Anti #MeToo letter defends men's right to 'steal a kiss'

Wombatman

More than 100 prominent French women from all walks of life caused a major stir this week after publishing an editorial in Le Monde, France’s newspaper of record, arguing that the recent backlash against sexual harassment had become a “witch hunt.” The signers included the 14-time Caesar Award nominee Catherine Deneuve, as well as Catherine Robbe-Grillet, a comedian that Vanity Fair once dubbed the country’s most famous dominatrix.

“Men have been punished… when all they did was touch someone’s knee or try to steal a kiss,” the women write. “The haste to send the ‘pigs’ to the abattoir, far from liberating women, in reality serves the interests of the enemies of sexual liberty, the religious extremists, the worst reactionaries.” (The French equivalent of #MeToo is #BalanceTonPorc, or “squeal on your pig.”)

riffmongous

Wombatman wrote: »

More than 100 prominent French women from all walks of life caused a major stir this week after publishing an editorial in Le Monde, France’s newspaper of record, arguing that the recent backlash against sexual harassment had become a “witch hunt.” The signers included the 14-time Caesar Award nominee Catherine Deneuve, as well as Catherine Robbe-Grillet, a comedian that Vanity Fair once dubbed the country’s most famous dominatrix.

“Men have been punished… when all they did was touch someone’s knee or try to steal a kiss,” the women write. “The haste to send the ‘pigs’ to the abattoir, far from liberating women, in reality serves the interests of the enemies of sexual liberty, the religious extremists, the worst reactionaries.” (The French equivalent of #MeToo is #BalanceTonPorc, or “squeal on your pig.”)

Hmm, she was also defending that rapist Polanski a few months ago..

Beefy78

There's a joke in here somewhere about 'kissing frogs'

The_Valeyard

Beefy78 wrote: »

There's a joke in here somewhere about 'kissing frogs'

Disney told me they turn into Princes

alan partridge aha

riffmongous wrote: »

Hmm, she was also defending that rapist Polanski a few months ago..

Remember Meryl Streep

fatknacker

Says the society that cultured the likes of Pepe le Pew.

riffmongous

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Remember Meryl Streep

What a hypocrite

daithi1970

Forward Volatility Agreement wrote: »

So long as it's not in the workplace, people should have the right to attempt to seduce. Once rejected however it's time to accept that rejection.

One man's attempted seduction may be someone else's assault..context and circustance is everything..

qwerty ui op

Deneuve has moved to the far right, she made a complete fool of herself lately on french radio.
She wants the right to feel wanted walking down the street but she's not going to be exercising that right in rough areas

Harry Palmr

This is why a bit of me admires the French, when not surrendering to the Germans they have a contrariness which can act as a break on group think. I'd sooner get lamped by a French woman for being "fresh" than listen to a hashtag obsessed Yank lecturing me about how evil I am.

qwerty ui op

This is about as popular in France as Lucinda Creighton was in Ireland

Wombatman

“The haste to send the ‘pigs’ to the abattoir, far from liberating women, in reality serves the interests of the enemies of sexual liberty, the religious extremists, the worst reactionaries.”

I find this argument interesting though. Could be on the road back to some kind of "Victorian morality"?

Assetbacked

The citizens of the U.S. are in general stupid and over-simplify complex issues. They also are generally self-centered and vacuous. Over here on this side of the World we are not as simple as they are so where we can dismiss the MeToo publicity stunt for the drivel it is, they do not understand that we, as Europeans, do not reduce everything to black and white.

Irish Guitarist

The thing about that #metoo nonsense is you can't label everything with one hashtag. There were women saying "I was raped #metoo" then some other idiot would say "someone in a car wolf whistled at me and called me babe #metoo". So not you too then as it's a completely different situation.

Realt Dearg Sec

Assetbacked wrote: »

The citizens of the U.S. are in general stupid and over-simplify complex issues. They also are generally self-centered and vacuous. Over here on this side of the World we are not as simple as they are so where we can dismiss the MeToo publicity stunt for the drivel it is, they do not understand that we, as Europeans, do not reduce everything to black and white.

Jesus don't put your shoulder out patting yourself on the back so hard.

I don't know... I quite like the idea that some women aren't publicly (through the media or social media) seeking to label the male gender as rapists, perverts, or other negative behaviors. Makes quite a change from the last few months of media reports.

