do you think it is out of proportion for that size town? What difference does the size of the town make?

It makes a massive difference. Also is that Rehab centre HSE affiliated near you?

And another point.... People are free to worship whoever or whatever they want. Religious freedom is guaranteed in the Constitution. Why should a religion have to get local approval before they buy a facility....e.g. your Firhouse example? Are the Scientology idiots not entitled to set up somewhere to practice their faith?

Scientology is not a recognised religion in Ireland. They are a company.

They are certainly not welcome peddling their dangerous faux medical cures to children in Firhouse.

Pero_Bueno

Pero_Bueno wrote: »

Bigger bunch of whackjobs ?
Who are you talking about ? Scientology ? they have about 50K members - globally.

50k globally? You're going by early 2000 guesstimated figures then.

Oldtree

BattleCorp wrote: »

Nope.

But there are two issues here.

Is the problem with the drug treatment centre or with Scientology?

Ursus reckoned both are issues and I gave an example of my small town having a drug treatment centre and how it's not causing problems.

This isn't really a drug treatment center as drug treatment centers are known. There us no proven medical studies that prove their off the wall methods work. It a place where vulnerable people can be easily brainwashed. Careful now....
That's why thee is a problem with both this so called drug treatment center and scientology.

kyote00

http://www.narconon.org/drug-rehab/new-life-detox.html

It doesn't look too bad.... a few vitamin pills, a sauna and you are done...

Wonder how a heroin user will react when they give him/her a haliborange

Canis Lupus

Sonics2k wrote: »

Quite a difference really.

Scientology is a known scam, which thoroughly relies on your ability to donate money to them, your car, house etc, in order to 'progress' through the religion.

In comparison, and while I'm no fan of Islam, Christianity, Judaism or any other religion, all they really ask is for you to believe their respective Holy books and follow their faith.

Not as popular in Ireland but it's a bit of a fallacy to claim christianity isn't in it for the money when you have pastors in the US with private jets and mansions and personal wealth in the hundreds of millions. http://www.etinside.com/?p=539

EDIT: Historically catholicism also had plenty of monetarily dubious things such as buying indulgences etc.

BattleCorp

gandalf wrote: »

It makes a massive difference. Also is that Rehab centre HSE affiliated near you?

I don't know if it is affiliated to the HSE. I do know that we never have any trouble in our town because of it. I'd actually guess that a lot of people in the town don't actually know that it is there.

Scientology is not a recognised religion in Ireland. They are a company.

I'm not a cheerleader for Scientology. I think they are idiots but whether they are recognised or not, that doesn't stop them from being a religion.

The fact that they are a registered company doesn't make any material difference.

The GAA are a registered company but that doesn't stop them from being a sporting organisation.

They are certainly not welcome peddling their dangerous faux medical cures to children in Firhouse.

I've no idea what they do in Firhouse (or anywhere else for that matter) so I can't comment on that.

Macy0161

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Aside from exploiting and brainwashing its members, it has some very dubious anti scientific beliefs.

Same as a lot of religions so. Why do you think the Catholic Church is so reluctant to give up schools, and indoctrination in schools? I would consider creationism anti-scientific, which lots of christians and christian churches believe in. And as previously mention - transubstantiation!

inforfun

anti-Scientology and autism activist Fiona O’Leary

That is an odd combination.

weldoninhio

JCX BXC wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/ballivor-scientology-protest-3802998-Jan2018/



RTE also had quite a bit about this piece on the news.

Am I the only one seeing the blatant hypocrisy here? Imagine if a bunch of locals turned out to protest against a drug rehabilitation centre being set up by members of a mosque? Imagine an "anti-islamic" activist who wasn't abused by all media?

Scientology is a terrible religion no doubt, however religions such as Christianity and Islam have caused massive issues around the world, with many deaths, abuses and general promotion of backward practises for centuries. However, these are actively promoted in Ireland, in state funded schools, many drug rehabilitation centres etc.

One rule for some and another for the rest?

Its drug rehabilitation treatment has been described as "medically unsafe", "quackery" and "medical fraud", while academic and medical experts have dismissed its educational program as containing "factual errors in basic concepts such as physical and mental effects, addiction and even spelling".

"Narconon's facilities have been the location of several deaths, some of which have been linked to a lack of trained medical personnel on site. There are no independently recognized studies that confirm the efficacy of the Narconon program."

Yes, what hypocrites for not wanting to let this facility go ahead.

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

50k globally? You're going by early 2000 guesstimated figures then.

Maybe they are going by David Miscavage's fathers figures. He was interviewed on the Joe Rogan Show last year. Although I think he said 45k if i remember rightly.

weldoninhio

inforfun wrote: »

That is an odd combination.