Vladimir Poontang

Polanski is a hero in Hollywood. Remember that next time one of those vacuous ***** like Meryl Streep starts moralising.

Assetbacked

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Jesus don't put your shoulder out patting yourself on the back so hard.

Good response

Beta Ray Bill

Look...

What man here hasn't thrown the washing machine at some young wan on a Boozy night out!?

professore

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know... I quite like the idea that some women aren't publicly (through the media or social media) seeking to label the male gender as rapists, perverts, or other negative behaviors. Makes quite a change from the last few months of media reports.

Now that's sarcasm!

Ficheall

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The thing about that #metoo nonsense is you can't label everything with one hashtag. There were women saying "I was raped #metoo" then some other idiot would say "someone in a car wolf whistled at me and called me babe #metoo". So not you too then as it's a completely different situation.

A friend of mine said to me while that metoo nonsense was at its peak that she had only had two instances that could possibly be called assault and "it makes you wonder if there's something wrong with you".
Which is a little bit terrifying.

bnt

Wombatman wrote: »

I find this argument interesting though. Could be on the road back to some kind of "Victorian morality"?

More like that scene early in The Handmaid's Tale, where

a man is accused of raping a pregnant woman, and is handed over to the handmaids. They kick and beat him to death. It's later revealed that the accusation was false and he was a captured rebel

.

Lollipops23

Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

Stonedpilot

Wombatman wrote: »

More than 100 prominent French women from all walks of life caused a major stir this week after publishing an editorial in Le Monde, France’s newspaper of record, arguing that the recent backlash against sexual harassment had become a “witch hunt.” The signers included the 14-time Caesar Award nominee Catherine Deneuve, as well as Catherine Robbe-Grillet, a comedian that Vanity Fair once dubbed the country’s most famous dominatrix.

“Men have been punished… when all they did was touch someone’s knee or try to steal a kiss,” the women write. “The haste to send the ‘pigs’ to the abattoir, far from liberating women, in reality serves the interests of the enemies of sexual liberty, the religious extremists, the worst reactionaries.” (The French equivalent of #MeToo is #BalanceTonPorc, or “squeal on your pig.”)

Of course it's a witchhunt I mean have you noticed the Metoo campagin very conveniently ignores all the abuse by female pedophiles and perverts out there?. The bias is 100% against men what about female perverts?..

I mean the bias against men is so incredibly biased the media doesn't even report female pedophilia and female perverts.

Here's one lady speaking about female pedophiles to balance the scales a little. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cBSH1JI7Qs


Now be warned, for posting this the pitchforks and the witchhunt will be against you (and me!.) Batten down the hatches!.

Malayalam

Yeah but if every guy who ever tried to steal a kiss with any women ever in the past was to be labeled a sex fiend of some sort, almost all of my male friends and male family members would be labeled as sex fiends for their various sloppy, innocent and foolhardy erotic adventures over their lives, and that would make me some sort of a willing consorter with sex fiends, a harbourer of sex pests, and I don't like where that is going one bit .... Next thing I'll be accused of knowing all along, and not standing up for the sisterhood...and Oh My God...a hashtag will be named after me

Penn

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The thing about that #metoo nonsense is you can't label everything with one hashtag. There were women saying "I was raped #metoo" then some other idiot would say "someone in a car wolf whistled at me and called me babe #metoo". So not you too then as it's a completely different situation.

The thing about the #metoo thing isn't that it was solely about rape or assault, but all forms of sexual harassment, even minor. It was to show how commonplace it is, how it happens to so many women in all industries. How it can happen when someone's trying just to chat up a woman but goes too far, but also as a woman or even young girl is just walking down the street, or sitting on a bus.

It wasn't just about rape or serious assault, but to show how so many women have put up with at least some form of unwanted sexual harassment in their daily lives.

jiltloop

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

There's plenty of overly touchy females as well.

B.A._Baracus

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

Out of curiosity how many men over here have done it?

chrissb8

Assetbacked wrote: »

The citizens of the U.S. are in general stupid and over-simplify complex issues. They also are generally self-centered and vacuous. Over here on this side of the World we are not as simple as they are so where we can dismiss the MeToo publicity stunt for the drivel it is, they do not understand that we, as Europeans, do not reduce everything to black and white.

Bravo, well bloody put. There are shades of grey that Americans don't appreciate. They can be obsessed with being something or being labelled as something. I think Europe are just whatever just be.

Sexual harassment is a complex and big issue that can't be defined as you are or you aren't. I like Americans on an individual level (sometimes) but I think as a collective they are full of s***e.

I enjoy a good conversation with them about this stuff it kinda boggles them that someone could weigh up an argument with a balanced outlook and discuss a topic while respecting each others difference of opinion.

splinter65

jiltloop wrote: »

There's plenty of overly touchy females as well.

There absolutely is.

Realt Dearg Sec

chrissb8 wrote: »

There are shades of grey that Americans don't appreciate.

irony, noun.

Rory28

It all goes back to rules 1 and 2

1. Be attractive

2. Don't not be attractive

Pretty simple stuff guys

Hector Savage

riffmongous wrote: »

Hmm, she was also defending that rapist Polanski a few months ago..

Yep, just like Meryl Streep ... but eh .. Meryl Streep is a "progressive liberal" that is behind the #MeToo movement - also she got into hysterics over Trump so she must be ok right ?

riffmongous

Hector Savage wrote: »

Yep, just like Meryl Streep ... but eh .. Meryl Streep is a "progressive liberal" that is behind the #MeToo movement - also she got into hysterics over Trump so she must be ok right ?

See post number 8.

And sorry but it's starting to smack a bit of whataboutery, Streep is an idiot but she's not the subject of the thread is she

Akrasia

Wombatman wrote: »

More than 100 prominent French women from all walks of life caused a major stir this week after publishing an editorial in Le Monde, France’s newspaper of record, arguing that the recent backlash against sexual harassment had become a “witch hunt.” The signers included the 14-time Caesar Award nominee Catherine Deneuve, as well as Catherine Robbe-Grillet, a comedian that Vanity Fair once dubbed the country’s most famous dominatrix.

“Men have been punished… when all they did was touch someone’s knee or try to steal a kiss,” the women write. “The haste to send the ‘pigs’ to the abattoir, far from liberating women, in reality serves the interests of the enemies of sexual liberty, the religious extremists, the worst reactionaries.” (The French equivalent of #MeToo is #BalanceTonPorc, or “squeal on your pig.”)

Anyone who has ever watched James Bond movies without being outraged is a hypocrite if they get outraged by this

twowheelsonly

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

It really does depend on the nature of 'putting their hands on' you though. A lot of people are quite tactile and will touch others or reach out to others as they're speaking / having drinks / having a laugh etc. Men do it with other men all the time and women do so with women. Somehow though, when men do it to women it becomes a big no-no. IMO a lot of women read far too much into what can often be just friendly gestures.

Feisar

As a young lad that used to collect glasses in a nightclub I lost count of the amount of times females grabbed me by the crotch so I suppose #metoo

professore

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

There seems to be this implication that most men are ok with these dick bosses and guys. We never were and still aren't. Women have kept this a closely guarded secret from men to such an extent that I had to flat out ask my daughter and wife about it to find out anything. From that perspective and for awareness of how common sexual assault is #MeToo was really positive.

The point is that no women will have to put up with an overly touchy male boss or male boss of any sort because he won't hire any women for fear of sexual harassment accusations. Also it's been hijacked by hypocrites within Hollywood - case in point Oprah, Harvey Weinstein's best friend until recently - for political reasons. Nothing brave about that.

professore

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

It really does depend on the nature of 'putting their hands on' you though. A lot of people are quite tactile and will touch others or reach out to others as they're speaking / having drinks / having a laugh etc. Men do it with other men all the time and women do so with women. Somehow though, when men do it to women it becomes a big no-no. IMO a lot of women read far too much into what can often be just friendly gestures.

Women are WAY more touchy feely than men are. I've been touched on the arm, hugged or snuggled up to more times than I can count by women without once agreeing to it. Sometimes I felt uncomfortable. Is that harassment? According to some, yes. I'm not bothered by it as I know the women in question and they are otherwise fine. If I was a woman and saw a payoff or a way to get rid of a boss that stood in the way of my promotion ... Well then all bets are off.

GingerLily

Feisar wrote: »

As a young lad that used to collect glasses in a nightclub I lost count of the amount of times females grabbed me by the crotch so I suppose #metoo

That sounds horrible, sorry to hear that

professore

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Thing is, random men putting their hands on me without my say so does make me really feckin uncomfortable. It's not the same as rape or sexual assault, but it doesn't mean it's ok. No woman should have to put up with an overly touchy boss or men in bars. If this mass hysteria means it doesn't go on as much in the future, so be it.