The Scientologists tried to sell her a "cure" for her childs autism. A few vitamin tablets and 5/7 hours a day in a sauna.

igCorcaigh

JCX BXC wrote: »

Scientology is a terrible religion

Scientology is a scammy but successful business model using the veneer of religion / self help. It is a sham.

It is to religion what homeopathy is to medicine.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I believe the drug rehab clinics being set up by the Scientology crowd is a smoke screen to recruit vulnerable and weak drug users in to the church. It is not being set up for the good of those attending but for the good of those who own the centre.

I wonder what their reaction would be if they were told “yes you can set up a rehab centre here but we want an independent observer of our choosing to have free access at any time to carry out spot checks etc on the centre” I’d be willing to bet it would be refused.

sbsquarepants

Verpiss dich wrote: »

1. Scientologists believe there was a dictator of the Galactic Confederacy named Xenu?? Uh, SURE, Scientology...

Did you hear the one about the carpenter who was also a ghost and his own da, well I suppose he had to be his own da cos his ma was a virgin, anyway, he died but he didn't die and now he's everywhere all at once....

Verpiss dich wrote: »

2. Scientologists believe Xenu gathered billions of beings from across the universe, brought them to Earth, placed them around volcanoes, and killed them all with hydrogen bombs?? Pshhhh!

There's this bloke right, well he's not really a bloke he has horns and goats feet, but that's not important, what's important is he imprisons people in a giant lake of fire.....

Verpiss dich wrote: »

3. Scientology believes lost/twisted spirits, known as "body thetans", are responsible for all the negative feelings and emotions that exist within your life?! Um, WTF..

Idiots, it's clearly goat boy above - he's a bit fúcked up because he encourages people to do bad things, but then for some reason he punishes them for doing them, mental....

Verpiss dich wrote: »

4. Scientology believes in a doctrine called "Fair Game", which justifies doing WHATEVER IS NECESSARY, including blackmail, harassment, and various other forms of punishment, to anyone who criticizes or is viewed as a "threat" to Scientology

Amateurs, break out the rack and get an auld bonfire going, then we'll talk...

Verpiss dich wrote: »

5. Scientology forces members to isolate themselves from friends and family who do not follow the teachings of Scientology and OKAY this is literally just a cult nevermind

Cult you say, hmm, do this, do that, thou shalt, thou shalt not, now can we have some money - that kind of thing. Jaysus, sounds outrageous. How do people fall for this shít?

sbsquarepants

splinter65 wrote: »

Your brother and his boyfriend aren’t relying on the RCC to marry them, they can get married any day if the week anywhere else.
The Sacrament of Matrimony is refused to many people.
It’s refused to married people who haven’t been granted a church annulment.
It’s refused to people who aren’t Christians even though one of the couple may be a Catholic
It’s refused to people who lack the capacity to appreciate the sanctity of marriage.
As the Sacrament if Matrimony is intertwined with the requirement to welcome whatever children may be issue of the marriage, and biologically same sex couples cannot conceive children, then RCC refuses same sex couples.
This is not shunning gay couples.
It’s having rules.
You said gay people are shunned in Ireland today in RCC.
They aren’t. Many parishes including our own have a gay group that meet and pray on a regular basis.
Has your brother and his boyfriend been turned away from mass?
I assume if they want to be married by a priest that they are regular mass goers.

Sounds pretty much like a good old fashioned shunning to me!

gandalf wrote: »

The evidence shows that cult of Scientology only exists to line the pockets of it's highest members. Sure Hubbard said the easiest way to make money would be to start a religion.

Sure they have a few nice buildings and a few bob in their back pockets - but they've quite a way to go before they have their own country housing half the worlds priceless artworks. The bastards even charge you in to look at it!

kyote00

There are many parallels with the church here over the decades and the scientology and how it attempts mass/mind control, wealth accumulation and the 'squirrel busters' approaches.

There are a few unusual things about this one:

- the building was originally a national school. Passed into the private sector, was successful in gaining planning permission for a nursing home

- developer put some hoarding on the outside of the school but there has not been any other works carried out

- original owners then sold the building to Narconon - who do not need to apply for planning for change of use.

I can't imagine that without major renovation that the building is any way comfortable either as a nursing home or drug rehab.

My best guess is that the original developer found that the cost of reburb was likely to be very large in order to be able to compete with other nursing homes in the area (many new bulilds) and then sought and found the opportunity to offload it.

If everyone parks the scientology outrage and focus on the medical efficacy of Narconon approach then its to easy to see why it might be unsuitable for that location.

There is a new national school and community creche across the road from it. Is it really a good idea to have heroine/cocaine/meth/crack addicts across the road ?

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Did you hear the one about the carpenter who was also a ghost and his own da, well I suppose he had to be his own da cos his ma was a virgin, anyway, he died but he didn't die and now he's everywhere all at once....