Out of curiosity how many men over here have done it?

I've never done it as I was raised in the era of the firm handshake. Unless you count ""shifting" as I never actually asked when going in for a the kiss. Of course if she pulled away I didn't insist. Lately I would hug certain close female friends.

wench

twowheelsonly wrote: »

It really does depend on the nature of 'putting their hands on' you though. A lot of people are quite tactile and will touch others or reach out to others as they're speaking / having drinks / having a laugh etc. Men do it with other men all the time and women do so with women. Somehow though, when men do it to women it becomes a big no-no. IMO a lot of women read far too much into what can often be just friendly gestures.

Having someone you just met start pawing at your breasts or trying to lob the gob isn't a friendly gesture.

professore

professore wrote: »

I've never done it as I was raised in the era of the firm handshake. Unless you count ""shifting" as I never actually asked when going in for a the kiss. Of course if she pulled away I didn't insist. Lately I would hug certain close female friends.

Ditto. I'm generally "shy" about touching other people. I will test the "waters" by touching the elbow, wrist, etc on a date or if there's an indication of intimacy. I always felt that touching the "soft" areas was intrusive. A kiss is easily discovered by leaning in and hovering... if she's interested she'll lean in the remainder, otherwise pull back.

But yes, women tend to be more open about touching a man pretty much anywhere without it suggesting an interest... And yet, never wonder why guys get the wrong signals from that touching.

wench

wench wrote: »

Having someone you just met start pawing at your breasts or trying to lob the gob isn't a friendly gesture.

Definitely, Agree... but how often does that actually happen?

I'm curious... where were you when this happened?

wench

Deleted User wrote: »

Definitely, Agree... but how often does that actually happen?

I'm curious... where were you when this happened?

More often than you'd think! Usually in broad daylight sitting reading a book in a park.

wench

wench wrote: »

More often than you'd think! Usually in broad daylight sitting reading a book in a park.

Sitting in a park reading a book... and a guy comes up to grab your breasts? and it happens more often than I think? (I'm thinking it's very rare)

Right now, I'm very skeptical. I can understand it happening in a nightclub or where alcohol is involved but your example seems... unlikely except as a very rare occurrence.

wench

Deleted User wrote: »

Sitting in a park reading a book... and a guy comes up to grab your breasts? and it happens more often than I think? (I'm thinking it's very rare)

Right now, I'm very skeptical. I can understand it happening in a nightclub or where alcohol is involved but your example seems... unlikely except as a very rare occurrence.

Yeah, what would I know, they're only my breasts.
I recall four distinct occasions where it went past the usual sitting too close and following when trying to leave.

wench

wench wrote: »

Yeah, what would I know, they're only my breasts.

I recall four distinct occasions where it went past the usual sitting too close and following when trying to leave.

Ahh ok. It's Not a guy coming over and grabbing your breasts. It's a creepy guy in a park who tries to pick you up and ends up stalking you out of the park.

I can definitely see how that reflects on the normal guys you meet normally...

Stonedpilot

Feisar wrote: »

As a young lad that used to collect glasses in a nightclub I lost count of the amount of times females grabbed me by the crotch so I suppose #metoo

Grab them back by the crotch. You'd have ride 7 nights a week.

wench

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh ok. It's Not a guy coming over and grabbing your breasts. It's a creepy guy in a park who tries to pick you up and ends up stalking you out of the park.

I can definitely see how that reflects on the normal guys you meet normally...

Thanks for dismissing my experience.

The thing is though, it does reflect on the "normal" guys i meet, because when you get creeped on often enough, you start to be suspicious of all approaches.

And I'm sure the men in the parks thought they were normal, they weren't sleezy ould geezers in trenchcoats or whatever stereotype you want to play here

wench

wench wrote: »

Thanks for dismissing my experience.

Thanks for over-reacting to being questioned... :rolleyes:

The thing is though, it does reflect on the "normal" guys i meet, because when you get creeped on often enough, you start to be suspicious of all approaches.

And I'm sure the men in the parks thought they were normal, they weren't sleezy ould geezers in trenchcoats or whatever stereotype you want to play here

Fair enough. You were approached by four guys in parks, refused them and were followed by them as you left. Are these the same guys that grabbed your breasts? or did they just approach you and make you uncomfortable?

Just trying to connect your statements.