There's this bloke right, well he's not really a bloke he has horns and goats feet, but that's not important, what's important is he imprisons people in a giant lake of fire.....



Idiots, it's clearly goat boy above - he's a bit fúcked up because he encourages people to do bad things, but then for some reason he punishes them for doing them, mental....



Amateurs, break out the rack and get an auld bonfire going, then we'll talk...



Cult you say, hmm, do this, do that, thou shalt, thou shalt not, now can we have some money - that kind of thing. Jaysus, sounds outrageous. How do people fall for this shít?

SterlingArcher

Sonics2k wrote: »

Quite a difference really.

Scientology is a known scam, which thoroughly relies on your ability to donate money to them, your car, house etc, in order to 'progress' through the religion.

In comparison, and while I'm no fan of Islam, Christianity, Judaism or any other religion, all they really ask is for you to believe their respective Holy books and follow their faith.

Smoking is addictive and bad for your health. You don't protest shops selling smokes to people. Why?

When you answer this you will have the answer to why they should be allowed practice their prey on vulnerable people religion.

witchgirl26

BattleCorp wrote: »

What are the locals concerned about? Is it the Scientology aspect or is it the fact that there will be a drug treatment facility in their town?

I gather from the piece that was on the news last night that they are concerned by the fact that planning permission was granted for a nursing home in the town and now it could be a drug treatment facility. One woman noted that they needed a nursing home for local older people a lot more than a drug treatment facility.

Also the fact that it's right in the middle of schools and local amenities and they wanted to understand how this would work. To be fair on that score I could understand it - having a drug treatment facility right in the middle of the primary and secondary schools might be a bit of bad planning.

The Scientology bit was also big as they didn't want it in their town.

TomSweeney

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Any comparisons to Christianity or Islam are moot. I'm no fan of either, surprising as that might be to some, but they are established religions and if you think you're going to eradicate then by being a childish spiteful cnut you'll get both barrels from me. We don't need to import this Scientology shîte though, no siree Bob.

We don't need to import Islam either, but say that and you jump on people calling them a racist.. so whats the difference ?

Do you think the world would have the same opinion on Islam if the vast majority of Muslims were white Australians/East Europeans/Nordics/Americans - but all else was the same ?

Pepefrogok

Discodog wrote: »

If you want to stop being a Muslim - no problem.

If you want to stop being a Catholic - no problem.

If you want to stop being a Scientologist - good luck because you will need it.

Really cannot believe this post, and 8 whole people thanked it! What is the world coming to? People literally get murdered for leaving Islam, a worrying ammoun of Muslims in the UK believe in death for apostasy ffs.

"in six of the 20 countries where there are adequate samples for analysis, at least half of those who favor making Islamic law the official law also support executing apostates.

Taking the life of those who abandon Islam is most widely supported in Egypt (86%) and Jordan (82%). Roughly two-thirds who want sharia to be the law of the land also back this penalty in the Palestinian territories (66%). In the other countries surveyed in the Middle East-North Africa region, fewer than half take this view.

In the South Asian countries of Afghanistan and Pakistan, strong majorities of those who favor making Islamic law the official law of the land also approve of executing apostates (79% and 76%, respectively). However, in Bangladesh far fewer (44%) share this view.

A majority of Malaysian Muslims (62%) who want to see sharia as their country’s official law also support taking the lives of those who convert to other faiths. But fewer take this position in neighboring Thailand (27%) and Indonesia (18%)."

weldoninhio

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Really cannot believe this post, and 8 whole people thanked it! What is the world coming to? People literally get murdered for leaving Islam, a worrying ammoun of Muslims in the UK believe in death for apostasy ffs.

in six of the 20 countries where there are adequate samples for analysis, at least half of those who favor making Islamic law the official law also support executing apostates.

Taking the life of those who abandon Islam is most widely supported in Egypt (86%) and Jordan (82%). Roughly two-thirds who want sharia to be the law of the land also back this penalty in the Palestinian territories (66%). In the other countries surveyed in the Middle East-North Africa region, fewer than half take this view.

In the South Asian countries of Afghanistan and Pakistan, strong majorities of those who favor making Islamic law the official law of the land also approve of executing apostates (79% and 76%, respectively). However, in Bangladesh far fewer (44%) share this view.

A majority of Malaysian Muslims (62%) who want to see sharia as their country’s official law also support taking the lives of those who convert to other faiths. But fewer take this position in neighboring Thailand (27%) and Indonesia (18%).

Maybe this is a better way of explaining it.


If you want to stop being a Muslim in Ireland - no problem.

If you want to stop being a Catholic in Ireland - no problem.

If you want to stop being a Scientologist in Ireland - good luck because you will need it.